What is the plan?

[Proximo]

L Ball for Warren?

You guys would really rather trade Warren than Jackson? Not me.

Warren is a 6th man - and he would be damn good at that. We need a PF that can play d, and rebound next to Ayton. But I think it would be silly to get rid of Warren for the likely value we would get for him.

I think we are going to make a trade for a pg before the deadline - and honestly I think it is going to involve our first round pick. I am just praying they have enough sense to at least top one protect it, because if we lose out on Zion, I am not sure I could be a Suns fan anymore.

There is a reason the Suns are in no hurry to hire scouts - they don't plan on needing them this year.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You guys would really rather trade Warren than Jackson? Not me.

Warren is a 6th man - and he would be damn good at that. We need a PF that can play d, and rebound next to Ayton. But I think it would be silly to get rid of Warren for the likely value we would get for him.

I think we are going to make a trade for a pg before the deadline - and honestly I think it is going to involve our first round pick. I am just praying they have enough sense to at least top one protect it, because if we lose out on Zion, I am not sure I could be a Suns fan anymore.

There is a reason the Suns are in no hurry to hire scouts - they don't plan on needing them this year.

Yes but I'm assuming that Warren has greater trade value. But sure, I'd trade Josh first if he had enough value to be the prize in a PG trade.

 

[taz02]

The schedule does get better. Though we have already lost to teams representing more than half the remaining schedule.

We'll be lucky to finish with 25 wins. 21 or 22 wins is more likely.

 

[elindholm]

When considering trading players away, remember that their value to a new team matters as much as their value to the Suns. If you trade away only players you don't want, you don't get anything in return.

If anyone wants to give value for Jackson, I say make the move now. He needs to be in a disciplined system where his responsibilities are well defined. With the Suns, it's every man for himself, and that exposes his weaknesses.

The Suns were going to lose last night's game against the Clippers anyway, but the key blow that derailed their desperate comeback was when Jackson tried to force something idiotic from the top of the circle at the start of a critical possession, fed the ball right to the Clippers, and gave up a fast-break layup. It's something like that nearly every game with him, and it comes from being on a team that's asking him to be more than he can be. (Plus the fact that his basketball IQ is so appallingly low.)

Warren is also a candidate to be moved. He's the second oldest player in the rotation behind Crawford and among the most fundamentally sound (which isn't saying much). Looking at his body language, the constant losing seems to wearing on him more than anyone except maybe Booker. It would not surprise me if Warren has already asked for a trade. Booker may also have, but the Suns have to keep him.

Warren is a proven scorer who has expanded his range and is on a good contract. I'd rather keep Warren than Jackson, but Warren has more value and would bring back more in return. And, sadly, I don't see a long-term future for him in Phoenix, because there is only so much he can do and his patience is nearing its limit.

Bridges is undersized and Oubre is limited offensively, but either of them could be a rotation player in a 3-and-D role. Both appear to be better prospects than Jackson. Warren did the one thing people were asking him to do, which was become a good three-point shooter, and his reward has been to be stuck on an even worse team than last season's fiasco. It's a mess all around, but the Suns need to be open-minded and listen to anyone who seems to have a serious interest.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The schedule does get better. Though we have already lost to teams representing more than half the remaining schedule.

We'll be lucky to finish with 25 wins. 21 or 22 wins is more likely.

This team today probably won't win 25 games. But this team on an average night is noticeably better than the November team on an average night and I expect that trend to continue. Plus, I made my initial prediction on this team with the expectation that we'd acquire a decent PG and while it's going to come later than it should have, I still believe we'll add a competent PG by the trade deadline.

 

[Carolinacacti]

They need to trout the Morris twins, Len, Bled and Book out. Age helps win games, so does Management. They need a PF to help the Ball less one and move Warren back to SF. Tell Booker to pull his head out and have Bridges play with him. My god the Bench is fast

 

[Mainstreet]

OK. We can try to trade for Rubio now. Utah would probably be willing to try to salvage something from his impending departure anyway. It give us Bird rights to sign him.

Anderson, Melton (or Okobo, whichever they want) plus whatever picks are necessary (Our top 8 protected pick otherwise it becomes the Bucks pick and three seconds).
for

Rubio, Udoh (not playing now), and Sefolosha (only getting 11 minutes per game)

Just trying to put something out there that makes sense for both teams. Anderson's contract is a huge negative that is hard to gauge. Melton for Rubio is a fair trade. They are going to lose Rubio and Melton is a young player they can develop. We have to give up the pick to move Anderson, who is necessary in the deal in order to match salaries.

I can't imagine any team wanting Anderson as he has another year on his contract unless the Suns are taking a worse contract back.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns could have used the Rivers contract to help get Rubio but the Suns waived him.

 

[Proximo]

What potential PG on the market would be worth Warren?

I would include him in a deal for Brogdan I suppose. But not for Russel, Rubio or Dennis Smith.

Efficient 20 PPG scorers are rare - even more rare are 25 year old ones with a good contract. It would be idiotic to give him away for a subpar PG.

 

[Proximo]

The Suns could have used the Rivers contract to help get Rubio but the Suns waived him.

I have to agree, I do not understand why they bought him out. Tell him to stay home till the deadline if he refused to play for us. We gave away an asset for no good reason.

 

[Mainstreet]

I have to agree, I do not understand why they bought him out. Tell him to stay home till the deadline if he refused to play for us. We gave away an asset for no good reason.

It's almost like the Suns want to be bad.

I could say it's for the draft but there is a fair chance they trade their first rounder.

 

[1Sun]

They are worse than I expected but not really by that much. I expected close to 30 wins which is looking high but we have an easier remaining schedule than we've played to date so I don't think we'll miss it by much.

Sadly, they are exactly as I expected.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's important to understand where Phoenix is headed.

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[Proximo]

It's almost like the Suns want to be bad.

I could say it's for the draft but there is a fair chance they trade their first rounder.

You know actually I just realized something - we could not trade rivers with another player before the deadline - only picks, and his value is quite low. Actually negative for his salary level.

So I guess the odds we would have been able to use him in a trade would be a longshot. I think Jones did it because he wants a player friendly reputation.

Still does not seem like the right move to me, but maybe I understand now why they justified it to themselves.

 

[overseascardfan]

This team needs a defensive PF who can rebound and a PG who can pass and defend and score if necessary as there have been games where Warren and Ayton aren't scoring enough to help Booker on offense. Unfortunately, at this point you are looking for stop gaps because the pieces PHX needs aren't available in trade. You can get Vonleh but I don't know if his defense is enough to hide Ayton in games he's not motivated to play defense. PHX needs someone like a Myles Turner or Anthony Davis type of difference maker but those guys aren't available. As for PG, PHX needs a Russell Westbrook / De'Aaron Fox type to play alongside Booker. Noah Vonleh, Bobby Portis, D'Angelo Russell, Tyus Jones, Jeff Teague are guys PHX can get at deadline but how much better do they make PHX? Say we get guys who take us from a 20 win team to a 25 win team, all that does it possibly take us out of the Zion Williamson / Ja Morant draft range. I know some of you on this board are Morant critics but I see him as the next De'Aaron Fox. Fox was not a great 3pt shooter coming out of Kentucky but he improved as I feel Morant will too. Morant's main weakness is his 3pt shot and turnovers but on a team where he doesn't have to do it all that should help him cut down on them. He can score, pass & defend and has Fox type quickness with the ball. Zion is obviously the best case scenario for PHX but if we don't get him I would take Morant now that bum feet may derail Bol's long term NBA future.

I would try to get Russell to at least appease Booker for rest of this year playing with his friend and if he pans out then sign him long term if not see if you can get Morant & Zion in the draft. To improve post defense maybe see if we can get Noel from OKC, he had his way with Ayton a couple of weeks ago.

Ayton
Noel
Bridges
Booker
Russell

 

[1Sun]

The level of competition faced by Fox and Morant is like night and day. I maintain that Morant isn't any more of a point guard prospect than what we already have in Okobo and Melton, namely in all likely not a future NBA starting point guard but rather an energizer off the bench with a ceiling along the lines of a Monta Ellis. If this team is tanking for the likes of Ja Morant, we in even bigger trouble than I thought. Again, unless and until Morant either elevates his team to even 1 win over high-major competition (let alone the Elite Eight to which Curry led his Davidson team) or demonstrates an elite skill, he is not the answer, and certainly not in the top 5 of the draft.

I think Russell is the way to go at this point, particularly with Booker getting more and more noticeably frustrated. Tyus Jones or Jeff Teague would be fine as well.

 

[Mainstreet]

You know actually I just realized something - we could not trade rivers with another player before the deadline - only picks, and his value is quite low. Actually negative for his salary level.

So I guess the odds we would have been able to use him in a trade would be a longshot. I think Jones did it because he wants a player friendly reputation.

Still does not seem like the right move to me, but maybe I understand now why they justified it to themselves.

It's a good point. Maybe the contracts would not have been close enough to work.

Nevertheless the Suns negated themselves the opportunity to use Chandler and Rivers as trade chips.

 

[Proximo]

The level of competition faced by Fox and Morant is like night and day. I maintain that Morant isn't any more of a point guard prospect than what we already have in Okobo and Melton, namely in all likely not a future NBA starting point guard but rather an energizer off the bench with a ceiling along the lines of a Monta Ellis. If this team is tanking for the likes of Ja Morant, we in even bigger trouble than I thought. Again, unless and until Morant either elevates his team to even 1 win over high-major competition (let alone the Elite Eight to which Curry led his Davidson team) or demonstrates an elite skill, he is not the answer, and certainly not in the top 5 of the draft.

I think Russell is the way to go at this point, particularly with Booker getting more and more noticeably frustrated. Tyus Jones or Jeff Teague would be fine as well.

I'm sorry your just wrong.

When you see a guy that can blow past dudes with great athleticism like Morant can - that translates to all levels of competition.

He is not shooting great - but his form looks pretty good, so I am not worried about that. If there is anything about Morant that might be problematic, it is his defense.

 

[Town Drunk]

You must be registered for see images attach

That’s how I view the front office currently.

 

[1Sun]

I'm sorry your just wrong.

When you see a guy that can blow past dudes with great athleticism like Morant can - that translates to all levels of competition.

He is not shooting great - but his form looks pretty good, so I am not worried about that. If there is anything about Morant that might be problematic, it is his defense.

And his poor court vision. And his shot selection. Remember that Monta Ellis could also blow past dudes with great athleticism.

 

[Proximo]

I am just going to mention this again because some people still don't seem to know the new lottery rules.

Lottery chances
worst record 14% chance
2nd worst record 14% chance
3rd worst record 14% chance
4th worst record 12.5% chance
5th worst record 10.5% chance
6th worst record 9% chance
7th worst record 7.5% chance

There is very little difference in the odds of 1st to 6th worst record in terms of getting the first pick. There is no good reason to actively tank to have the absolute worst record.

Going from 20 - 25 wins likely means almost nothing in terms of our odds of first pick. We should want to go to 25 wins with the current way the rules work now.

 

[Proximo]

And his poor court vision. And his shot selection. Remember that Monta Ellis could also blow past dudes with great athleticism.

Yeah, and that translated into him being a good scorer at the NBA level for a long time.

Morant's court vision looks pretty good to me. He's not Nash - but there is a reason he has one of the highest assist averages in the nation.

 

[Cheesebeef]

i can't believe part of the plan is almost zero college scouting. That seems beyond idiotic and backing us into a corner draft wise where we might either make a drastic trade using the lotto pick or just be caught completely flat-footed if they can't make a good trade using the lotto pick and blowing another one.

Can anyone make a good argument for why the team shouldn't be diving into scouting with such an atrocious team and a likely top 5 lotto pick on the way? I understand their idea to use that pick to hopefully get a vet (I don't agree with it necessarily, but I understand that is supposed to be part of their plan), but wouldn't you think they'd want to be prepared for either scenario to the best of their ability?

 

[JCSunsfan]

When considering trading players away, remember that their value to a new team matters as much as their value to the Suns. If you trade away only players you don't want, you don't get anything in return.

If anyone wants to give value for Jackson, I say make the move now. He needs to be in a disciplined system where his responsibilities are well defined. With the Suns, it's every man for himself, and that exposes his weaknesses.

The Suns were going to lose last night's game against the Clippers anyway, but the key blow that derailed their desperate comeback was when Jackson tried to force something idiotic from the top of the circle at the start of a critical possession, fed the ball right to the Clippers, and gave up a fast-break layup. It's something like that nearly every game with him, and it comes from being on a team that's asking him to be more than he can be. (Plus the fact that his basketball IQ is so appallingly low.)

Warren is also a candidate to be moved. He's the second oldest player in the rotation behind Crawford and among the most fundamentally sound (which isn't saying much). Looking at his body language, the constant losing seems to wearing on him more than anyone except maybe Booker. It would not surprise me if Warren has already asked for a trade. Booker may also have, but the Suns have to keep him.

Warren is a proven scorer who has expanded his range and is on a good contract. I'd rather keep Warren than Jackson, but Warren has more value and would bring back more in return. And, sadly, I don't see a long-term future for him in Phoenix, because there is only so much he can do and his patience is nearing its limit.

Bridges is undersized and Oubre is limited offensively, but either of them could be a rotation player in a 3-and-D role. Both appear to be better prospects than Jackson. Warren did the one thing people were asking him to do, which was become a good three-point shooter, and his reward has been to be stuck on an even worse team than last season's fiasco. It's a mess all around, but the Suns need to be open-minded and listen to anyone who seems to have a serious interest.

Agreed on most of this post, especially the idea that trading Warren would bring back more return. I never have considered Bridges undersized. He is very long for a 3.

 

[SirStefan32]

i can't believe part of the plan is almost zero college scouting. That seems beyond idiotic and backing us into a corner draft wise where we might either make a drastic trade using the lotto pick or just be caught completely flat-footed if they can't make a good trade using the lotto pick and blowing another one.

Can anyone make a good argument for why the team shouldn't be diving into scouting with such an atrocious team and a likely top 5 lotto pick on the way? I understand their idea to use that pick to hopefully get a vet (I don't agree with it necessarily, but I understand that is supposed to be part of their plan), but wouldn't you think they'd want to be prepared for either scenario to the best of their ability?

Well, from listening to Jones and even Sarver, I am guessing that the pick is getting traded. I tend to agree with that strategy, but they should absolutely be scouting. I am not sure how you know they are not, but if that's the case, that's a big miss. Even if they are trading the pick, we could end up in a scenario where they swap picks, or get a later pick in return, or something like that.