What did people ever see in Bobbie Massie?

kerouac9

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The interesting thing is first 3 scouting reports I read say same thing. technique needs work(2 of 3 says plays high). Very good upper body strength, relies on size and athleticism.

To me I don't see him as being strong because I see smaller guys overpowering him but I guess that's related to leverage because he plays high and he actually is strong. Everyone seems to think he's strong enough.

The scary thing is 2 of the 3 said showed very little improvement in college got in better shape, but had same technique issues when he left school as he had when he arrived in school.

So we have an uncoachable kid with a guy who can't coach.

:mad:

A scout that I really like--Drew Boylhart--said in his report on Cordy Glenn something that stuck with me:

College coaches only have so much time to spend with their kids every week. They can spend that time coaching up their best player, or they can spend it with the kids that are struggling to play at this level. At middle- and lower-tier programs like Georgia, the worst OL are probably going to need significantly more technique work on the day-to-day than the top guys like Glenn and Massie.

It's very likely that this is the first time that both of these guys are getting extensive coaching and criticism and being the focus of opposing attacks. Hard to say that they're "uncoachable" based on two months as pros.

What I've seen is a guy who's struggled with elite defensive ends setting him up throughout the game.
 

Russ Smith

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A scout that I really like--Drew Boylhart--said in his report on Cordy Glenn something that stuck with me:

College coaches only have so much time to spend with their kids every week. They can spend that time coaching up their best player, or they can spend it with the kids that are struggling to play at this level. At middle- and lower-tier programs like Georgia, the worst OL are probably going to need significantly more technique work on the day-to-day than the top guys like Glenn and Massie.

It's very likely that this is the first time that both of these guys are getting extensive coaching and criticism and being the focus of opposing attacks. Hard to say that they're "uncoachable" based on two months as pros.

What I've seen is a guy who's struggled with elite defensive ends setting him up throughout the game.

I was exaggerating for effect what I meant was we have a guy who apparently didn't improve his technique in college being coached by a guy who doesn't appear to be good at teaching technique.

I thought Massie played well until Miami, then it was like the door was open everyone saw what Wake did and they're just attacking it until Massie shows he's figured it out. As you said they push wide get him high off balance and then get under him and go inside right to Kolb. Same move over and over is beating him because he gets off balance.
 

kerouac9

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I was exaggerating for effect what I meant was we have a guy who apparently didn't improve his technique in college being coached by a guy who doesn't appear to be good at teaching technique.

I thought Massie played well until Miami, then it was like the door was open everyone saw what Wake did and they're just attacking it until Massie shows he's figured it out. As you said they push wide get him high off balance and then get under him and go inside right to Kolb. Same move over and over is beating him because he gets off balance.

We'd be able to get him some help on the outside so that he can set inside better if we didn't have an even bigger zero in D'Anthony Batiste on the left side of the line being embarrassing and sometimes needing help from not only the TE but also the running back.
 

Russ Smith

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We'd be able to get him some help on the outside so that he can set inside better if we didn't have an even bigger zero in D'Anthony Batiste on the left side of the line being embarrassing and sometimes needing help from not only the TE but also the running back.

Yep and you're dead right about Snyder too he's playing hurt and he's not good so there's no inside help for massie because Snyder is often chasing his own man by that point.

I agree though Batiste is clearly worse than massie he's just getting more help. And when Kolb runs, he runs away from Batiste's side towards massies. Some of those sacks were him getting away from Batiste's guy and running into Massie's. Both got beat but Massie gets the sack allowed.

I am not sure he'd make another NFL roster let alone start at LT.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Massie's head is still swimming---he was thrust into the starting lineup a little too soon---he has all the physical attributed you want in a RT---he needs technique refinements and experience---give it time.
This.
Massie will be fine. He wasn't selected with being an opening day starter in mind. I don't know why people are surprised he has struggled with the likes of Wake, Williams, and Long. Those 3 have made seasoned veterans look bad throughout the years. Give Massie some time. Also, Massie has shown some good run blocking skills. The real concern should be with the interior of the OL
 

JeffGollin

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The interesting thing is first 3 scouting reports I read say same thing. technique needs work(2 of 3 says plays high). Very good upper body strength, relies on size and athleticism...So we have an uncoachable kid with a guy who can't coach.

:mad:
Massey was drafted to be our RTOF (no pun intended). He wasn't expected to start right away if at all this season. But the injuries to Levi & Bridges plus the failed Young experiment pressed him into service before he was ready.

Sure, everyone was hoping he'd develop faster, but some young players take longer than others - especially when they're overwhelmed from being thrown to the wolves.

Also, I challenge your comment that Massey is "uncoachable." I've never heard that. Please name your source.

A 4th round pick is pressed into action at starting RT and isn't playing like an effective veteran by Game 7. I can't say I'm shocked, but I'd lay the blame on the FO's short-sightedness in not having access to enough competent backup guys who could step in and start right away without embarrassing themselves.

Massey may not be getting the job done to everyone's satisfaction, but I think he has the raw ability to eventually be a fixture at RT, and it's unfair to slam him or prematurely right him off.
 

Russ Smith

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Massey was drafted to be our RTOF (no pun intended). He wasn't expected to start right away if at all this season. But the injuries to Levi & Bridges plus the failed Young experiment pressed him into service before he was ready.

Sure, everyone was hoping he'd develop faster, but some young players take longer than others - especially when they're overwhelmed from being thrown to the wolves.

Also, I challenge your comment that Massey is "uncoachable." I've never heard that. Please name your source.

A 4th round pick is pressed into action at starting RT and isn't playing like an effective veteran by Game 7. I can't say I'm shocked, but I'd lay the blame on the FO's short-sightedness in not having access to enough competent backup guys who could step in and start right away without embarrassing themselves.

Massey may not be getting the job done to everyone's satisfaction, but I think he has the raw ability to eventually be a fixture at RT, and it's unfair to slam him or prematurely right him off.

See my response to K9 I was exaggerating for effect. He got in better shape in college but reportedly didn't improve technique wise.

I like Massie and agree he's playing a year too early.

But it is frustrating to watch the same move beat him over and over, after 6 games you'd think Grimm could teach him how to counter but it takes time.
 

52brandon

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Massey was drafted to be our RTOF (no pun intended). He wasn't expected to start right away if at all this season. But the injuries to Levi & Bridges plus the failed Young experiment pressed him into service before he was ready.

Sure, everyone was hoping he'd develop faster, but some young players take longer than others - especially when they're overwhelmed from being thrown to the wolves.

Also, I challenge your comment that Massey is "uncoachable." I've never heard that. Please name your source.

A 4th round pick is pressed into action at starting RT and isn't playing like an effective veteran by Game 7. I can't say I'm shocked, but I'd lay the blame on the FO's short-sightedness in not having access to enough competent backup guys who could step in and start right away without embarrassing themselves.

Massey may not be getting the job done to everyone's satisfaction, but I think he has the raw ability to eventually be a fixture at RT, and it's unfair to slam him or prematurely right him off.
I hope he is uncoachable, given our OL coach
 

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Can't totally disagree with you, but one difference is that Levi wound up at LT. (protecting the QB's blindside). Massey is projected to remain at RT.

And yet Levi has no business playing LT either.

This is why the Cards Oline sucks! A roster full of guards who aren't that good & maybe 2 possible RTs who are average at best! :bang: wtf
 
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Darkside

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I've bemoaned Massie's play as much as anyone. Even during the first couple games when he played "well" I was pointing out his beatdowns. But I think it's unfair to actually judge his future based on this year--and not just because he's a rookie, although that's part of it. Line play is generally based as a whole unit, rather than 1 guy individually (exceptions are made at LT when the dude is on an island). Massie doesn't get the help he would normally get as a starting rookie. If he were the only problem they'd have guys sliding to help (most likely to his inside left, or if a TE is helping Massie would leverage inside and rely on the TE help outside). But since our whole line sucks the help isn't there. Depending on Snyder to slide and provide help is a joke. Even Massie must know it isn't coming.

We've seen all year guys not sliding to provide the help--that's why we've all seen plays where 3 guys get to the QB and we have 2 or 3 offensive lineman just standing there; literally just standing, not even engaged in a block. That's what happens when you don't slide to pick up your blockers, you end up not engaged with anyone and your QB gets destroyed.

This oline is so gawdawful putrid bad that I blame Massie the least out of everyone. Guys are not only mismatched at the point of attack, in strength, and technique, but mismatched picking up stunts when they're supposed to slide over. The delayed stunt really owns this group because they immediately slide to help a dude who doesn't need it and allow the linebacker to come on a delayed blitz and eat our QB. Anything semi-exotic like stunts, loops and delayed blitzes own our line.

Snyder is the reason for the collapse on the right side. He probably needs more help than Massie and there just aren't enough players to help them both, we'd need like 14 men on the field. And Batiste is so bad that it's hard to bring help because he can be beat on any move. It's not like he has one weakness where his guy always beats him wide or inside, no. Batiste gets beat on a variety of moves including bull-rushes, swims to the outside, inside shoulder cuts, you name it. The only move I haven't seen him beat on is a 360 ala Freeney and that's only because defenders know they don't need to waste half a second on a 360 to beat him.

Massie is probably the best of this group IMO. We have 3 guys on the line needing help: Massie, Snyder, Batiste. Those are the chronic areas. There isn't enough help to bring when all of them can be beat on any one move. You can bring a TE to help Massie, a RB to pick up Snyder's man after he gets destroyed, and what exactly for Batiste? Can't bring another TE over because he'll just get beat inside--same thing with bringing another RB to chip. Problem with Batiste is you don't even know where to bring the help because he gets beat in a plethora of ways. And even if we do all that, with 2 TE's and 2 RB's that gives our QB maybe a whole extra 1 second at best than he otherwise would have had, and we only have 2 WR's in routes at that point. And that's against a simple base package of 4 rushers!

It's a no-win with this line and in my opinion we're stuck with it all year because there's no way to fix it other than to replace them.
 

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What happened to Potter? I would think the Cardinals would give him a try as bad as the tackles have been.
 

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I expected Massie to struggle this season. The right situation would have been to give him outside help all year and let him get used to the guy next to him and the different stunts the line will use and then the next year let him loose on his own more. Our coaching staff and front office really screwed the pooch with the O-line this year.

I expect Massie to be an average tackle by the end of the year and a solid one by the end of next year. He has already looked pretty good run blocking. The size and physical talent is there. Give him another year and I think he will be fine.
 

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Can't totally disagree with you, but one difference is that Levi wound up at LT. (protecting the QB's blindside). Massey is projected to remain at RT.

True but the reference was to all the posts that say at least Levi Brown is a decent run blocker.

:D
 

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Massie's head is still swimming---he was thrust into the starting lineup a little too soon---he has all the physical attributed you want in a RT---he needs technique refinements and experience---give it time.

+1.

And he needs to get NFL strong, and I think he will. He has to know by now, that being strong enough to block for the best college player he went against in school is not nearly enough to even stay on an NFL field.

He is having a wood shed moment this year. For some reason, with no proof to this outrageious claim, I think he is not going to like the taste left in his mouth from the embarrassment he is getting this year.
 

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Massie's facing a new guy, a new set of problems, every week this season with the exception of the repeat games in the division. Perhaps the best way to judge his play this season is to see how he fares in his games against the Rams, Seahags and Niners.
 

JeffGollin

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Massie's facing a new guy, a new set of problems, every week this season with the exception of the repeat games in the division. Perhaps the best way to judge his play this season is to see how he fares in his games against the Rams, Seahags and Niners.
The one obstacle we fans face is that all we see is what's happening on the field without knowing why it happened. we don't know what's going on behind the scenes - on the practice field, film room etc. In many instances we don't know what the blocking scheme was. And we sure don't know the process by which the coaches impart knowledge & info or Massey's capacity for absorbing and processing this knowledge and putting it to use.

All we know is that, in many cases, "it ain't working", but not why. We're left to point fingers and blame the 2 most visible dudes - Massey and his line coach.

It's frustrating because it's obvious that things are breaking down, but we don't really know where the problems really lie or how to fix them. (I've been belly-aching about "pardon me, what about the offensive line?" since the days of Buddy R. And we've never really gotten it totally fixed).
 

Crazy Canuck

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The one obstacle we fans face is that all we see is what's happening on the field without knowing why it happened. we don't know what's going on behind the scenes - on the practice field, film room etc. In many instances we don't know what the blocking scheme was. And we sure don't know the process by which the coaches impart knowledge & info or Massey's capacity for absorbing and processing this knowledge and putting it to use.

All we know is that, in many cases, "it ain't working", but not why. We're left to point fingers and blame the 2 most visible dudes - Massey and his line coach.

It's frustrating because it's obvious that things are breaking down, but we don't really know where the problems really lie or how to fix them. (I've been belly-aching about "pardon me, what about the offensive line?" since the days of Buddy R. And we've never really gotten it totally fixed).

All true. But, as one who once made a living in sport, it takes a bit of time to process all the info from coaching, get to know your opposition... and just slow things down in your head.
 

RugbyMuffin

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And yet Levi has no business playing LT either.

This is why the Cards Oline sucks! A roster full of guards who aren't that good & maybe 2 possible RTs who are average at best! :bang: wtf

You sound like the draft experts that talked about Massie.

"He can only top out being a starting RT"

Uh, yeah. I will take that. I will take that all day long. He is a rookie in over his head. But, if he ends up starting at RT for 10 years, is that really something to complain about ?
 

Buckybird

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You sound like the draft experts that talked about Massie.

"He can only top out being a starting RT"

Uh, yeah. I will take that. I will take that all day long. He is a rookie in over his head. But, if he ends up starting at RT for 10 years, is that really something to complain about ?

IMO still doesn't solve our issues at LT. Levi is an average player at best & at LT that can lose games for you...just sayin.
 

RugbyMuffin

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IMO still doesn't solve our issues at LT. Levi is an average player at best & at LT that can lose games for you...just sayin.

Completely agree.

But why on earth would any team pass up a player for the reason he can "only" be a starting right tackle.



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What happened to Brandon Keith? It's like he just disappeared off the face of the earth after Grimm was suppose to develop him into the next Larry Allen.
 

JeffGollin

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You sound like the draft experts that talked about Massie.

"He can only top out being a starting RT"

Uh, yeah. I will take that. I will take that all day long. He is a rookie in over his head. But, if he ends up starting at RT for 10 years, is that really something to complain about ?
If you're a coach whose job centers on "winning now", how Massey ends up 10 years from now will be of little or no consequence.

That winning earlier than later has taken on more importance as evidenced by the number of rookie and 2nd year QB's who are playing in the NFL.

As a fan who follows the team over a long period of years, investing in Massey for the long haul makes a lot of sense. I'm just not so sure it's realistic.
 

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If you're a coach whose job centers on "winning now", how Massey ends up 10 years from now will be of little or no consequence.

That winning earlier than later has taken on more importance as evidenced by the number of rookie and 2nd year QB's who are playing in the NFL.

As a fan who follows the team over a long period of years, investing in Massey for the long haul makes a lot of sense. I'm just not so sure it's realistic.

Agree that it's a win-now league, but from a coach's standpoint they still take into consideration longevity and the future health of the franchise. Every coach gets fired, it's just a matter of when. The better off they leave the franchise the easier it is for them to land their next job, so I think it's always in mind. I do agree though that nothing replaces winning.

The coaches who annoy me the most are the ones who use gimmicks (Rex Ryan) to win now rather than build for longevity. There's little that Rex does that will be relevant or helpful 5 years from now for that franchise. Denny Greene built a roster that another coach took to the SB, and say what you will about Whisenhunt but he changed a culture and philosophy that will remain after he's gone.

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