What is your "Lock of the Draft"?

[Tangodnzr]

So your contention is that Chad Pennington attempted only 12 passes the first two years of his carrer not because he wasn't ready for Prime Time, but because they couldn't afford to release Vinny Testaverde? Despite the reviews that Pennington was still too much of a cerebral QB and not instinctive enough (this is what they were saying when he was just starting)? Do you want to keep to that story?

I'm not saying that McCown and Pennington are the same player, or even similar ones, I'm just saying that neither were drafted to start right away.

Word !!!

 

[Tangodnzr]

The only lock I'm willing to venture at this point:

The Cards will not draft Gallery !!!

 

[kerouac9]

See the difference?

Absolutely. It seems like you're cutting with a finer knife than I am. I do think that Mike Vick was, and still is, a developmental prospect/player. I don't remember Steve Young coming to the game, so I can't comment on that. All draft picks are developmental, but there's a threshold where there's only so much that a prospect can learn in the classroom and from the sidelines and throwing nine passes in a season, and they have to get on the field full-time. When I refer to a "developmental" player, I mean a player that's going to take 1-2 seasons to take the starting job.

The distiction that you make and I failed to mention was between "developmental" players and "project" players. Its one group inside the other, as far as I'm concerned. McCown, Pennington, Carter, Vick, Palmer, Carr, and Harrington were all developmental players, but I personally think that Vick, Palmer, Carr, and Harrington were at the threshold where getting on the field was the top priority. Vick and Palmer were kept out (Palmer altogether, Vick only for the vast majority of the time), but I personally think that they were ready. McCown and Pennington were held back, and I think that it did each of them some good. Carter and McCown were/are probably project players that need(ed) to be broken down and built up before they were ready to take the field. Personally, I think that thier respective front offices failed to do so.

There are also QBs like Rohan Davey, Kurt Kittner, etc. that are projects that will NEVER see the field. Pet coaching projects.

Essentially, I think that you don't think I make a distinction between developmental prospects and projects. I understand, I just will lump them together because it's like looking at a pile of oranges, and if some of them are navels, they're all still oranges.

You do bring up an interesting point: Which of the QBs in this class are ready to step in immediately? Eli Manning, obviously. I think Phillip Rivers, probably (his stats'll be worse, but he has all the tools). I think that Losman would be as good as McCown is now if he were forced to start immediately, but would benefit greatly from a Pennington treatment. Everyone else, including Ben R., would need at least a year charting plays on the sideline before they were ready to snap on the chinstrap.

 

[RedStorm]

My lock of this draft:

That the "fans" (i.e. naysayers, darksiders, whatever you wanna call 'em) on this board will start no fewer then half a dozen threads, before the next two teams' picks are in (currently NY Giants & Deadskins),screaming about "how we drafted the wrong guy/Dennis Green sucks/Bidwill sucks/same ol' Cardinals/we're gonna suck again this season/we'll only win 2 games if we're lucky/etc."

Take it to the bank.

Already putting together my posts now and dating them for the day of the draft. I tell you...If this team does not draft SUGGS they are IDIOTS!!!!! (Opps...that was last year)....

 

[abomb]

A-Bomb sez: "Robert Gallery is the second coming of Orlando Pace."

A-Bomb

 

[BACH]

Green will draft Maurice Clarett with the 1st pick of the 3rd!

Just a gut-feeling.....

 

[Cardinal Bob]

Already putting together my posts now and dating them for the day of the draft. I tell you...If this team does not draft SUGGS they are IDIOTS!!!!! (Opps...that was last year)....

LOL! You're now being watched, RedStorm!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Absolutely. It seems like you're cutting with a finer knife than I am. I do think that Mike Vick was, and still is, a developmental prospect/player. I don't remember Steve Young coming to the game, so I can't comment on that. All draft picks are developmental, but there's a threshold where there's only so much that a prospect can learn in the classroom and from the sidelines and throwing nine passes in a season, and they have to get on the field full-time. When I refer to a "developmental" player, I mean a player that's going to take 1-2 seasons to take the starting job.

The distiction that you make and I failed to mention was between "developmental" players and "project" players. Its one group inside the other, as far as I'm concerned. McCown, Pennington, Carter, Vick, Palmer, Carr, and Harrington were all developmental players, but I personally think that Vick, Palmer, Carr, and Harrington were at the threshold where getting on the field was the top priority. Vick and Palmer were kept out (Palmer altogether, Vick only for the vast majority of the time), but I personally think that they were ready. McCown and Pennington were held back, and I think that it did each of them some good. Carter and McCown were/are probably project players that need(ed) to be broken down and built up before they were ready to take the field. Personally, I think that thier respective front offices failed to do so.

There are also QBs like Rohan Davey, Kurt Kittner, etc. that are projects that will NEVER see the field. Pet coaching projects.

Essentially, I think that you don't think I make a distinction between developmental prospects and projects. I understand, I just will lump them together because it's like looking at a pile of oranges, and if some of them are navels, they're all still oranges.

You do bring up an interesting point: Which of the QBs in this class are ready to step in immediately? Eli Manning, obviously. I think Phillip Rivers, probably (his stats'll be worse, but he has all the tools). I think that Losman would be as good as McCown is now if he were forced to start immediately, but would benefit greatly from a Pennington treatment. Everyone else, including Ben R., would need at least a year charting plays on the sideline before they were ready to snap on the chinstrap.

I wrote this huge post to reply and the site went down or something.

Lets just leave it at McCown to me is a project where as Pennington was/is not.

I see your point in lumping them in as all being devlopmental but I do take it further. Project's, IMO, have very little chance of success. Meaning they were drafted b/c the possess certain qualities that good QB's have but still need to be , as you put it, 'Broken down and built back up'. I dont think anyone would honestly say that Pennington fits that mold. He may very well be developmental, (as I think 99% are) but a project he is not.

As for this year I think Manning, Rivers and Roth all might start. Whether they are ready or not, who knows. I think the best indicator of success early is the ability to read defenses quickly and know what is coming at you. I think Manning and Rivers have that ability, Roth , frankly I just dont know.

Losman I consider a project and dont think he is nearly as good as the aformentioned three. I think he will be hard pressed to have any type of 'meaningful' NFL career!

 

[Cheesebeef]

My lock of this draft:

That the "fans" (i.e. naysayers, darksiders, whatever you wanna call 'em) on this board will start no fewer then half a dozen threads, before the next two teams' picks are in (currently NY Giants & Deadskins),screaming about "how we drafted the wrong guy/Dennis Green sucks/Bidwill sucks/same ol' Cardinals/we're gonna suck again this season/we'll only win 2 games if we're lucky/etc."

Take it to the bank.

what the hell does "fans" mean? Cardinal Bob - I'll just come out and say this - I think you are a jerk.

Sorry for being right last year.

 

[Cardinal Bob]

Wow! Thanks for that cheesie! Since I referred to nobody specifically, for you to assume I was talking about you shows unprecedented levels of some sort of ESP-like abilities! Impressive! You should talk to the NSA or the Pentagon! They could use someone like you!

As for what "fans" means? Try dictionary.com...if you don't have a copy of Webster's laying around. The definition should be easy enough to find. Good luck and have a geat day!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow! Thanks for that cheesie! Since I referred to nobody specifically, for you to assume I was talking about you shows unprecedented levels of some sort of ESP-like abilities! Impressive! You should talk to the NSA or the Pentagon! They could use someone like you!

As for what "fans" means? Try dictionary.com...if you don't have a copy of Webster's laying around. The definition should be easy enough to find. Good luck and have a geat day!

Also - no where in my first post did I assume you were talking about me - that's not necessary - for you to put quotation marks around fans intimates that you believe those people aren't really fans - correct? Otherwise enlighten me as to what why you thought it was necessary to called them "fans" as opposed to fans.

I'm on board with everything I've seen this offseason - but I still see people's loyalites being questioned for moves they don't like - and that's as much crap as it was last year. I mean I'm not going around calling people out as "fans" even though I've been applauding us this year - so why not show a little tolerance - especially for those people who the year had proved to show that they were right?

Doesn't change the fact that you're statement made to a group of people - whether you had me in mind or not - and I don't think you did - was something a jerk would say and has said numerous times here - as was your follow up response.

 

[40yearfan]

I find it interesting that Josh is now our QB of the future. How many times have I heard this before. The guy started 3 games and was mediocre. If this was poker then making him the QB of the future is like drawing to an inside straigtht. If you had your choice right now who would you select Josh,Ben,or Manning?

Josh. He presents our best chance for winning this year.

 

[Pariah]

Josh. He presents our best chance for winning this year.

I agree, but I think those chances are slim to none anyway.

A better question is does he present our best chance of winning in 2 years? In 5? In 10? Obviously, it's impossible to make a difinitive statement about that right now, but I'd put my monry on Ben or Eli for the future.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

My Lock

We won't draft a QB.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My lock of this draft:

That the "fans" (i.e. naysayers, darksiders, whatever you wanna call 'em) on this board will start no fewer then half a dozen threads, before the next two teams' picks are in (currently NY Giants & Deadskins),screaming about "how we drafted the wrong guy/Dennis Green sucks/Bidwill sucks/same ol' Cardinals/we're gonna suck again this season/we'll only win 2 games if we're lucky/etc."

Take it to the bank.

actually, that's incredibly closeminded of you. if you've read anything this offseason you'd see how many of us darksiders are actually excited about dennis green. that doesn't mean we're expecting wholesale changes, but at least it's a move in the right direction. i'm not sold on graves at all.

as for a 2-win prediction . . . did any of us predict that last year? no. in fact, i think i predicted 5 wins. so i guess you could really categorize me as a koolaider, right? ass.

 

[MadRob]

*Eli goes #1 no matter who picks there...

*The Cards first pick is a receiver, base on the following order ranking:
-Larry Fitz.
-M. Williams
-R. Williams

If for some reason those guys aren't available, the Cards just plain F* it up!!!


*What ever corner is picked on the first day, they will end up being forced to start this coming season...

 

[Evil Ash]

Alright here are my locks

1. Nobody will trade down in the top 5
2. The Cardinals will take either Fitz or Mike Williams (Fitz is higher rated but may not be available)
3. Phillip Rivers will have the best career out of all the QBs taken this year

 

[Avondale_Larry]

We'll draft a QB with pick #3, unless Ben & Eli go 1-2, in which case we take Fitz.

Everything else Green has been saying is smokescreen.

 

[buff17]

Could someone post a scouting report on Juilus Jones like the one that was posted on Turner?

OK MY lock of the draft, the Cards wont draft a QB in the first 2 rounds, and will take a running back on day 1.
Other predictions, McCown will go through some growing pains next season, but he will grow into a better player. He will end up being the starter here for a long time, and will be better then Plummer. Thats IF Dennis Green sticks with him next season, the most important season of Josh's career.

 

[kerouac9]

Could someone post a scouting report on Juilus Jones like the one that was posted on Turner?

Your wish is my command:

War Room analysis
Strengths: Is a shifty, quick and elusive runner. Has very good lateral quickness. Hips are fluid. Shows excellent initial quickness and burst to the hole. Does a nice job of turning the corner as a runner. Will find a lot of cutback lanes and has the ability to stop and start without losing much in transition. He has good top-end speed and shows a second gear in the open field. He is an elusive runner who will make defenders miss in space and has terrific hands catching the ball out of the backfield. He also has experience as a kickoff return man.

Weaknesses: Lacks great size. Has had some trouble staying healthy and has never carried a full load. He does not have great power as a runner and will not break enough tackles. Has had some trouble fumbling and can be a tentative runner. Needs to become more decisive. He also great experience in the passing game. Is especially green as a pass blocker and needs to improve his technique.

Bottom line: Jones, younger brother of Thomas Jones (Buccaneers), missed his entire 2002 season after failing to meat academic requirements. Rather than transfer, Jones took the season off, fulfilled the requirements at Arizona State and returned to Notre Dame for his final season of eligibility in ’03. There were a lot of questions about how strong he would be when he returned, but he answered most of those questions early. Jones returned to the Irish as a backup to Ryan Grant but quickly became their best offensive player and improved his draft value considerably during the season as well as with his strong performance at the Senior Bowl. He does not have the size to risk a first or second round pick, but Jones would be a great value in the third round because he should be able to return kicks and could emerge as a full-time starter in the NFL. Jones would be an ideal fit in a West Coast offensive system that puts a premium on catching the football.

Dan Pompei analysis
Came on strong as a senior. Has quickness and runs hard. Has good hands. Is smaller than the ideal.

Grade: 79
Alerts: (B: BULK/SIZE) Lacks size/bulk for position
(M: MENTAL) Does not retain and learn the system

Comments: Jones is a shifty, quick and elusive runner with very good lateral quickness and fluid hips. He has excellent initial quickness and burst to the hole, does a nice job of turning the corner, finds cutback lanes and has very good agility. Jones can stop and start without losing much in transition. He has good top-end speed and shows a second gear in the open field. He is elusive and can make defenders miss in space. He is an inexperienced receiver but has terrific hands and is a huge threat when he has the ball in space. He also has experience as a kickoff return man and could perform that role in the NFL. But there are problems here. Jones missed 2002 because he was academically ineligible. He lacks size, has had problems staying healthy and has never really carried a full load. He lacks power as a runner and will not break tackles. Has had some trouble fumbling and can be tentative at times -- dancing too much and not making good decisions. He is especially green as a pass blocker and must improve his technique. Jones is the younger brother of Thomas Jones (Buccaneers). When he missed his entire 2002 season after failing to meet academic requirements, Julius took the season off, fulfilled his requirements at Arizona State and returned to Notre Dame for his final season of eligibility. There were a lot of questions about how strong Jones would be and what condition he would be in when he returned, but he answered those early. Jones quickly became the Irish's best offensive player and improved his draft value considerably. Jones is small, but he runs hard, is quick, shifty and elusive. He could be the type of player who flourishes in the NFL after a trying college experience. He would be a great value in the third round because he should return kicks and emerge as a full-time starter in a West Coast offense that puts a premium on good receivers.

 

[Zeno]

My Lock

The one thing I can absolutely guarantee is that if the Cardinals draft an offensive lineman in rounds 1 or 2(including the overhyped Gallery) I will put my foot through my TV a split second after the commisioner announces the pick.


Other than that my other lock is this...the Steelers WILL draft a QB in round 1 if Manning, Ben or Rivers falls to their pick. (I can't believe they really think they have a future with Maddox and Batch).

 

[CardShark]

My Lock

5 cornerbacks go in the first round

 

[kerouac9]

5 cornerbacks go in the first round

Good luck with that.