What if Suns took Tyrese Haliburton?

[Chaplin]

I don’t remember any questions about his mental makeup. Concerns about his funky shot/some about his athleticism.

I don't remember much about his athleticism being an issue, I keep falling back on a combination of his agent possibly dealing out ultimatums and his interview.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just because you can't remember doesn't mean it didn't exist. I remember we speculated a lot about it, and if you are calling me a liar, then feel free. I may be wrong, but it was my recollection. I find it interesting that you don't remember the discussions we had on him.

I seem to recall something about red flags during the interview process (since they weren't doing actual workouts).

I’m not calling you a liar it just seems in opposite of everything I’ve just gone out and reread presraft about him. Not a single res flag about his mental or emotional makeup. And I REALLY don’t recall discussing it here.

 

[Proximo]

It seems to be the in vogue talking point by a few commentators I have heard lately, including Bill Simmons, that the Suns would be their favorites in the Western Conference if they would have taken Tyrese Haliburton in the draft. I know one of the guys on TNT said this, too.

Do you agree with this?

My thinking is that is why would the Suns take Haliburton when they already have Cameron Payne? Remember, Payne had some really good games in the bubble. We still had Ricky Rubio, so it was not like we were hurting at PG. In fact it looked like we were set.

Isn't it kind of disrespect to Cameron Payne that people think Haliburton would give us the edge?

I think anyone that thinks Cam Payne is better than Haliburton have not watched Haliburton. He is easily better, and he has tons more long term potential. Not to mention Cam Payne is not under contract beyond this season, and we could easily lose him in free agency.

Would Haliburton make the team better - Absolutely.

Would he solve our biggest issue of no backup big man - Nope.

Nobody would ever consider the Suns favorites being a small market team with no playoff experience, any suggestion of that is laughable.

 

[Proximo]

According to multiple sources he only wanted to be drafted by the Kings, and his agent informed teams in front of SAC to pass on him, which seemingly led to his fall in the draft.

This is total BS. He would play, otherwise he would not get paid. Even if he was unhappy and said he wanted a trade, after playing his trade value would be significantly higher than STIX.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is total BS. He would play, otherwise he would not get paid. Even if he was unhappy and said he wanted a trade, after playing his trade value would be significantly higher than STIX.

agreed.

 

[Chaplin]

This is total BS. He would play, otherwise he would not get paid. Even if he was unhappy and said he wanted a trade, after playing his trade value would be significantly higher than STIX.

It's not total BS. I'm not saying we should have stood down and let him go to the Kings, I'm saying that it is very possible that his agency was trying to strongarm teams. And in a year where the offseason was likely going to be heavily accelerated with little to no prep time for rookies, I don't blame the Suns (and all the other teams) for at least taking it seriously.

As of right now, it was a big miss on several teams' parts, as Stix doesn't even look like an NBA player right now. And it doesn't look like he's going to go the Cam Johnson route anytime soon.

 

[95pro]

James Jones appears to be a good character guy, where one could see a young disgruntled rookie ruining team chemistry.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

These intimations of Haliburton being a team cancer are hilarious. The Suns have a very strong locker room, and with CP on board, do you really think he'd have a major negative impact on team chemistry bc he really wanted to go to the Kings?

 

[AzStevenCal]

These intimations of Haliburton being a team cancer are hilarious. The Suns have a very strong locker room, and with CP on board, do you really think he'd have a major negative impact on team chemistry bc he really wanted to go to the Kings?

I don't remember exactly what the concerns were but I never heard them phrased this way, in the rumors or the conversations. And no, I don't think he would have been a problem in the locker room. He had a good reputation as a leader willing to do whatever the team needed and supportive of his less talented teammates.

But I don't think you survive as a GM very long drafting someone that has refused to give you medical information (following a season ending injury), refused to work out for you and refused to interview with you. You guys are all so sure we made a horrible call and maybe you're right but I wonder how many of you would be calling for JJ's head if he'd drafted this guy and he'd turned out to be a scrub or if he'd soon demanded a trade?

 

[Raze]

There's a part of me that wouldn't have drafted him if he refused to provide information or meet with the team, and then there's a part that wants to say,

"Screw you dude. Who do you think you are? You don't get to choose where you go when you're drafted. Edwards doesn't get to choose; neither does Ball; so what makes you so special. This draft sucks anyway so we can take a loss at #10 and you can sit and rot on our bench for three years you spoiled brat."

...or something like that.

If you look at who we could have taken besides Smith or Haliburton, it really isn't that impressive of a list. Stewart, Anthony, Kenyon Martin, and Bey stand out, but only because they are on awful teams and getting plenty of minutes. I don't think any of them would have contributed to the Suns this year much different than Smith has.

Quickley and Maledon seem to be the early candidates for steals of the draft, but even then they aren't all that impressive. I do think both would have contributed though. (For all our talk about this years draft I never heard Quickley's name come up and I didn't even watch an ounce of film on him. Oops.)

 

[Mainstreet]

There's a part of me that wouldn't have drafted him if he refused to provide information or meet with the team, and then there's a part that wants to say,

"Screw you dude. Who do you think you are? You don't get to choose where you go when you're drafted. Edwards doesn't get to choose; neither does Ball; so what makes you so special. This draft sucks anyway so we can take a loss at #10 and you can sit and rot on our bench for three years you spoiled brat."

...or something like that.

If you look at who we could have taken besides Smith or Haliburton, it really isn't that impressive of a list. Stewart, Anthony, Kenyon Martin, and Bey stand out, but only because they are on awful teams and getting plenty of minutes. I don't think any of them would have contributed to the Suns this year much different than Smith has.

Quickley and Maledon seem to be the early candidates for steals of the draft, but even then they aren't all that impressive. I do think both would have contributed though. (For all our talk about this years draft I never heard Quickley's name come up and I didn't even watch an ounce of film on him. Oops.)

As I recall, Karl Malone didn't interview with the Suns either because he thought he would be drafted earlier.

I guess the Suns showed him.

 

[Raindog]

Another point - if the Suns draft Haliburton, I'm not sure that trading for CP is anything of a certain. The Suns may well figure they have enough in Rubio + Haliburton to succeed in the short term, and may not want to interfere with developing Haliburton by getting Paul... not to mention not having to incur the extra expense.

 

[Hoop Head]

Another point - if the Suns draft Haliburton, I'm not sure that trading for CP is anything of a certain. The Suns may well figure they have enough in Rubio + Haliburton to succeed in the short term, and may not want to interfere with developing Haliburton by getting Paul... not to mention not having to incur the extra expense.

It seems the timeline of events has been distorted in this thread as you aren't the first to mention Rubio being a Sun and the Paul deal not happening as of the draft but that's false. The Paul deal was done before the draft and made 100% official on draft day. Rubio was dealt again on draft day by OKC to Minnesota. So the idea we would have had Halliburton as Rubio's backup was never a thing.

 

[Raindog]

It seems the timeline of events has been distorted in this thread as you aren't the first to mention Rubio being a Sun and the Paul deal not happening as of the draft but that's false. The Paul deal was done before the draft and made 100% official on draft day. Rubio was dealt again on draft day by OKC to Minnesota. So the idea we would have had Halliburton as Rubio's backup was never a thing.

Indeed, that may be the case. I personally cannot recall the exact timeline. But I guess that the same thinking applies - once Paul was acquired, the appeal of drafting a PG diminished, so Haliburton became a far less appealing prospect to the Suns FO than he otherwise might have been with no Paul trade.

 

[Chaplin]

Indeed, that may be the case. I personally cannot recall the exact timeline. But I guess that the same thinking applies - once Paul was acquired, the appeal of drafting a PG diminished, so Haliburton became a far less appealing prospect to the Suns FO than he otherwise might have been with no Paul trade.

I think this stands as one of the most likely scenarios, red flags or no. Remember, James Jones brought Payne in from seemably nowhere and we went 8-0 in the bubble. I’m sure that had something to do with us passing on Halliburton as well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Indeed, that may be the case. I personally cannot recall the exact timeline. But I guess that the same thinking applies - once Paul was acquired, the appeal of drafting a PG diminished, so Haliburton became a far less appealing prospect to the Suns FO than he otherwise might have been with no Paul trade.

i don't really buy that either. Paul was only on a 2 year deal and would be 37 when done. taking Halliburton would have gone a long way toward getting a backup PG in the present and hopefully set the team up to transition to Halliburton once Paul was done.

 

[Mainstreet]

It seems the timeline of events has been distorted in this thread as you aren't the first to mention Rubio being a Sun and the Paul deal not happening as of the draft but that's false. The Paul deal was done before the draft and made 100% official on draft day. Rubio was dealt again on draft day by OKC to Minnesota. So the idea we would have had Halliburton as Rubio's backup was never a thing.

You are right. The Chris Paul trade was made two days before the draft.

Still there were questions about whether Cam Payne would be the same player for a season that he was in the bubble. The Suns needed another point guard and Haliburton was considered BPA.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't remember exactly what the concerns were but I never heard them phrased this way, in the rumors or the conversations. And no, I don't think he would have been a problem in the locker room. He had a good reputation as a leader willing to do whatever the team needed and supportive of his less talented teammates.

But I don't think you survive as a GM very long drafting someone that has refused to give you medical information (following a season ending injury), refused to work out for you and refused to interview with you. You guys are all so sure we made a horrible call and maybe you're right but I wonder how many of you would be calling for JJ's head if he'd drafted this guy and he'd turned out to be a scrub or if he'd soon demanded a trade?

Sigh, more fantasyland. He didn’t turn out to be a scrub did he? And it’s not 20-20 hindsight bc he was largely lauded as a top talent and many of us were for drafting. And demand all he wants. He has zero leverage.

I also spent the day skimming the 100+ pages of the 2020 draft thread and I saw nothing about any mental or emotional issues about Haliburton. Maybe there was something in Haliburton thread I haven’t looked at yet.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Another point - if the Suns draft Haliburton, I'm not sure that trading for CP is anything of a certain. The Suns may well figure they have enough in Rubio + Haliburton to succeed in the short term, and may not want to interfere with developing Haliburton by getting Paul... not to mention not having to incur the extra expense.

That’s possible, but I don’t think an unproven rookie changes the suns course in taking on Paul. Those are two very different things. Jones was stoked to get Paul’s leadership as his third star.

 

[Chaplin]

You are right. The Chris Paul trade was made two days before the draft.

Still there were questions about whether Cam Payne would be the same player for a season that he was in the bubble. The Suns needed another point guard and Haliburton was considered BPA.

Hindsight is 20/20 but we also had Carter, so between him and Payne, I’m thinking the Suns just didn’t see it as big of a need.

And honestly how can anyone not think that big man was a bigger need? I’m sure they thought Smith might be further along, and if that’s the case I can see why they wanted to go with Jalen Smith.

 

[Mainstreet]

Hindsight is 20/20 but we also had Carter, so between him and Payne, I’m thinking the Suns just didn’t see it as big of a need.

And honestly how can anyone not think that big man was a bigger need? I’m sure they thought Smith might be further along, and if that’s the case I can see why they wanted to go with Jalen Smith.

Always draft BPA. Haliburton was projected to be drafted earlier than 10.

 

[Chaplin]

Always draft BPA. Haliburton was projected to be drafted earlier than 10.

Big man wasn’t a need?

 

[Raindog]

Yeah, this really is a case of 20-20 hindsight to me. Ten other teams passed on Haliburton, too. And I still think it's too early to call Smith a bust. Injuries and not a lot of available minutes with the Suns depth have really worked against him thus far.

 

[Mainstreet]

Big man wasn’t a need?

Always draft BPA.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, this really is a case of 20-20 hindsight to me. Ten other teams passed on Haliburton, too. And I still think it's too early to call Smith a bust. Injuries and not a lot of available minutes with the Suns depth have really worked against him thus far.

it’s not hindsight when people were BEGGING for the Suns to take him when it came to our spot. That’s called foresight.