There was a time plenty of people thought that. Hindsight is 20/20
Week 5 Heroes and Goats
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There was a time plenty of people thought that. Hindsight is 20/20
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kerouac9
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Plenty of people thought that they'd rather have Kaepernick over Andrew Luck two years ago?
I don't think so.
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kerouac9
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Here's the quote I think you were looking for:
Bucannon played 89% of the defensive snaps last week. I'm not really sure that the best analysis comes immediately after the game (contra game balls).
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why a safety that doesn't defend the pass or get interceptions is a special player. Through the first 21 games of Adrian Wilson's career, he had 1.5 sacks and 5 interceptions. And he didn't start a single game as a rookie.
But I guess a lot of tackles are nice, too.
This isn't to say that Deone Bucannon is a bad player or in the same class as, say, Troy Niklas. But to pretend this guy is Cam Chancellor is not accurate.
juza76
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things are fluid and is possible to change an opinion
i think this scheme doesnt give the opportunity to bucannon to make the plays he did at washington state
i should prefer him playing SS and lettin weatherspoon or fua play the other ILB spot
i know we had 4 win in 5 matches but i think we are allowing too many big plays and we will face great competitor in the second half of the season
i m still not impressed about our defense
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kerouac9
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Maybe because he's playing ILB?
That right, I forgot how Daryl Washington and Karlos Dansby never made special plays.
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Washington and Dansby also played LB their entire careers.
I did not like the pick when Bucannon was selected but he has been very important to the defense.
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kerouac9
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Bucannon has played ILB for a full season and a two training camps.
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kerouac9
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Why are you comparing an ILB to Adrian Wilson??
Because Wilson was an in-the-box safety playing close to the LOS and rushing quite a bit. Also, because I thought it would be charitable, since these are the first 21 games in the careers of Daryl Washington and Karlos Dansby:
Dansby: 8 sacks, 3 INTs
Washington: 3 Sacks, 2 INT
juza76
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Id like To know if he just play this role cause we are bad at ILB and in the case they will get a true and efficient ILB he will move back to his original position
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juza76
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Bucannon doesnt blitz a Lot like them
they want him few yards back in order to stop the run a qb scramble or in some short pass Situation
He rarely drop back in coverage
Difficult for him to put sexy stats
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82CardsGrad
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I could be wrong, but didn't Dansby and Washington play ILB throughout their college careers, whereas Deone played safety and only started playing ILB once he became a Cardinal??
TJ
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Dansby played as a 4-3 OLB to start his career and was a starter out of the gate, which explains the discrepancies in stats.
It's an unfair comparison anyway. ADUB will probably go into the HOF. Neither of those players, nor the majority of the players in the NFL, are that talented.
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kerouac9
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You guys are right. Deone Bucannon is a sui generis butterfly who should be utterly free from any expectations for production or playmaking. He's the best possible player and everything he does is perfect and the best that could be done by any player at any time. No comparison is possible.
Just because Deone Bucannon played over 692 snaps with the defense as a rookie (65% of the total defensive snaps), he's still essentially a rookie. All mistakes are forgiveable and not his fault.
And, no, Brian Urlacher is not a fair comparison, even though Urlacher came in from being a safety in college to an ILB in the NFL and had 10 sacks and 3 INTs through his first 21 games.
And don't you dare bring up Thomas Davis's name, even though he's essentially been a hybrid LB/S for his entire career.
Just because Deone Bucannon played over 692 snaps with the defense as a rookie (65% of the total defensive snaps), he's still essentially a rookie. All mistakes are forgiveable and not his fault.
And, no, Brian Urlacher is not a fair comparison, even though Urlacher came in from being a safety in college to an ILB in the NFL and had 10 sacks and 3 INTs through his first 21 games.
And don't you dare bring up Thomas Davis's name, even though he's essentially been a hybrid LB/S for his entire career.
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lol.
You're so sensitive man. Nobody is saying he's great. But you're saying he sucks. You're the one spewing hyperbole. He's doing well considering that he's being asked to play out of position. Is he as great as HOFers, no. Nobody is. You act like because you compare a HOF player, at a similar juncture, doing similar things, that the stats should be comparable. No. HOF is HOF man. Few players reach that.
And realistically dude, few people really care if he has a down game statwise. Players play a role on a team. Sometimes they have lots of tackles, sometimes not. You'd have to describe his role on each play, game after game, to prove your argument.
Buchanon can fill a hole at another position, from the time he was a rookie, until now. Didn't hear him whine, no complaining. As a safety, he's playing down amongst the trash of offensive linemen and fullbacks, WRs and TE's. Probably didn't sign up for that or see it coming. Yet he's started for our team, and on this team I think that says something. We seem to like hybrid safeties, whether it's Mathieu or Buchanon.
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thinking the same thing. Is he an impact player at ILB? No, but he's playing his role.
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kerouac9
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Where is the hyperbole I'm spewing? I quite literally said that I don't think he sucks:
That's not my argument. My argument was that in this game he wasn't one of the best players. I laid out my argument at some length here and in the original column: Bucannon's propensity to go for the big hit and not wrap up will work against Abdullah on a handful of plays and the lesser lights of the league, but he needs to more consistently:
1) Wrap up in run support
2) Get to the quarterback when blitzing
Because that will get you killed in the postseason. Heck, it got us killed just a week ago on our own turf against the Rams.
I don't really expect to hear a first-round draft pick who was likely fairly overdrafted (like the difference between a fully guaranteed contract and not) complain about his role. The team was talking quite publicly about Bucannon making a permanent transition to linebacker at the beginning of the year. He can't cover anyone; he can't make plays in space.
What have you seen that would make you think that he could be a functional safety? The Adrian-Wilson-at-this-stage comparison seemed fair because (1) Adrian Wilson was drafted significantly later, (2) Adrian Wilson was consistently viewed as a problem in coverage early in his carrer, (3) Wilson spent much of his early career at the line of scrimmage and in pass rush and run support.
I have no problem with people liking and respecting Deone Bucannon. But to say that he's a stud or one of the better players at his position (either ILB or S), or whatever? That doesn't have any foundation.
I'll ask again: what's a fair comparison to measure Bucannon's development and progress against? What special plays has he made that has impacted games? People on this very thread said that Bucannon was actually one of the BEST players in the game on Sunday. Where's the evidence? What was a great play that he made in a clutch situation?
Is Kam Chancellor a fair comparison? A former 5th round pick who has played almost exclusively in the box? After 21 games, 2 sacks and 3 INTs without starting a single game his rookie season.
Just want to say, first and foremost, that it wasn't my intention to derail your thread linking to your article, that's pretty crappy on my part, but it wasn't intentional. Also, the format of your piece dictates some goats at all times, and I enjoy the format and your articles, so I probably shouldn't have been so heavy handed. That being said,
The Adub comparison is an illegitimate one however, not only because of his possible HOF status, but because he was at his best before a lot of the new rule changes, plus the fact that teams didn't pass nearly as much as when he was at his best, and they certainly didn't run as many spread formations as they do now. There was no pistol formation, no wildcat, few option plays, no Kaepernick and no Russell Wilson's to deal with either.
I definitely agree that Buchanon needs to wrap up better. In my mind, that's his biggest weakness. He still seems to think he can lower some boom on people like he did in college. I keep mentioning playoffs, and in the playoffs that type of thing will kill us, I agree with you there. It's the difference between a 5 yard gain and pulling a Marshawn Lynch last year and taking it to the house. When a dude like Gurley or Marshawn get a head of steam going it's over, you really have to wrap up and finish the play at the LB level and accept the 5 yard gain.
You're right about him not complaining about his role, it was a pretty stupid example on my part frankly. In my mind I was thinking of the team, and Fitz and Campbell, and other players accepting their role, and I lumped him in there, but you're right, as if he'd ever complain about starting in the NFL at any position, doing virtually anything.
To answer your next question, I haven't seen anything to tell me he can be a functional safety. He hasn't played that position for us--maybe in labels, but as far as positioning, he's a LB. All I was saying is he's a functional Safety playing LB'er. He's not HOF at that position, he's not even great, I simply think he's adequate and filling a role and filling a hole we have at that position. I think to do that takes talent however, especially as a youngster. To beat out long-time vets, who have played the LB position since they were little tots, that's a lot of versatility in a player, and not just physically, but mentally, as far as play recognition at that LB level. Is he as good as Cam Chancellor? Too early to tell, but that's asking a lot. The point is, you and I both can only come up with a handful of players doing what he's doing. And the ones you want to compare him to are awesome players, because it takes an awesome player at the S position to do what he's doing.
The skills required to play LB are so different than the skills required for Safety. Even his vision has to be different, the plays aren't laid out in front of him like they would be at safety. Even just timing: at that level, players are coming at him, but at the safety level, even Adub said you can recognize plays early and play downhill. We've never even given Buchanon a chance to play downhill and lower those hits he wants to make, he's doing it from the LB level.
To answer your next question: Buchanon hasn't made any special plays, and never made a play in a clutch situation. Blow-outs aren't condusive to the clutch plays on defense you're looking for. I'd say he's made solid plays, nothing special, and still lacks the instincts of a LB. But he isn't a LB.
My point all along has been that the fact that when we rely on a safety in Buchanon to play in the box, as a LB, it highlights a glaring weakness in our defense. One that will be exposed come playoff time. I still believe that, and it doesn't even matter how good he plays at that position. It's a hole, and good to great teams will find a way to exploit that. That's my concern, it's not even about how effective he is in that role, it's that it's a cover-up with smoke and mirrors to mask our real weakness, which is at LB, which translates into a non-existent pass rush, even WITH Buchanon.
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Cbus cardsfan
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I think playing LB all through college and transitioning to the NFL is a bit different than playing S in college and then moving to LB in the NFL. Two training camps and all.
I could be wrong, but didn't Dansby and Washington play ILB throughout their college careers, whereas Deone played safety and only started playing ILB once he became a Cardinal??
Comparing him to ILBs doesnt work and neither does comparing him to safeties as he is playing a hybrid role, is not built for ILB and cannot man safety duties. For what we are asking of him, he is doing a good job IMO.
BA has both safeties playing hybrid roles. Both Mathieu and Buchanon are freak athletes and playing hybrid roles at both free safety and the strong safety position. Can't do that without excellent corners. Both players are good because of the confusion they cause. But Mathieu is special.
