What did you expect from Watson as the coach?

[Hoop Head]

I've watched most of the games the Suns have played this year and have been happy for the most part, despite a lot of losing. I was looking forward to watching more this season because of all of the young talent the team has and hope to catch more in the future, especially if moves are made unloading Knight and/or Tucker to free up more time for the youngsters. It seems most fans though have no patience for this team or desire to watch them, which is odd to me considering how most everyone called for them to pull the plug and go into tank mode for the last 2 seasons, at least. They're in full tank mode at this time and doing well at collecting pingpong balls but a lot of fans seem disappointed in Watson and also want McD to finally be canned. The Watson hate has been surprising considering how poorly this team was the last 2 years under Hornacek and how the chemistry and locker room problems were talked about more than the on court play. Things on that front turned around as soon as Watson took over last year. I think he's done a good job considering what he has to work with. It's not easy to develop so many young players at once and also keep our veterans happy so they hold value in case a deal comes about or just to keep the locker room chemistry good. It's also hard to design offensive or defensive schemes when most of the players on this team haven't developed enough to show their individual strengths or weaknesses. This seems like what most fans wanted last year, play the young guys and develop a team for the future with chemistry, continuity and consistency. That seems to be happening and we're not chasing some pointless playoff run either and the tank is basically on already and it's December.

Since Watson has been the coach though it's been more than just the chemistry and locker room atmosphere that's improved though. He's playing a traditional starting 5 in that every player is playing their natural position from Point Guard through Center, which is something almost every fan complained about under Hornacek's time here at one point or the other, either playing Frye at Center too much, the 2 PG offense, Markieff at Center, or the 3 PG offense. It was under his tenure last year that Booker really stepped up and he saw to it that Booker would remain a starter this year. Warren was having a career year and proved to be a really good starting SF in the league prior to his injury. Bledsoe has played as a PG the best he has throughout his time in Phoenix also cutting down on turnovers and stupid decisions, he's even shown more willing to let others like Booker or Knight run the offense when he's on the floor. Len has been playing well this season, especially as a starter. Hopefully he's finally turned the corner so he can be a part of this team's future and deliver well as a rim protector plus some offense each night. He's gotten consistent playing time under Watson though, which should help either way in terms of his development and our management deciding on his future. He recognized that Dudley at PF wasn't working to start games so he made the change and has been starting Chriss, despite Chriss not producing much. Ulis and Bender should be getting more minutes but they're stuck behind some of the veterans on our team on the depth chart. Ulis was just a 2nd round pick and has shown he's better than his draft position but it's still hard to get him minutes behind Bledsoe and Knight. He's also really undersized and a bit of a defensive liability, which is another reason I'm sure he's not getting more minutes right now. Bender should be playing more but I suspect they're hoping to find someone to take Tucker, freeing up playing time for him, and it also takes longer for Euro bigs to develop. He's getting used to the NBA game right now and throwing him out there for big minutes might hurt him more than it helps.

Most people hate it when the team finishes with too good of a record for a high lottery pick but don't seem content with the losing that goes along with that. They always point back to early season wins as to why we're not getting a great pick but we don't have to worry about that this season. Also the young guys are playings a good amount of minutes but that doesn't seem to matter to many either. I know people want Knight, Tucker, and Chandler traded ASAP but that isn't going to happen until the 1st of the year, at least. We haven't even hit the deadline to trade players that were signed in the offseason yet. It's not even a quarter of the way through the year right now either. Chandler was given the option of being moved in the offseason but chose to stick it out to be a veteran leader and mentor to a young rebuilding team. The Suns don't need to go against what he wants so soon and have another player trash them on their way out the door. Moving Tucker could happen sooner but I doubt they do that until Warren is back. Knight should happen but the best chance to get a decent return would be closer to the trade deadline when most team's draft picks are predictable as far as where that team will end the season and also contenders will be looking for pieces to add. Him coming off the bench may hurt his numbers some but his willingness to do so should help more teams take a look at adding him. A number of those things are out of Watson's hands as coach though. So what more do people want from him as the coach, because I just don't get why he's bashed in almost every game day thread for numerous things.

 

[3rdside]

Doesn't seem to be much of an offense at all, there were 15 assists on 40 FG's last night so it's really just Iso ball...that's not good coaching. If he's building good team chemistry then I could just about handle an inability to coach, but I can't help but think team chemistry and performances, if not wins, are pretty closely linked, and we're dire on both fronts (but maybe not dire enough on the losing which is slightly worrying, but with the talent we've got we shouldn't be doing any worse than we are, and probably should be doing better).

So with Watson developing the rookies, sort of, giving Len some burn, and losing then he's doing alright, and my main goal for the season, a high draft pick, is well and truly on track and therefore I'm okay with Watson....Which is kind of ironic: he'll get us the right outcome - the pick - in the wrong way - via incompetence and not competence.

 

[Errntknght]

I would say that Watson isn't tanking - if he were why is he playing vets who are in the twilights of their careers such heavy minutes?
I wish I believed he's not giving Bender, Ulis and Williams consistent minutes because he thinks they'll win too many games for us! I think regular minutes for Ulis and Williams would make us a slightly better team but he doesn't seem to recognize how they can contribute - that's pretty sad.

The offense looks rather like he took Hornacek's iso heavy, P&R offense and added a perimeter weave. It certainly doesn't look like anything to build on. The defense looks ad hoc but perhaps we'll see some structure evolve... it takes a while to discern that on D, when it is there.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think they're playing much faster than they did under Hornacek, more fast breaks and transition baskets. They're 2nd in the league in pace.

 

[sunsfan88]

The offense looks rather like he took Hornacek's iso heavy, P&R offense and added a perimeter weave. It certainly doesn't look like anything to build on. The defense looks ad hoc but perhaps we'll see some structure evolve... it takes a while to discern that on D, when it is there.

Yea this.

I was expecting Watson to build an effective system like Walton has in LA. Their players know how to run offensive sets now and their defense isn't as bad as it is here either.

It's just night and day when looking at both teams and the Lakers were projected to be worse than the Suns. Byron Scott had that team playing worse than the Suns and they add Walton and some FAs like Deng/Mozgov and Ingram and all of a sudden their one of the best teams in the West.

Just shows you how much coaching matters. Too bad Robert Sarver will never in his lifetime ever open up his check book to bring in a top HC.

 

[3rdside]

If it's any consolation, the Knight pick looks like late lottery.

I'd still rather the pick.

 

[Errntknght]

The Lakers are hardly one of the best teams in the West though they are looking considerably better than us - they are on the upswing for sure. They started off hot but they've cooled down of late - the Raptors are beating them soundly in Toronto as I type. If they pick it up again they could make the playoffs. Their pick is likely in 15 - 22 range.

 

[Mainstreet]

I found these comments interesting from a Paul Coro at azcentral.

The Suns score most of their baskets unassisted, and could join the 2012-13 Suns as the only NBA teams to register that statistic since 2011-12 when Oklahoma City reached the Finals with Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and James Harden.

The Suns have been a low-assist team in recent years because of their roster emphasis on scoring guards, including the current trio of Eric Bledsoe, Devin Booker and Brandon Knight.

The Suns have thrown the 12th most passes in the NBA but much of that is due to having more possessions as the NBA’s fastest-paced team. They average 18.3 assists per game, down from 20.7 last season, with a 14.5 average over the past four games.

Do the Suns miss Steve Nash or what? It shows where much of the Suns' problems are besides youth. They are very much dependent on scoring guards. When the Suns guards are not scoring, they are in trouble.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor.../?hootPostID=dac763a7318aeb99032631ff76f79476

 

[Hoop Head]

I think Knight hurts the team when he's on the court in general in terms of ball movement. He's not a passer and players are more likely to hold onto the ball if he's out there because they know they won't get it back. Bledsoe and Booker have been willing facilitators on their own. I think another thing that hurts them in terms of assists is also Chandler and Tucker, neither one is an offensive threat. Chandler scores most of his points on put backs and Tucker is overall offensively inept. If he hung out and waited for the corner 3 he wouldn't be so bad but he drives to the hoop like a point guard only to fumble a layup attempt and whenever he gets the ball in the paint, whether a rebound or pass, he takes too long to do anything with it and typically gets blocked or turns it over. I think they'll do better offensively when Warren returns.

I wish they'd quit trying to force things through Booker until he's 100% healthy again also. For whatever reason he hasn't been able to run the offense like he was last season and he's been forcing more shots also, whether he's being told to keep throwing them up or if that's by design though, who knows. I'd bet some of it has to do with him trying to play his way out of the funk he's been in but that hasn't been working.

 

[BC867]

I wish they'd quit trying to force things through Booker until he's 100% healthy again also. For whatever reason he hasn't been able to run the offense like he was last season and he's been forcing more shots also, whether he's being told to keep throwing them up or if that's by design though, who knows. I'd bet some of it has to do with him trying to play his way out of the funk he's been in but that hasn't been working.

I wish they'd put him on the DL until his feet heal. This season is certainly not worthy of ruining the future health of a great prospect.

 

[mjb21aztd]

I like Watson and still think suns can turn it around in a few years the suns have a group young players with hopefully good upside in bender and criss. If the suns get a top player in this draft and maybe sign a better pf if one available that watson could lead the suns to the playoffs.

 

[Mainstreet]

I like Watson and still think suns can turn it around in a few years the suns have a group young players with hopefully good upside in bender and criss. If the suns get a top player in this draft and maybe sign a better pf if one available that watson could lead the suns to the playoffs.

If the Suns have not obtained the tools to become competitive next season I will be very disappointed. I'm not saying the Suns should make the playoffs next season but they should have the pieces in place to make a run of it (at least on paper). They will have added another early draft pick and hopefully a quality piece in free agency. At some point the Suns should not embrace losing.

 

[sunsfan88]

If it's any consolation, the Knight pick looks like late lottery.

I'd still rather the pick.

I would take the pick over him even if it was the 30th pick.

 

[Bert]

I like Watson. He seems to have a great relationship with the guys and he seems like a very genuine, likable guy.

As far as coaching goes; like others have said his offensive system, philosophy, whatever you want to call it, doesn't look like much but an extension of what Hornacek was doing. He allows the guys a bit more freedom, which enables them to grow, but I don't know how far it can take us.

He's still developing as a coach too so maybe they will all grow into eachother?

I still think this team still lacks a clear leader on the floor. Bledsoe has taken a step forward IMO this season in terms of controlling, or attempting to control the offense, but it's just not good enough yet.

We seem like a collection of a lot of really interesting, young talent that needs an anchor. How about a dominant PF? Like a young STAT...


Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, Amare, Len... That would be a fairly dangerous lineup. Ahhh dreams.

It's always interesting reading your guys posts on coaching. There are some great basketball minds on this board!

 

[3rdside]

Out of 419 players, Knight tied for 415th in RPM, and dead last in DRPM.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/ ... /sort/DRPM

Thanks to Cap at .net for drawing attention to the above.


There is something seriously wrong with this.

Knight sucks but he can't suck this much without having acquired a serious chip on his shoulder, obtained from being demoted to the bench.

Even though Booker probably deserved to start the season, it's back firing spectacularly as neither booker nor knight are playing well, and in line with much what we suspect about Watson - that he's no good - I think this benching has proved to be a mistake.

As Knight will not stop hero balling with the reserves - meaning he both sucks and he's a selfish, childish douche - I think Knight needs to start, bench Booker and hope Knight picks his game up in time for a decent mid season trade. Don't tell Knight, or the team, that of course, just say it's for the greater good whereby Brandon can reflate his own ego and hopefully improve his deeply offensive performances.

And then maybe trial booker as a point guard with the 2nd stringers? Don't know about this one though.

 

[3rdside]

I like Watson. He seems to have a great relationship with the guys and he seems like a very genuine, likable guy.

As far as coaching goes; like others have said his offensive system, philosophy, whatever you want to call it, doesn't look like much but an extension of what Hornacek was doing. He allows the guys a bit more freedom, which enables them to grow, but I don't know how far it can take us.

He's still developing as a coach too so maybe they will all grow into eachother?

I still think this team still lacks a clear leader on the floor. Bledsoe has taken a step forward IMO this season in terms of controlling, or attempting to control the offense, but it's just not good enough yet.

We seem like a collection of a lot of really interesting, young talent that needs an anchor. How about a dominant PF? Like a young STAT...


Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, Amare, Len... That would be a fairly dangerous lineup. Ahhh dreams.

It's always interesting reading your guys posts on coaching. There are some great basketball minds on this board!

Bledsoe will bever be good enough, and the sooner we can ship him for a decent point guard or pick to draft one, the better.

 

[3rdside]

I would take the pick over him even if it was the 30th pick.

I think he's worth about the same as markieff morris, about a late lottery pick, if he picks his putrid game up to somewhere around where he was at the start of last season but yeah, in current form he's worth the 30th pick or even less.

 

[3rdside]

*I guess his injury might have something to do with his stinking but I was under the impression it wasn't major a surgery? Hernia is what I thought it was.

 

[BC867]

As Knight will not stop hero balling with the reserves - meaning he both sucks and he's a selfish, childish douche - I think Knight needs to start, bench Booker and hope Knight picks his game up in time for a decent mid season trade ... And then maybe trial booker as a point guard with the 2nd stringers? Don't know about this one though.

Are you really proposing replacing a budding young star who has been a team player with a malcontent who fits no position? Even for the sake of a trade (if the rest of the GM's were ignorant enough to buy it), you don't ruin Booker's career by benching him.

Then you want to play Booker out of position with the 2nd stringers? That is about as opposite from motivational psychology as I've ever read. To your credit, I guess your "Don't know about this one, though" is a disclaimer.

 

[Errntknght]

Are you really proposing replacing a budding young star who has been a team player with a malcontent who fits no position? Even for the sake of a trade (if the rest of the GM's were ignorant enough to buy it), you don't ruin Booker's career by benching him.

Then you want to play Booker out of position with the 2nd stringers? That is about as opposite from motivational psychology as I've ever read. To your credit, I guess your "Don't know about this one, though" is a disclaimer.

With a little change to 3rdside's suggestion I rather like it and I could see Booker improving with the change. What you do is play Ulis with Booker on the second unit! When TJ gets healthy play him with those two - putting our two best scorers with a PG who's primary focus is running the show and setting up teammates. Play them, say, with Bender and Len. All that remains, after they're running smoothly together, is switch the first and second units!

 

[sunsfan88]

I was expecting Watson to play the rookies more than he has this season.

Bender and Ulis in particular have barely got any opportunities this season.

 

[sdscard4]

Never wanted Watson. Good guy and great relationship with his players but would have any other team hired him? Who knows. I would be lying if I didn't say I was really hoping for Mike D. Just don't think Watson will get us to the playoffs.

 

[leclerc]

Would be nice to get a proven coach who's had success with young teams before. Hubie Brown next year?

 

[3rdside]

Are you really proposing replacing a budding young star who has been a team player with a malcontent who fits no position? Even for the sake of a trade (if the rest of the GM's were ignorant enough to buy it), you d on't ruin Booker's career by benching him.

Then you want to play Booker out of position with the 2nd stringers? That is about as opposite from motivational psychology as I've ever read. To your credit, I guess your "Don't know about this one, though" is a disclaimer.

Right now we're getting 1 + 1 = -1 because of the impact Knight's demotion is having on him personally and the the second unit as a whole. The guy averaged 20 and 5 last season on reasonable fg% (.415%) which are starter numbers on most teams, so he's obviously feeling stiffed...Watson's pre-season words about Knight accepting his 6th man role are clearly not true as the evidence is staring at us right in the face.

It's childish and egocentric and certainly we can blame Knight in part for it, but I can also understand it, rightly or wrongly, on the basis of his own perceived role on the team when looking at his stats last year; 20 and 5 are solid numbers.

Which means Watson is also to blame because he didn't recognise this egocentricity / vulnerability in Knight; while a tough one to spot, he missed the obvious signs that we all picked up on when Knight assumed he would maintain his starting spot through various interviews in the pre-season. There was clearly some strong reluctance there.

So IMO it's another player psychology / team psychology / 'chemistry' fail; I've raised my concerns about McD's inability to understand this essential part of team success vis a vis his total mishandling of Dragic, and this looks to be a continuation of the trend, albeit not as large nor obvious a mistake as the Dragic situation was. Perhaps the following statement is made too easily with the benefit of hindsight but I'm almost certain a better coach would have spotted these signs and kept Booker on the bench.

By doing this, he would have deflated his ego a bit - nothing wrong with doing that to a young (very), hungry, talented player - and it would almost certainly have brought out a better Knight that what we're seeing. Like I said, there is something seriously wrong in front of us.

The worry for me (actually it's more like an expectation than a worry) is that our incompetent management team will scapegoat Knight and freeze him out rather than look for a solution, which I think his promotion to the starting team is the only one. By doing this (as mentioned in the previous post) Knight get's an ego reflate, hopefully his stats pad up and we can then trade him for reasonable value. And who knows, maybe we decide we want to keep him because 20 and 5 at $14m per is pretty good value in the current climate.

And it's hardly going to ruffle Booker too much - he's a stronger character than Knight, he's not going anywhere and must know he's the future starting 2 guard of this organisation for the next decade, he's only 18 so his ego hasn't run wild yet meaning he'll more readily take orders and understand that a) it's a decision for the better of the team and b) he is unquestionably the floor leader of the second unit meaning he can do what he likes, and maybe even learn the point guard role better and c) it may only be a short term 'demotion' if Knight improves enough that we can find a taker for him in the trading window.

Nice ideas of course but we've got McD and Watson running the show so look for this to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

 

[3rdside]

*Booker just turned 20 - October 30th - but was still a teenager when the season kicked off
** I want to keep losing for the draft so that needs to be taken into consideration when trying to fix the problem, but leaving things as they are and / or trading Knight for nothing are losing ways of going about this.