What can (or should) be done to fix the team this season?

[DJ Tabooh]

The issue for me is leadership on this team. I get Vogel probably isn’t the right guy for this team. However, the effort has been lackluster to say the least.

I get Luka and Brunson are great players. Giving up 50 two weeks in a row to two different players is inexcusable.

I love Book. Gonna ride with him until the wheels fall off. But this is HIS TEAM. He’s been taking a lot of bad shots lately, picking up ticky tack fouls and not playing in rhythm.

This team is seriously not even fun to watch right now. We’re weak and fragile mentally and physically. But it’s only going to change when the “leaders”, whoever they are, actually do something about it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think we have no other choice but to play it out this season.

I lean that way too but I'm not exactly sure what the problem is (or problems are). If it truly is just coaching, acting now is the best solution even if the coach comes in at the disadvantage of no preseason. But the problems look to run far deeper than coaching to me and with our asset situation I'm not sure there is a move we can make that is anything more than rearranging the deck chairs.

 

[Yuma]

I lean that way too but I'm not exactly sure what the problem is (or problems are). If it truly is just coaching, acting now is the best solution even if the coach comes in at the disadvantage of no preseason. But the problems look to run far deeper than coaching to me and with our asset situation I'm not sure there is a move we can make that is anything more than rearranging the deck chairs.

It would have to be moving all our chips, what little we have in getting a higher level guy in here. Maybe that's PG, or PF.

 

[Proximo]

Maybe you have the short memory.

Yeah, the Suns lost to the Nuggets 4-2 in the second round of the playoffs in 2022-23.

The Lakers played in the Western Conference Finals.

There is something called chemistry.

You really think last years team had good chemistry with Ayton and Monty, and our collection of reject bench players who couldn't do their jobs?

You know several of them like Warren and Terrance Ross aren't even on a team now. Don't give me the BS about how CP3 would help either he was god awful most of last season.

This team is better than they have played

 

[Proximo]

I lean that way too but I'm not exactly sure what the problem is (or problems are). If it truly is just coaching, acting now is the best solution even if the coach comes in at the disadvantage of no preseason. But the problems look to run far deeper than coaching to me and with our asset situation I'm not sure there is a move we can make that is anything more than rearranging the deck chairs.

Well, I will say this a couple seasons ago the Celtics were 500 at the midpoint and looked awful to me. But they turned it around completely.

Not saying it's likely to happen - just saying it can.

 

[Yuma]

This team is better than they have played

I think this team has more talent overall, but is NOT playing up to that level. It seems like we really fall apart in fourth quarters. Too many guys deferring to KD and Book? Other teams ramping up their efforts over ours? IDK. The eye test looks like we are getting outplayed in the fourth quarter.

 

[Proximo]

It would have to be moving all our chips, what little we have in getting a higher level guy in here. Maybe that's PG, or PF.

We aren't getting a high level guy - unless we are trading Durant.

If we still completely suck near the deadline I would offer him up to the Thunder - they have tons of picks and could be real contenders this year. Maybe they would bite.

 

[Mainstreet]

You really think last years team had good chemistry with Ayton and Monty, and our collection of reject bench players who couldn't do their jobs?

You know several of them like Warren and Terrance Ross aren't even on a team now. Don't give me the BS about how CP3 would help either he was god awful most of last season.

This team is better than they have played

I miss the chemistry the Suns used to have.

Things still needed to be fixed, but that was on James Jones.

I miss the camaraderie of the former teammates that dates back to the Finals.

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[nashman]

It’s very hard to be patient with how we are playing! But again we have yet to even see the whole team play. Not saying it’s gonna be great but we just don’t know yet. Team hasn’t been together long chemistry takes time, it would be nice to have the WHOLE team healthy for let’s say a solid month to see what they can accomplish. If we make trade deadline deals to try and bring in a piece, I’m not trading Allen he’s one of the best pieces we picked up. I’d rather freaking se a John Wall signing than trading away good pieces to acquire what would probably be a backup quality PG. Bol is trash, not sure why KBD not getting any run, Eubanks should be 3rd backup center at this point Azubuke gives us better size and finishing inside! Still a lot this team can do. Really wish Nurk was back for that game last night as we see to be missing an inside presence. It’s frustrating now but need to let it play out more, Vogel does look like trash right now but seems to have owners trust we shall see…

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well, I will say this a couple seasons ago the Celtics were 500 at the midpoint and looked awful to me. But they turned it around completely.

Not saying it's likely to happen - just saying it can.

And if we had actual assets to trade, I could see us improving drastically too. As it is, if we move Grayson we might fill one hole (backup PG) but would create another. And other than him I don't think we have anyone that other teams are looking for.

 

[95pro]

Ship KD out. I thought he was an alright dude and there was a false narrative surrounding this guy but last night was the final straw. On such a big night he does this. I was willing to give him a chance and never thought I’d see a Sun quit like he did. KD in this short amount of time here doing what he did is insulting to me as a Suns fan. We get what we can for him and move on.

 

[Mainstreet]

And if we had actual assets to trade, I could see us improving drastically too. As it is, if we move Grayson we might fill one hole (backup PG) but would create another. And other than him I don't think we have anyone that other teams are looking for.

I got a kick out of this tweet. Yes, Grayson Allen has won me over as well.

The problem is, I can't see the Suns being able to keep him as a free agent.

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[AzStevenCal]

Ship KD out. I thought he was an alright dude and there was a false narrative surrounding this guy but last night was the final straw. On such a big night he does this. I was willing to give him a chance and never thought I’d see a Sun quit like he did. KD in this short amount of time here doing what he did is insulting to me as a Suns fan. We get what we can for him and move on.

Both Jimmy Butler and Kobe Bryant quit on their teams even more than what we apparently saw last night - Chicago moved on from Butler and has never been the same while Kobe went on to play some of us best ball with the same team he quit on. I'm not saying we keep him, but I'd like to know what really happened last night before reacting. I'm hoping that KD was just playing sick or something like that. But knowing his history, nothing would surprise me.

BTW, I would like us to move on from KD but I'd much rather it be from a position of strength. If we support (or can't counter) the narrative that he quit on the team and try and trade him, we'd be selling low on him.

 

[Hoop Head]

You really think last years team had good chemistry with Ayton and Monty, and our collection of reject bench players who couldn't do their jobs?

You know several of them like Warren and Terrance Ross aren't even on a team now. Don't give me the BS about how CP3 would help either he was god awful most of last season.

This team is better than they have played

Yes, last years Suns team had better chemistry. Naming 2 guys who weren't regular rotation players doesn't help make your point. Terrence Ross also retired at seasons end. TJ has had so many weird injuries that he might as well retire also.

This year's Suns is Booker, Durant, Nurkic, and eventually Beal. The rest are guys seeking their next contract. They don't have an aligned goal, they each have their individual goals and that's obvious watching them. We aren't a team that's been there before that the Heat, Cavs, or Lakers with LeBron where a finals trip was all but guaranteed so all the minimum guys here are looking to be showcased next to Booker and KD to get a fat contract next summer. That's a recipe for disaster. They aren't here ring chasing first, they're contract chasing and I don't blame them for that but it's a problem.

 

[Phrazbit]

Both Jimmy Butler and Kobe Bryant quit on their teams even more than what we apparently saw last night - Chicago moved on from Butler and has never been the same while Kobe went on to play some of us best ball with the same team he quit on. I'm not saying we keep him, but I'd like to know what really happened last night before reacting. I'm hoping that KD was just playing sick or something like that. But knowing his history, nothing would surprise me.

BTW, I would like us to move on from KD but I'd much rather it be from a position of strength. If we support (or can't counter) the narrative that he quit on the team and try and trade him, we'd be selling low on him.

KD has made it rather clear over the years that he isn’t much interested in a challenge.

 

[Raindog]

It's extremely apparent to me that the Suns need a new coach in the worst way. Vogel is clearly incompetent, at least with the roster the Suns currently have. Whatever chemistry issues they may have, there's no excuse for not playing much better than they currently are.

If they change coaches and get the same or similar results, then you look at moving Durant for whatever assets you can get. While they probably won't recoup as much as they gave up, there's also no reason they couldn't still get some good players/picks for him.

Whichever route they decide, the important thing is to press the reset button ASAP before the situation is irredeemable. It's very clear at this point things aren't working.

 

[Proximo]

I miss the chemistry the Suns used to have.

Things still needed to be fixed, but that was on James Jones.

I miss the camaraderie of the former teammates that dates back to the Finals.

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I do too - and you know who was the key to that chemistry - MIKAL

That's why I said we cant trade him, that's why James Jones didn't want to trade him.

But Ishbia wanted to make a splash so we are where we are.

 

[Proximo]

Yes, last years Suns team had better chemistry. Naming 2 guys who weren't regular rotation players doesn't help make your point. Terrence Ross also retired at seasons end. TJ has had so many weird injuries that he might as well retire also.

This year's Suns is Booker, Durant, Nurkic, and eventually Beal. The rest are guys seeking their next contract. They don't have an aligned goal, they each have their individual goals and that's obvious watching them. We aren't a team that's been there before that the Heat, Cavs, or Lakers with LeBron where a finals trip was all but guaranteed so all the minimum guys here are looking to be showcased next to Booker and KD to get a fat contract next summer. That's a recipe for disaster. They aren't here ring chasing first, they're contract chasing and I don't blame them for that but it's a problem.

They did before trading Mikal - afterwards I don't think so. Maybe a little better, but it was far from cohesive.

CP3 clearly didn't want to give up the reigns and play off ball. Ayton was Ayton - don't try and sugercoat that team just because it was a little better than this one.

 

[Proximo]

It's extremely apparent to me that the Suns need a new coach in the worst way. Vogel is clearly incompetent, at least with the roster the Suns currently have. Whatever chemistry issues they may have, there's no excuse for not playing much better than they currently are.

If they change coaches and get the same or similar results, then you look at moving Durant for whatever assets you can get. While they probably won't recoup as much as they gave up, there's also no reason they couldn't still get some good players/picks for him.

Whichever route they decide, the important thing is to press the reset button ASAP before the situation is irredeemable. It's very clear at this point things aren't working.

I have had a slight change of heart on this.

In the game against the Mavs the team did show some improvement. Considering how drastic a change we are talking about I am willing to give the team a couple more weeks to hopefully get it's act together, probably won't happen - but the coaching change is unlikely to work well either.

 

[Mainstreet]

I do too - and you know who was the key to that chemistry - MIKAL

That's why I said we cant trade him, that's why James Jones didn't want to trade him.

But Ishbia wanted to make a splash so we are where we are.

This is what I have said all a long. Mikal Bridges should have never been included in the trade for Durant.

 

[Yuma]

We aren't getting a high level guy - unless we are trading Durant.

If we still completely suck near the deadline I would offer him up to the Thunder - they have tons of picks and could be real contenders this year. Maybe they would bite.

I said higher level meaning better than the vet minimum picks we have had to use. I didn't mean a high level guy - top shelf player.

 

[Proximo]

I said higher level meaning better than the vet minimum picks we have had to use. I didn't mean a high level guy - top shelf player.

I know - but realistically other than Booker or Durant there is no trade pieces that get us anything better than another 8th/9th player type guy which is unlikely to move the needle.

 

[Proximo]

This is what I have said all a long. Mikal Bridges should have never been included in the trade for Durant.

He shouldn't of clearly.

But it's done. I have been trying to move on - but it sure is hard when you see the lack of life that he brought to the court every game.

 

[Finito]

You really think last years team had good chemistry with Ayton and Monty, and our collection of reject bench players who couldn't do their jobs?

You know several of them like Warren and Terrance Ross aren't even on a team now. Don't give me the BS about how CP3 would help either he was god awful most of last season.

This team is better than they have played

Last years team was absolutely better.

You are what your record says you are point blank period. Something is really wrong with this team and all those guys are gone. Only one guy left

 

[Phrazbit]

This team might be better than they're currently playing but I don't see this team being capable of playing better than last season's team did when they were even somewhat healthy.

We don't have the ball handlers last year's team did... Bridges, Cam, Paul and Payne are all considerably better with the ball than anyone on this team outside of Booker and Durant. And defensively... this squad is a mess. I don't have a clue what Vogel is trying to do on screens, we get destroyed seemingly every time a team runs one, but this team is slow, very slow.

We play so slow and the defense is so leaky that we can't put anyone away. No lead is safe, most of our wins have come tooth and nail against the dregs of the league.