What is the plan?

[AzStevenCal]

Imagine if the Suns get Zion...and are still bad.

That's not all that hard to imagine. I don't think he walks onto the court and solves all our problems but I'm confident he will make a healthy Suns team a much better team. But when you're this bad, "much better" doesn't necessarily mean good.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Imagine if the Suns get Zion...and are still bad.

Why do that?

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Why do that?

Just a commentary on how one player doesn't solve systemic issues. Counterpoint...LeBron solved a lot of issues for a really terrible Cleveland franchise. I just find it fascinating that the team is somehow worse after getting a year older and adding serious rookie talent. I personally think Zion solves a lot of issues for the Suns. If we got him and he didn't make us appreciably better, I think we would potentially be looking at an existential issue for the Suns.

(Of course, it was also a rushed message board post that potentially conveyed none of that nuance, and I apologize if it was taken as anything more than a potentially scary thought experiment.)

 

[slinslin]

Would anyone do Tyler Johnson and our pick if it is not top 3 for Aaron Gordon?

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Would anyone do Tyler Johnson and our pick if it is not top 3 for Aaron Gordon?

I would. Gordon has as much upside as anyone past the top 3 in this draft imho, fills a need, and is a reasonably proven talent. As a bonus, his contract actually goes down each of the next three years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Would anyone do Tyler Johnson and our pick if it is not top 3 for Aaron Gordon?

I'd probably do that. Gordon seems like the perfect 4 to put next to Ayton, adds another great athlete who plays bigger than he is and has continued to get better offensively ever year in the league. He's hovered around 33-34% from 3 the last couple years. If he can continue that upward trajectory and get to be a consistent 36% or better shoot there, he'd be a perfect addition.

Would Orlando do that tho? Didn't they just sign him to a big contract extension?

 

[Chaplin]

Would anyone do Tyler Johnson and our pick if it is not top 3 for Aaron Gordon?

Yep.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Would Orlando do that tho? Didn't they just sign him to a big contract extension?

I think there's a chance they would move him just because they've invested so much in the frontcourt and could conceivably use a high lottery pick on the backcourt. They did just resign him, but the Clippers resigned Griffin...Their best player is a center, as is their highly prized rookie. Jonathan Isaac and Aaron Gordon might not be a great fit together, which means arguably their top 4 assets play the same two power positions. It feels counter to the current zeitgeist, especially if they decide both Gordon and Isaac are natural fours.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Would anyone do Tyler Johnson and our pick if it is not top 3 for Aaron Gordon?

If it was three, yes.

 

[95pro]

Aaron Gordon has improved each season. I didn't think he'd reach the level he is at right now. Before he was just an athlete, now he can score even from 3pt land.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just a commentary on how one player doesn't solve systemic issues. Counterpoint...LeBron solved a lot of issues for a really terrible Cleveland franchise. I just find it fascinating that the team is somehow worse after getting a year older and adding serious rookie talent. I personally think Zion solves a lot of issues for the Suns. If we got him and he didn't make us appreciably better, I think we would potentially be looking at an existential issue for the Suns.

(Of course, it was also a rushed message board post that potentially conveyed none of that nuance, and I apologize if it was taken as anything more than a potentially scary thought experiment.)

I mentioned this earlier this morning as well. It's hard to understand how the Suns can be worse than last year's team.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2018.html

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I mentioned this earlier this morning as well. It's hard to understand how the Suns can be worse than last year's team.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2018.html

Injuries? Effort? They didn't lose a single good player off last year's team (except Bledsoe, who was on that team for like 3 games, which he phoned in) and added some exciting players (Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Holmes ) this year. They got younger with Ayton and Bridges and the point guards, but some of the other young guys have one more year experience than they did.

Basically, last year's team was awful and that was to be expected given the talent. This year's team is so young and lacks a legit starter at two positions...but those were issues last year too with less talent. Them being even worse now is both confounding and extremely disappointing.

 

[Mainstreet]

Injuries? Effort? They didn't lose a single good player off last year's team (except Bledsoe, who was on that team for like 3 games, which he phoned in) and added some exciting players (Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Holmes ) this year. They got younger with Ayton and Bridges and the point guards, but some of the other young guys have one more year experience than they did.

Basically, last year's team was awful and that was to be expected given the talent. This year's team is so young and lacks a legit starter at two positions...but those were issues last year too with less talent. Them being even worse now is both confounding and extremely disappointing.

It's perplexing. The Suns even sit Booker for a number of games last season.

I do think changes are in order but there is no one I have confidence in making the changes.

It starts with Sarver and goes all the way down.

 

[boisesuns]

I would be curious to see if by the middle of July we feel better or the same about the team Going forward...

 

[Mainstreet]

I would be curious to see if by the middle of July we feel better or the same about the team Going forward...

If fans do not feel better about the Suns going forward in July, this franchise is in a world of hurt.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I mentioned this earlier this morning as well. It's hard to understand how the Suns can be worse than last year's team.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2018.html

Devin Booker. 38% from three last year. 32% from three this year. With the volume he shoots, and his being first option in our offense, this is the most pertinent variable I can find. I am pretty confident that if Book was shooting 40% from three this year, we would have 5-6 more wins at least.

 

[Mainstreet]

Devin Booker. 38% from three last year. 32% from three this year. With the volume he shoots, and his being first option in our offense, this is the most pertinent variable I can find. I am pretty confident that if Book was shooting 40% from three this year, we would have 5-6 more wins at least.

I think you are right, it would have helped. However, the Suns should have been an improved team this season to help account for the fluctuation in Booker's shooting and time off for injury.

Maybe Triano did not get enough credit for the job he did with the Suns weaker roster last season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think you are right, it would have helped. However, the Suns should have been an improved team this season to help account for the fluctuation in Booker's shooting and time off for injury.

Maybe Triano did not get enough credit for the job he did with the Suns weaker roster last season.

No they sucked. What we are seeing this year is some grotesque bastardization of basketball that has at its root a myriad of contributing factors.

 

[1Sun]

No they sucked. What we are seeing this year is some grotesque bastardization of basketball that has at its root a myriad of contributing factors.

By bastardization, I take it you mean the senseless forcing of Euro-ball on a roster of American players.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Last year they beat all the tankers.
Memphis three times, Kings three times, Dallas three times. They beat the powerful Hawks and Lakers too. Yep last years team was great.................

 

[Mainstreet]

No they sucked. What we are seeing this year is some grotesque bastardization of basketball that has at its root a myriad of contributing factors.

It sounds about right.

Maybe another way to put it, McDonough made a lot of mistakes as GM especially the failure to find a point guard to run the team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No they sucked. What we are seeing this year is some grotesque bastardization of basketball that has at its root a myriad of contributing factors.

There are a lot of factors but I still believe far too much youth is the biggest issue. Ayton, for example, shows a lot of promise but there are probably 200 players in the NBA that add more to a winning club than he does. Bridges does a lot of things well too and is very promising but again, there's at least a couple hundred players that have more of an impact than he does. Same thing can be said about Oubre and even more so about Jackson. Melton and Okobo are not even in the same class as those guys, if they played for another team they'd likely never see the court in their rookie season.

Beyond youth, we have no continuity from previous seasons and no mid-career veterans that know how to win and can actually take part in it. Furthermore, our best player has missed a lot of games and when he's played he's either been just off the rehab table or in need of serious game conditioning. Our 2nd best player has missed a lot of games and also apparently played much of the season with a troublesome foot/ankle problem.

We've also had a tough schedule, tougher than last season if for no other reason than the other (previously) bad teams in the West are a lot stronger. Add in the new coaching crew and new system on both ends and the overall upheaval within the organization and our record starts to make sense. Even with all that I'd say we're still worse than we should be but not by much IMO. This is the price you pay for the decisions and mistakes we've made the past few years.

 

[Chaplin]

There are a lot of factors but I still believe far too much youth is the biggest issue. Ayton, for example, shows a lot of promise but there are probably 200 players in the NBA that add more to a winning club than he does. Bridges does a lot of things well too and is very promising but again, there's at least a couple hundred players that have more of an impact than he does. Same thing can be said about Oubre and even more so about Jackson. Melton and Okobo are not even in the same class as those guys, if they played for another team they'd likely never see the court in their rookie season.

Beyond youth, we have no continuity from previous seasons and no mid-career veterans that know how to win and can actually take part in it. Furthermore, our best player has missed a lot of games and when he's played he's either been just off the rehab table or in need of serious game conditioning. Our 2nd best player has missed a lot of games and also apparently played much of the season with a troublesome foot/ankle problem.

We've also had a tough schedule, tougher than last season if for no other reason than the other (previously) bad teams in the West are a lot stronger. Add in the new coaching crew and new system on both ends and the overall upheaval within the organization and our record starts to make sense. Even with all that I'd say we're still worse than we should be but not by much IMO. This is the price you pay for the decisions and mistakes we've made the past few years.

Come on Steve. 200? That’s saying that every starter in the league plus 50 more bench players add more to their team than Ayton does. He has his issues but that’s pretty over exaggerated.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Come on Steve. 200? That’s saying that every starter in the league plus 50 more bench players add more to their team than Ayton does. He has his issues but that’s pretty over exaggerated.

I disagree Chap but regardless it was NOT intended to be hyperbole. I seriously doubt he'd even start for a single team if he'd been drafted outside of the lottery and there are a lot of teams he wouldn't even get off the bench for. He dominates for very short periods but it's not an exaggeration to say he has little to no positive impact the rest of the time. There are players that don't put up even half his numbers that contribute more to the outcome than he does.

And note that I'm talking about the Ayton of today, the Ayton that started the season was a little more involved. So I'm hoping that the rookie wall has a lot to do with what's going on right now.

 

[Mainstreet]

The lottery is such a crapshoot. I ran the simulator about 10 times and the Suns finished #1 only once.

This represented some of the bad scenarios that came up:

Memphis
Dallas
Bulls
Pelicans
Suns

Some team that is not near meltdown could easily win the lottery.