What’s Wrong with Murray?

[football karma]

no question that Kyler looks "sped up" in the pocket -- feet are all over the place and he is indecisive in terms of scrambling.

its also true that it seems like he is playing in a phone booth with the rush -- so little space for him to move.

 

[PJ1]

no question that Kyler looks "sped up" in the pocket -- feet are all over the place and he is indecisive in terms of scrambling.

its also true that it seems like he is playing in a phone booth with the rush -- so little space for him to move.

He can’t hang in and concentrate downfield. The rush distracts him early and chaos ensues. The opposite of someone like Kurt Warner.

 

[football karma]

He can’t hang in and concentrate downfield. The rush distracts him early and chaos ensues. The opposite of someone like Kurt Warner.

i would like to see some all-22 shots

are there people open down the field? or -- is it just checkdowns

because the bad Kyler -- regardless of coaching staff and the other 11 guys -- throws many, many 5 yard check downs

 

[Chopper0080]

i would like to see some all-22 shots

are there people open down the field? or -- is it just checkdowns

because the bad Kyler -- regardless of coaching staff and the other 11 guys -- throws many, many 5 yard check downs

I am sure it is a combination, but I do believe we have seen enough games with Dobbs and Kyler to recognize there are players getting open. Dobbs seemed to be able to find them. Kyler has not. Personally I feel this is because he is not a progression and timing thrower which causes him to get to his reads a beat or two late. This enables DBs to close on routes and contest more passes. But again, this is my theory based upon what I feel I have seen in games.

 

[kerouac9]

i would like to see some all-22 shots

are there people open down the field? or -- is it just checkdowns

because the bad Kyler -- regardless of coaching staff and the other 11 guys -- throws many, many 5 yard check downs

Every QB does, but Kyler doesn't seem to have much sense for situational football and when you want to push it down the field.

 

[kerouac9]

I am sure it is a combination, but I do believe we have seen enough games with Dobbs and Kyler to recognize there are players getting open. Dobbs seemed to be able to find them. Kyler has not. Personally I feel this is because he is not a progression and timing thrower which causes him to get to his reads a beat or two late. This enables DBs to close on routes and contest more passes. But again, this is my theory based upon what I feel I have seen in games.

I think we can be careful here. Kyler can run through progressions, but his timing is a mess. I'm sure part/most of it is because he's never been in a timing offense in the 20 years he's been playing football. That said, it feels like Jonathan Gannon and Drew Petzing promised us they were going to design an offense to Kyler's strengths.

It feels like we do a good job mostly staying on schedule and not getting forced into passing situations. We don't start pressing when we're down two+ scores (because we don't care). Asking Kyler to make timing throws seems like a mistake.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think we can be careful here. Kyler can run through progressions, but his timing is a mess. I'm sure part/most of it is because he's never been in a timing offense in the 20 years he's been playing football. That said, it feels like Jonathan Gannon and Drew Petzing promised us they were going to design an offense to Kyler's strengths.

It feels like we do a good job mostly staying on schedule and not getting forced into passing situations. We don't start pressing when we're down two+ scores (because we don't care). Asking Kyler to make timing throws seems like a mistake.

Fair. Timing and rhythm thrower probably a more appropriate phrase.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Hey Kyler, I'm sick of all this speculation about you. Why don't you go win a game for a change? Forget all this other crap and just do something, yeah? You were a No1 pick and are paid like one. Now make something happen, or just get outta my life. I don't give a crap about your game skilz or love life. So and so didn't run the right route or LT missed his block... blah, blah blah.. I don't give a crap. Make something happen in spite of mistakes! You've already taken my money, so go do it or go home. Just win a game now and then, yeah?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I am sure it is a combination, but I do believe we have seen enough games with Dobbs and Kyler to recognize there are players getting open. Dobbs seemed to be able to find them. Kyler has not. Personally I feel this is because he is not a progression and timing thrower which causes him to get to his reads a beat or two late. This enables DBs to close on routes and contest more passes. But again, this is my theory based upon what I feel I have seen in games.

There's nothing statistical showing that Dobbs was finding open WR's more than Kyler. Dobbs and Kyler have been bad and doesn't take much to see that outside of McBride our receivers have been as awful. It's hard to express how horrific Rondale is.

 

[slanidrac16]

Watching football this weekend I saw many instances where the Qb threw a pass to what seems to no one, only to see a Wr run to that space.
We don’t do that. Every damn pass seems to be a battle. Either a second to late or a second to soon.
Kyler’s even late finding and accurately throwing to his outlet receivers.

 

[Chopper0080]

There's nothing statistical showing that Dobbs was finding open WR's more than Kyler. Dobbs and Kyler have been bad and doesn't take much to see that outside of McBride our receivers have been as awful. It's hard to express how horrific Rondale is.

Marquise Brown w/o Kyler - 8 games. 5.25 rec/g. 55 yds/g. 4 TDs
Marquise Brown w/ Kyler - 3 games. 3 rec/g, 44.6 yds/g, 0 TDs

Michael Wilson w/o Kyler - 8 games. 3.12 rec/g. 50.1 yds/g. 2 TDs.
Michael Wilson w/ Kyler - 3 games. 1 rec/g. 11.3 yds/g. 0 TDs.

Rondale Moore w/o Kyler - 8 games. 2.37 rec/g. 15.3 yds/g. 0 TDs.
Rondale Moore w/ Kyler - 6 games. 2.16 rec/g. 27.8 yds/g. 1 TDs.

I can amend my statement to finding any WRs vs open WRs. Brown and Wilson were both averaging 50 yds per game with Dobbs. Not close with Kyler.

EDIT: One other WR is better with Kyler than Dobbs. 14 of Dortch's 15 catches on the season are from Kyler as well as 182 of his 184 yards.

 

[TheCardFan]

There's nothing statistical showing that Dobbs was finding open WR's more than Kyler. Dobbs and Kyler have been bad and doesn't take much to see that outside of McBride our receivers have been as awful. It's hard to express how horrific Rondale is.

If that is case, the decision seems clear.

One guy is was getting paid $2M vs $45M for the same crappy production.

 

[football karma]

i feel like this is a Kyler tweet as well

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[MaoTosiFanClub]

Marquise Brown w/o Kyler - 8 games. 5.25 rec/g. 55 yds/g. 4 TDs
Marquise Brown w/ Kyler - 3 games. 3 rec/g, 44.6 yds/g, 0 TDs

Michael Wilson w/o Kyler - 8 games. 3.12 rec/g. 50.1 yds/g. 2 TDs.
Michael Wilson w/ Kyler - 3 games. 1 rec/g. 11.3 yds/g. 0 TDs.

Rondale Moore w/o Kyler - 8 games. 2.37 rec/g. 15.3 yds/g. 0 TDs.
Rondale Moore w/ Kyler - 6 games. 2.16 rec/g. 27.8 yds/g. 1 TDs.

I can amend my statement to finding any WRs vs open WRs. Brown and Wilson were both averaging 50 yds per game with Dobbs. Not close with Kyler.

EDIT: One other WR is better with Kyler than Dobbs. 14 of Dortch's 15 catches on the season are from Kyler as well as 182 of his 184 yards.

This is way too selective of a small sample size. Doesn’t acknowledge Hollywood being hurt and missing parts of games. And that Dortch/Rondale/McBride have all been better with Kyler

The passing game has been terrible all year. Y’all are missing the point here with the theatrics to somehow absolve the dumpster fire known as our WR group by somehow suggesting it’s adequate just to knock Kyler.

 

[football karma]

We have seen a pretty good A/B test for a QB

Mahomes is the gold standard -- but you put mediocre tackles in front of him and mediocre to below average Wideouts to throw to: lowest TD % of his career, highest INT % of his career and lowest YPA of his career.

 

[Stout]

We have seen a pretty good A/B test for a QB

Mahomes is the gold standard -- but you put mediocre tackles in front of him and mediocre to below average Wideouts to throw to: lowest TD % of his career, highest INT % of his career and lowest YPA of his career.

OMG, can we stop comparing Kyler to Mahomes? Pointless. Barely even in the same sport, and they sure in the hell aren't in the same league.

 

[Chopper0080]

This is way too selective of a small sample size. Doesn’t acknowledge Hollywood being hurt and missing parts of games. And that Dortch/Rondale/McBride have all been better with Kyler

The passing game has been terrible all year. Y’all are missing the point here with the theatrics to somehow absolve the dumpster fire known as our WR group by somehow suggesting it’s adequate just to knock Kyler.

All NFL is a small sample size. 17 games per year.

 

[Sparky16]

Marquise Brown w/o Kyler - 8 games. 5.25 rec/g. 55 yds/g. 4 TDs
Marquise Brown w/ Kyler - 3 games. 3 rec/g, 44.6 yds/g, 0 TDs

Michael Wilson w/o Kyler - 8 games. 3.12 rec/g. 50.1 yds/g. 2 TDs.
Michael Wilson w/ Kyler - 3 games. 1 rec/g. 11.3 yds/g. 0 TDs.

Rondale Moore w/o Kyler - 8 games. 2.37 rec/g. 15.3 yds/g. 0 TDs.
Rondale Moore w/ Kyler - 6 games. 2.16 rec/g. 27.8 yds/g. 1 TDs.

I can amend my statement to finding any WRs vs open WRs. Brown and Wilson were both averaging 50 yds per game with Dobbs. Not close with Kyler.

EDIT: One other WR is better with Kyler than Dobbs. 14 of Dortch's 15 catches on the season are from Kyler as well as 182 of his 184 yards.

I will say the TE position made improvments

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It feels like we do a good job mostly staying on schedule and not getting forced into passing situations. We don't start pressing when we're down two+ scores (because we don't care). Asking Kyler to make timing throws seems like a mistake.

What nfl qb hasn’t been capable of this that’s been massively successful? I would think this is a prerequisite for pro qb play.

 

[kerouac9]

What nfl qb hasn’t been capable of this that’s been massively successful? I would think this is a prerequisite for pro qb play.

What does “massively successful” mean?

 

[football karma]

OMG, can we stop comparing Kyler to Mahomes? Pointless. Barely even in the same sport, and they sure in the hell aren't in the same league.

you realize the comparison was Mahomes to Mahomes right?

 

[football karma]

What nfl qb hasn’t been capable of this that’s been massively successful? I would think this is a prerequisite for pro qb play.

i have seen QBs that werent timing throwers and became good enough at it

both Tua and Jalen Hurts both had issues with it, but have not become good at it

Lamar Jackson was a mess early on -- but his passing has come a long way

even Josh Allen relied on his arm to wait until guys were open and then drilled it in there -- he has gotten better

part of getting better at something is being challenged to get better at it. I wonder if Kliff made that a point or not

 

[kerouac9]

i have seen QBs that werent timing throwers and became good enough at it

both Tua and Jalen Hurts both had issues with it, but have not become good at it

Lamar Jackson was a mess early on -- but his passing has come a long way

even Josh Allen relied on his arm to wait until guys were open and then drilled it in there -- he has gotten better

part of getting better at something is being challenged to get better at it. I wonder if Kliff made that a point or not

These are all great examples. I don't know if Kliff really ran a timing offense as much as he ran a progression offense where X player was going to be open on the route in Y coverage. That's kind of the heart of the Air Raid offense.

Remember, Kliff didn't even have a real playbook when he came here.

 

[netsnjkidd]

i have seen QBs that werent timing throwers and became good enough at it

both Tua and Jalen Hurts both had issues with it, but have not become good at it

Lamar Jackson was a mess early on -- but his passing has come a long way

even Josh Allen relied on his arm to wait until guys were open and then drilled it in there -- he has gotten better

part of getting better at something is being challenged to get better at it. I wonder if Kliff made that a point or not

Thats why im interested what kyler does with a offseason of no rehab to work with drew and learn this offense. If his serious about being our franchise qb he should be locked in

 

[BirdGangThing]

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