What effect do today's cuts have on the cap?

[Redheart]

I personally think that E. Brown will have a breakout year under Grimm's new blocking scheme. Elton is very athletic for a big man. He is what Grimm is looking for in an athletic guard. He will be fine as our Backup at both guard positions. Plus he makes backup money.

Jonathan Lewis should have no problem transitioning to a 3-4 DE. He is young strong and quick. I really liked what little I saw from him last year.

I have no idea who Brian Johnson is. I'm guessing that he doesn't cost us anything so it doesn't hurt to have him around during training camp.

The UDFAs are basically free. Why not keep them on the roster? Pure camp fodder.

 

[joeshmo]

I'm sure that after the draft was over, the coaching staff had a good idea that these moves were pretty much garenteed. It was just a matter of waiting for June to come around.

I dont think that is very true. In new CBA They could have cut someone earlier and recieved June 1st cap savings before the June 1st date. Why wait when you dont have to, and could give them even more time to find a new team. And if they knew that Clancy wasnt much of a fit for the 3-4 before hand then they wouldnt have given him all the snaps as a starter in all of these practices we have already have. You would think that they would mix in Watson or Branch more often with the starters sooner rather then later if they knew about right after they picked Branch.

 

[Russ Smith]

I dont think that is very true. In new CBA They could have cut someone earlier and recieved June 1st cap savings before the June 1st date. Why wait when you dont have to, and could give them even more time to find a new team. And if they knew that Clancy wasnt much of a fit for the 3-4 before hand then they wouldnt have given him all the snaps as a starter in all of these practices we have already have. You would think that they would mix in Watson or Branch more often with the starters sooner rather then later if they knew about right after they picked Branch.

I was going to say the same thing but got tired of hearing myself think the same thing.

If Clancy is such a bad fit, why was he running first team until he got cut? Why waste first team reps on a guy who's too small for your system?

I'd LIKE to think the Cards were trying to trade him and figured keep him as the starter, but since even us peanut gallery types could see he was going to get cut, it was pretty unlikely another team was going to trade for him.

 

[joeshmo]

I was going to say the same thing but got tired of hearing myself think the same thing.

If Clancy is such a bad fit, why was he running first team until he got cut? Why waste first team reps on a guy who's too small for your system?

I'd LIKE to think the Cards were trying to trade him and figured keep him as the starter, but since even us peanut gallery types could see he was going to get cut, it was pretty unlikely another team was going to trade for him.

TRading wouldnt have given them the same amount of cap savings becuase they wouldnt be able to spread out the remaining bonus over 2 years, it would all count towards this year. Because of that I dont believe they even thought about trying to trade anyone.

 

[Russ Smith]

TRading wouldnt have given them the same amount of cap savings becuase they wouldnt be able to spread out the remaining bonus over 2 years, it would all count towards this year. Because of that I dont believe they even thought about trying to trade anyone.

But this wasn't about cap room it was about cutting overpaid backups.



I agree you're right they never tried to trade them for that very reason.

 

[MadCardDisease]

If Clancy is such a bad fit, why was he running first team until he got cut? Why waste first team reps on a guy who's too small for your system?

Good questions. Does running with the first team during minicamp mean that you get more reps than a second teamer? What does first team during minicamp really mean?

It's not like the put pads on during minicamp. So I doubt running with first team will make any difference than running with the second or third. Mini camp is all about learning your assignments in shorts an T-shirts. Everyone at each position goes through the exact same drills.

 

[joeshmo]

Good questions. Does running with the first team during minicamp mean that you get more reps than a second teamer? What does first team during minicamp really mean?

It's not like the put pads on during minicamp. So I doubt running with first team will make any difference than running with the second or third. Mini camp is all about learning your assignments in shorts an T-shirts. Everyone at each position goes through the exact same drills.

Then why do coaches even put depth charts out in mini camp. Whats the point of even having a 1st string unit and a 2nd string unit. Just throw out there a mish mash of 7 D players vs. a mish mash of 7 O players in 7 on 7 drills. If its all the same then whats the point.

First string does get more reps in 7 on 7 drills becuase the coaches to are tinkering with their schemes as well and they want their top 7 guys on the field to do their tinkering with, as well as other reasons. It also creates cohesion with the players you will be playing next to on a game by game basis, working as a unit. It is also a different mind set when you are working next to higher level players(1st teamers compared to 2nd teamers).

There is a point to it all and it does make a difference IMO.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I dont think that is very true. In new CBA They could have cut someone earlier and recieved June 1st cap savings before the June 1st date. Why wait when you dont have to, and could give them even more time to find a new team. And if they knew that Clancy wasnt much of a fit for the 3-4 before hand then they wouldnt have given him all the snaps as a starter in all of these practices we have already have. You would think that they would mix in Watson or Branch more often with the starters sooner rather then later if they knew about right after they picked Branch.

They didn't make the moves earlier because they didn't know what they had at the time.

It wasn't until after the draft that a log jam occured at the NT position. Watson is your prototypical 3-4 NT. You just spent a high round Draft pick on Branch. The writing was on the wall for Clancy IMO.

They tried Femi at RB during the OTAs to see if he could be their 3rd down back and it became clear fairly quickly that he wouldn't fit there.

 

[joeshmo]

They didn't make the moves earlier because they didn't know what they had at the time.

It wasn't until after the draft that a log jam occured at the NT position. Watson is your prototypical 3-4 NT. You just spent a high round Draft pick on Branch. The writing was on the wall for Clancy IMO.

They tried Femi at RB during the OTAs to see if he could be their 3rd down back and it became clear fairly quickly that he wouldn't fit there.

Once again according to your premise of they knew what they had after the draft, then why take a month and a half worth of OTA's to make the move. Why have Clancy work as your #1 NT for a month and a half if the writting was on the wall for Clancy right after the draft.

I think we just made a complete circle and have ended up exactly where we started in this debate.

 

[CardShark]

I think the Cards just simply buggered the cap.

 

[BigWatson]

If Clancy is such a bad fit, why was he running first team until he got cut? Why waste first team reps on a guy who's too small for your system?

They didn't "waste" any 1st team reps. The coaches wanted to see how he would hold up against some starters and obviously he didn't impress the coaches at all.

 

[AntSports Steve]

TRading wouldnt have given them the same amount of cap savings becuase they wouldnt be able to spread out the remaining bonus over 2 years, it would all count towards this year.

Correct me if I'm wrong Joeshmo, but included in the new CBA was a new rule that allowed players traded to impact the cap the same way they would be as if they were cut. Meaning traded players unaccounted signing bonuses CAN be spread out over the current year and the next year.

That's why trading has increased in the league. Correct?

 

[Redheart]

You think you know, but you don't know.

 

[Russ Smith]

They didn't "waste" any 1st team reps. The coaches wanted to see how he would hold up against some starters and obviously he didn't impress the coaches at all.

They were running 7 on 7 drills without pads, how much could they really learn?

Remember in camp last year we were all being told our best DT was a guy we wound up cutting early in the season because he jumped offsides so much?

One thing that became clear was that as Wolfley kept saying on air "he's a guesser, he guesses the snap counts." Apparently in training camp that's a very easy way to look good since it's apparently easier to know the snap count, get off quickly, and make a ton of plays.

That player, Langston Moore, wound up playing 2 games, got cut with 2 tackles and wound up missing most of the year before Detroit picked him up.

I made the mistake last year of being angry that he was cut because he had reportedly played so well in camp and OTA's that I bought into the idea that he should have been kept. I'm not buying into it this year because the same guy, Clancy, was behind Moore in camp last year and when the games started Moore couldn't cut it.

There's a reason they have camp and preseason I would have liked to see us at least give the guys a longer look, but we couldn't because of the caproom snafu.

 

[football karma]

Wis rolled out the depth chart under the philosophy of vets / incumbents keep their positions until beaten

Does anybody really think Levi Brown is the second best right tackle behind Oliver Ross?

Everybody gets the Ross is a backup keeping the spot warm for Levi Brown, and that Wis wasnt going to put a brand new rookie in the starting lineup in his first minicamp --

Couldnt the same be said for Clancy?

 

[joeshmo]

Wis rolled out the depth chart under the philosophy of vets / incumbents keep their positions until beaten

Does anybody really think Levi Brown is the second best right tackle behind Oliver Ross?

Everybody gets the Ross is a backup keeping the spot warm for Levi Brown, and that Wis wasnt going to put a brand new rookie in the starting lineup in his first minicamp --

Couldnt the same be said for Clancy?

When was Leckey or Brown beaten out. And Watson isnt a rookie, Levi Brown is.

 

[Redheart]

When was Leckey or Brown beaten out. And Watson isnt a rookie, Levi Brown is.

I would say Johnson qualifies as the senior vet, same for Clancy vs. Watson.

 

[slanidrac16]

Geez Guys, teams that are 5-11 are going to move some people. New coaching staffs are going to move some people.
Whiz is not going to sabatoge is initial year as a head coach just for cap reasons. If he felt those players were capable of making an impact on this team then somebody else would have been cut or we could have renegotiated some contracts to make it work.
IMHO, these are not earth shattering moves.

 

[football karma]

When was Leckey or Brown beaten out. And Watson isnt a rookie, Levi Brown is.

Brown was replaced by Wells, another vet. Al Johnson is a vet.

As for Clancy, Alan Branch is a rookie, and the player that the staff really, really beleives will be their starter.

 

[PrescottLooie]

Also, as I recall, Brown was asked to lose weight in Houston so he could become quicker/faster and couldn't/wouldn't so he was allowed to persue the FA market which is where we found him.

 

[joeshmo]

Brown was replaced by Wells, another vet. Al Johnson is a vet.

What does that have to do with Wells and Johnson beating out Brown and Leckey. Wiz mantra of competition yet neither one actually had to complete for their jobs. Brown and Leckey didnt/dont have a chance.

 

[joeshmo]

What I am trying to say is that some spots look like there is open competition, but at others there is not open competition.

For example, once Johnson was signed was their really any doubt that Leckey would have a real shot at keeping his job.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Then why do coaches even put depth charts out in mini camp. Whats the point of even having a 1st string unit and a 2nd string unit. Just throw out there a mish mash of 7 D players vs. a mish mash of 7 O players in 7 on 7 drills. If its all the same then whats the point.

First string does get more reps in 7 on 7 drills becuase the coaches to are tinkering with their schemes as well and they want their top 7 guys on the field to do their tinkering with, as well as other reasons. It also creates cohesion with the players you will be playing next to on a game by game basis, working as a unit. It is also a different mind set when you are working next to higher level players(1st teamers compared to 2nd teamers).

There is a point to it all and it does make a difference IMO.

They were running 7 on 7 drills without pads, how much could they really learn?

The linemen don't even participate in 7 on 7 drills. So I don't see how this even applies. That's why I'm saying that 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th string doesn't really matter for the linemen during mini camp. The linemen are all doing position drills for most of mini camp.

 

[Stout]

The linemen don't even participate in 7 on 7 drills. So I don't see how this even applies. That's why I'm saying that 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th string doesn't really matter for the linemen during mini camp. The linemen are all doing position drills for most of mini camp.

You're entirely missing the point. The point is that the players were supposed to compete for positions, so how can they compete when they're not even into pads yet? In fact, aside from missing the point, you just help make his point.

 

[Skkorpion]

You're entirely missing the point. The point is that the players were supposed to compete for positions, so how can they compete when they're not even into pads yet? In fact, aside from missing the point, you just help make his point.

Maybe the coaches have seen enough. Maybe they lied. You are the one missing the point. Coaching staffs always do things their way and the may or may not tell us about it.

Meanwhile, when joeshmo makes a factual error, you just dismiss it. Yet you don't dismiss anything this coaching staff does if they dare disagree with you. Do you really value your own opinion so highly, you can't give the unproven a chance to establish a record before ripping them?

I'm as biased as the next person and am often proven wrong. Give these guys a chance.