What is the plan?

[SirStefan32]

Wow, I really hope we're not that kind of an organization. I like Oubre but one of his biggest selling points IMO is that he WANTS to be here. Imagine how he's going to feel if we do something like this? I realize they all know it's a business but I can't see this ending well for us should we go this route.

I completely agree. Oubre wants to be here, and it would be terrible if the Suns messed with his contract/ hold.

 

[taz02]

I doubt Russel and Randle will take any discounts to come here. I think the pair would cost closer to 40m than 30m, but you never know.

The Oubre' thing is sketchy at best:

Kelly, Jones here......Hey, we are trying to get someone better than you and have offered your money to someone else. We will let you know at 11:59 pm on the last day of FA if he accepts. If he doesn't we really want you back.

 

[Folster]

I'm still confused by a recent conversation here but can't we trade to a team that can absorb salary cap without taking players back? Maybe something like Tyler and Jackson to Sacramento for a 2nd round pick? Obviously we'd have to add some value, hopefully a pick or two would do rather than having to include Bridges.

Waive and stretch is a cap move that allows teams to waive a player and stretch their salary over multiple years. I believe 3 years is the max. The Suns could waive and stretch Tyler's remaining 19 million the result would be a little over 6 million a year in dead money that would count against the cap for the next 3 years. Stretching and waiving Tyler would open up an additional 13 million this off-season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It does allow us to make the offer and then determine other ways to create the space later—Trade other players, stretch Tyler etc. If it weren’t for Oubre’s contract we would have to create the space first. At least that is how I think it works.

I understood that, I was talking about the message that sends to a young player that has declared his love for the city and team? It's a business but that seems a little cutthroat unless we've already told him he wasn't a long term option for us. OTOH, if he's simply using us for contract leverage then I guess this would be a reasonable approach.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Waive and stretch is a cap move that allows teams to waive a player and stretch their salary over multiple years. I believe 3 years is the max. The Suns could waive and stretch Tyler's remaining 19 million the result would be a little over 6 million a year in dead money that would count against the cap for the next 3 years. Stretching and waiving Tyler would open up an additional 13 million this off-season.

Sure but trading him for nothing opens up even more money and doesn't tie anything up in future years. I can't see how we'd bring those two in without making truly competitive bids for each player and that doesn't seem possible with the money cleared by waiving and stretching Tyler and even Josh.

 

[Hoop Head]

Waive and stretch is a cap move that allows teams to waive a player and stretch their salary over multiple years. I believe 3 years is the max. The Suns could waive and stretch Tyler's remaining 19 million the result would be a little over 6 million a year in dead money that would count against the cap for the next 3 years. Stretching and waiving Tyler would open up an additional 13 million this off-season.

They can stretch the payments over the life of contract's remaining guaranteed years time two and plus 1. So they could waive and stretch a player with 3 years left on their deal and it would be spread over 7 seasons equally. Tyler only has 1 year remaining so that would be 2 years if doubled and then adding the other year makes it 3 years in total that it's spread over. Some teams have stretched longer deals but it's generally only something done in the players last or second to late year on their deal.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

 

[Hoop Head]

I doubt Russel and Randle will take any discounts to come here. I think the pair would cost closer to 40m than 30m, but you never know.

The Oubre' thing is sketchy at best:

Kelly, Jones here......Hey, we are trying to get someone better than you and have offered your money to someone else. We will let you know at 11:59 pm on the last day of FA if he accepts. If he doesn't we really want you back.

As others have noted, that would allow the Suns to free up the space elsewhere then rather than deciding to dump Kelly. If they got a player like Brogdon to sign the offer sheet using the money from Kelly's cap hold then they could waive and stretch Tyler or trade him to free up that money rather than doing so prematurely when you don't know whether or not a player would even be interested in signing here.

Waiving Tyler just to make an offer to someone that they decline would be really bad but if they waived him after that player signed an offer sheet than it would be because the Suns believe that the players team won't match the offer.

It's not solely about making Kelly wait, it's about using that money to see if someone wants to come here and then whether they believe a team will match or not. The only way to make it work is not by dumping Oubre like you make it out to be.

 

[Yuma]

For starters Randle is going to get more than 12.7

And Russell is going to get more than 20!

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Sure but trading him for nothing opens up even more money and doesn't tie anything up in future years. I can't see how we'd bring those two in without making truly competitive bids for each player and that doesn't seem possible with the money cleared by waiving and stretching Tyler and even Josh.

It would be nearly impossible to find someone to trade for that contract right now. The only teams that would want to do it would want to ship a large salary back to us.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It would be nearly impossible to find someone to trade for that contract right now. The only teams that would want to do it would want to ship a large salary back to us.

Maybe but I think there are some teams with limited free agent prospects that might be willing to trade for what will soon become an expiring contract. If there's a team willing to live with Jackson's history and believe they can fix his game, the sweetener for him and Tyler's expiring contract might not be that high.

I could be way off base, it isn't something I spend a lot of time paying attention to, but it sure seems to me that I've seen several similar deals the past decade or so.

 

[GatorAZ]

Cap space options according to Dave King:

Currently (incl Oubre’s cap-hold) ~ 13.2m

Renounce Oubre ~ 23m

Trade JJ and one of Okobo or Melton (incl Oubre’s cap hold) ~ 21.5m

Stretch Tyler Johnson ~ 26m

Trade JJ and one of Okobo or Melton (+ renounce Oubre) ~ 32m

Trade JJ and one of Okobo/Melton + stretch TJ + renounce Oubre ~ 45m

 

[Yuma]

Cap space options according to Dave King:

Currently (incl Oubre’s cap-hold) ~ 13.2m

Renounce Oubre ~ 23m

Trade JJ and one of Okobo or Melton (incl Oubre’s cap hold) ~ 21.5m

Stretch Tyler Johnson ~ 26m

Trade JJ and one of Okobo or Melton (+ renounce Oubre) ~ 32m

Trade JJ and one of Okobo/Melton + stretch TJ + renounce Oubre ~ 45m

Looking at all that, and I am thinking, gut feeling, we sign Oubre, who wants to be here, and if it's Ricky Rubio or whoever else as a stop gap, I can roll with that for a season. Puts us better than we were last year at PG, we upgrade SF with Oubre who proved he's our best SF, we actually have a PF, plus Ayton and Booker. We upgrade the three spots aside from Booker and Ayton. Better team than last year right there.

No one will want JJ, Melton or Okoboe for nothing in return to help us clear cap space. We will have to use draft picks, or take players with worse contracts back. Eventually it boils down to us giving up future draft picks. I say no.

 

[1Sun]

Looking at all that, and I am thinking, gut feeling, we sign Oubre, who wants to be here, and if it's Ricky Rubio or whoever else as a stop gap, I can roll with that for a season. Puts us better than we were last year at PG, we upgrade SF with Oubre who proved he's our best SF, we actually have a PF, plus Ayton and Booker. We upgrade the three spots aside from Booker and Ayton. Better team than last year right there.

Perhaps, but not by much.

 

[Yuma]

Perhaps, but not by much.

Granted, but in the mean time, we have two new draft picks to see how or if they develop. Maybe, Monty gets JJ turned around. Monty is more like Jay Triano, who seemed to know how to tough love JJ into a decent player.

 

[Proximo]

Granted, but in the mean time, we have two new draft picks to see how or if they develop. Maybe, Monty gets JJ turned around. Monty is more like Jay Triano, who seemed to know how to tough love JJ into a decent player.

JJ will not be on this team. They will cut him if they have to.

 

[Hoop Head]

Looking at all that, and I am thinking, gut feeling, we sign Oubre, who wants to be here, and if it's Ricky Rubio or whoever else as a stop gap, I can roll with that for a season. Puts us better than we were last year at PG, we upgrade SF with Oubre who proved he's our best SF, we actually have a PF, plus Ayton and Booker. We upgrade the three spots aside from Booker and Ayton. Better team than last year right there.

No one will want JJ, Melton or Okoboe for nothing in return to help us clear cap space. We will have to use draft picks, or take players with worse contracts back. Eventually it boils down to us giving up future draft picks. I say no.

I can see someone taking Melton, Okobo is less likely though. Melton is only making $1.4 million and if a team has a trade exception and needs depth at PG then they can do a lot worse than Melton. It's a minimal investment for a defensive specialist at PG as a 3rd stringer. He is better than most 2nd round picks selected this past draft. I don't think we'll get anything for him other than a heavily protected 2nd round pick that will expire and there is a chance we need to include a future 2nd round pick down the line but I don't think that will hold up finding a new home for him.

 

[95pro]

Jimmer was/is horrible.

I can see someone taking Melton, Okobo is less likely though. Melton is only making $1.4 million and if a team has a trade exception and needs depth at PG then they can do a lot worse than Melton. It's a minimal investment for a defensive specialist at PG as a 3rd stringer. He is better than most 2nd round picks selected this past draft. I don't think we'll get anything for him other than a heavily protected 2nd round pick that will expire and there is a chance we need to include a future 2nd round pick down the line but I don't think that will hold up finding a new home for him.

I don't think will be required to give a pick for Melton, teams know the defense he brings, one of the higher rated defensive guards in the league. Okobo has no value.

 

[Mainstreet]

Cory Joseph has reportedly received interest from the Suns.

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[1Sun]

Cory Joseph has reportedly received interest from the Suns.

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Shams Charania has also indicated the Suns are interested in Rondae Hollis-Jefferson. Just what we need...another wing who can't shoot or create for himself or others.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cory Joseph has reportedly received interest from the Suns.

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Smart, hard, and relatively poorly!

 

[devilalum]

Cory Joseph has reportedly received interest from the Suns.

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Sunderwhelmed Again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[overseascardfan]

Now that we know who the starters are after the Oubre eventual signing, what about the bench? So far it looks like Jackson, T. Johnson, Bridges, Okobo, C. Johnson, Jerome but what about another PF and/or C? I don't think Holmes and Bender come back so who would be out there for exceptions and minimums?

A crazy but interesting idea, what about waiving and stretching Johnson's contract and taking Capela from HOU for second round picks? You could solve slide Ayton to PF where he actually mentioned a preference to play that position and you get a defensive C who can rebound and cover the post defense. Capela is making roughly $18M for the next four years. That would shift Saric to second unit and add true depth at backup PF/C.

Yes, the idea would mean PHX would not be able to add any more pieces because the cap would be maxed but a Capela, Ayton, Oubre, Booker, Rubio starting 5 would be a very nice core for next 3 years.

 

[SirStefan32]

I am guessing that Oubre is going to be getting a lot of playing time at 4. I do agree that they need another big PF. I would honestly give Bender a two-year contract using part of the exception and make the second year a team option.

 

[Hoop Head]

Now that we know who the starters are after the Oubre eventual signing, what about the bench? So far it looks like Jackson, T. Johnson, Bridges, Okobo, C. Johnson, Jerome but what about another PF and/or C? I don't think Holmes and Bender come back so who would be out there for exceptions and minimums?

A crazy but interesting idea, what about waiving and stretching Johnson's contract and taking Capela from HOU for second round picks? You could solve slide Ayton to PF where he actually mentioned a preference to play that position and you get a defensive C who can rebound and cover the post defense. Capela is making roughly $18M for the next four years. That would shift Saric to second unit and add true depth at backup PF/C.

Yes, the idea would mean PHX would not be able to add any more pieces because the cap would be maxed but a Capela, Ayton, Oubre, Booker, Rubio starting 5 would be a very nice core for next 3 years.

If they did that they couldn't sign Rubio or Oubre. They don't have the space and Capela with Ayton is redundant.

 

[Yuma]

I am guessing that Oubre is going to be getting a lot of playing time at 4. I do agree that they need another big PF. I would honestly give Bender a two-year contract using part of the exception and make the second year a team option.

@Chaplin is saying we still have the MLE to add a player.