To answer your question. Clancy and Brown were getting paid like starters. That is why they were on the first team. The coaching staff seen them in minni camp and made a decision. They tried to get them to take less money to stay with the team. They didn't want to do it so they got released. It is obvious that the new coaching staff sees some players that they like and feel that they can contribute this season. I have no problem with the cuts eithier. I don't buy this keep anyway until they prove during the season that they don't fit the system. That is what camps are for. The Cardinals did these players a favor by cutting them. Now they might land in place that wants them.
What effect do today's cuts have on the cap?
- Thread starter sundevil04
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To answer your question. Clancy and Brown were getting paid like starters. That is why they were on the first team. The coaching staff seen them in minni camp and made a decision. They tried to get them to take less money to stay with the team. They didn't want to do it so they got released. It is obvious that the new coaching staff sees some players that they like and feel that they can contribute this season. I have no problem with the cuts eithier. I don't buy this keep anyway until they prove during the season that they don't fit the system. That is what camps are for. The Cardinals did these players a favor by cutting them. Now they might land in place that wants them.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Apologies, Skkorp. It wasn't part of what I was talking about, but I should have made that clear. It's not that I think I know better than the coaching staff, although the Ross/Gandy valuations make me wonder. No, it's the fact that we screw up our depth for money reasons, the fact that because we mis-managed the cap, we have to cut decent depth players.
Hey, you know me, Skkorp. I'll be urging us on to victory come season's start. I just can't bear to see our depth be cut for cap reasons is all.
Doc Cardinal
Old Fart
Sounds like something an englishman would do...no offense to our British fans.
As far as these moves are concerned.....innocent until proven guilty.
JeffGollin
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Minicamp depth charts are relatively meaningless because they apply to a bunch of people learning their assignments and running around in shorts. You can bet on things changing once the hitting begins.
Why have 'em? Because, organizationally, somewhere you need to list guys by position.
Maybe in minicamp, they should just list guys alphabetically or according to height.
Why have 'em? Because, organizationally, somewhere you need to list guys by position.
Maybe in minicamp, they should just list guys alphabetically or according to height.
joeshmo
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Clancy was not paid like a starter. He was paid like a good backup.
Brown was paid like a starter though, and have already stated that I dont mind this cut as much as I do Clancy becuase of that very fact.
As for the bolded part no one has every said that. All anyone has ever said was wait until camp when the hitting starts, when the real competition starts, especially for OL and DL. IMO waiting to see the competition during camp when they are hitting would have been the most prudent idea when you consider the fact that cutting them will cuase you to be paying 2 Mill in 2008 cap space for players not even on your team. If we used a little better foresight in managing our cap they would have had that chance.
Note - It isnt a roster bonus issue that I am pointing to when I talk about mismanagement, I actually think the idea is pretty genious. Its the execution and lack of foresight issue.
joeshmo
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So then there is really no competition going on in these mini camps and one can say that Clancy and Brown were never given a real shot to compete for their jobs.
And if it is really that meaningless then every starter from last year should be the starter in this years mini camps, I mean its pretty meaningless, so why not wait to make your decision on depth chart until training camp.
Sorry, but I dont buy that it is meaningless and I dont think the players think that way either.
With a new coaching staff installing a new system, I think you are bound to have to make some changes that might result in some dead money that first year.
These guys didn't fit the system and were eating up cap space. There was no longer room on the roster for them. Why drag them to training camp if you know that they are not going to make the team? If you bring them to training camp they would truely be stealing time from our young guys who really need those reps.
This is my guess of what went on:
- The coaching staff reviewed tape of the Cardinal FAs that they wanted to keep and made them offers.
- Then they started reviewing tape of the players currently under contract. This gave them idea of who to persue in FA and the draft. However they couldn't cut anyone until they knew for sure that they had someone to replace them.
- After the draft and primary FA signings they had a better idea of the depth that they had at each position.
- When June 1st came around they could cut the players that make larger sums of money and were expendable.
It's not completely meaningless. Coaches are given a chance to teach new drills and new terminology/schemes. I'm not sure if they will show it again but watch the Cardinals Mini-Camp on the NFLN. There is a lot of teaching going on but not much that looks like a football game.
Mini-Camp is all about learning the basics so you are ready to put your pads on come Training camp. In fact it was reported by I believe it was Urban or Somers that Whisenhunt will not give any of his rookies a chance to start until they reach traning camp. This is because he wants to see them in pads before he promotes anyone.
joeshmo
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Thats all well and good. I just dont like the fact that neither was given a chance to actually compete when Wiz mantra is all about competition.
Do you think these players would have been cut at this point in time if we had enough cap space to sign our rookies? I dont think we would have. And thats how I am looking at it.
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I agree Joe. If we had 10 million in cap space instead of 2, no doubt they'd be here still. I really don't have a problem with who was cut, I'd have preferred it to happen after real competition though.
I can't say for sure. It would be pure speculation.
Obviously these cuts were made with the cap in mind. However if the coaches really believed that these guys would be a good fit, the could have easily restructured contracts to keep them on the team. That why I believe that this wasn't purely a cap decision.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
So, if Wells and Watson went down to injury during camp, would you still say Brown and Clancy wouldn't make the team?
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
They probably would. Way to jink us!
LOL nice try
That's why these cuts are so stupid. That's why the bad cap management that forced us into them is even more stupid.
LOL nice try
So you believe that the Cardinals couldn't restructure contracts to enable them to keep these guys if they really wanted to?
There were several reasons these guys were cut on June 1st:
- To free up cap space and spred their remaining cap hit over 2 years.
- These guys didn't fit the new scheme like they did when Denny was coach. Recent moves in the offseason and draft made them expendable.
- Cutting them now allows them to latch on with another team before training camp.
- You don't waist valuable training camp reps on guys you don't intend to keep.
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All your points are debatable, but this one is just plain wrong. Like joe told you before, the June 1 date is now irrelevant. You can cut a player at any time and choose to spread the hit over two years instead of one.
That is not totally correct. You can only designate 2 players per year as Post-June 1st cuts.
However, cutting any players after June 1st still allowed the Cards to spread the cap hit for all 3 players just the same. So I don't understand how I'm plain wrong. The Cards were still allowed to spread the cap hit by cutting them after June 1st while giving them time to evaluated the talent.
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Okay, I'll take your word for it on the two player limit. You are not completely wrong on that point. Still, the only issue on cap bonus was Brown and Clancy, so there was no need to wait until June 1st on them.
Like I said, it's not that they were cut. I just think it would've been better had the cuts happened in August instead of June. But, we didn't have that luxury.
There is no doubt in my mind that these cuts were made for CAP reasons.
az1965
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I fully agree. Its all financial at this time of the year.
everyone is forgetting that the cardinals ask them to take a pay cut to stay with the team. they refused and they got cut. so yes both agruements are right about their cuts being cap space and that they didn't fit the system. thati is why they were going to be back ups.
sometimes you can tell if a player is going to fit or not. that is when you give veterans guys like clancy and brown the opportunity to go to someone elses training camp to give them the best opportunity to compete elsewhere.
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Didn't we just cut 3 after June 1st?
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True enough, but if we hadn't ate up the capspace, maybe we could have traded Clancy? They said he had 4 teams lined up to look at him and signed with NO for more money than we were paying him. Maybe we get a 5th rounder or something?
But we couldn't trade because we needed more caproom and trading wouldn't do that.
