What pick would you need to get to trade Josh Rosen or is he completely off the table?

[juza76]

when the offensive line collapse rosen is at the mercy of events meanwhile murray trying to fight in order to make something happen

 

[juza76]

Are you really in Milan, Italy bro?

yes very far

 

[DVontel]

in this league u need to win , the job is safe if u win enough games, so it works also for murray, but as a rookie he can have a negative record as well but what u expect is a guy that can show enough talent and very solid mindset to give u some hope for the future and not a player who get worse week by week and looking like a lost dog

Yea but you keep dodging my question

That means Kyler getting “worse week by week and looking like a lost dog”. Just say you’ll stick with Kyler cause you’re too enormed with his traits.

 

[DVontel]

when the offensive line collapse rosen is at the mercy of events meanwhile murray trying to fight in order to make something

Well we wouldn’t know this considering Kyler played behind the best OL in football last season.

 

[DVontel]

Hate arguing against Kyler too because I loved watching the guy play for 6-7 years now but I cannot let blind homerism for Kyler & blind dissatisfaction for Rosen get in the way.

 

[juza76]

Well we wouldn’t know this considering Kyler played behind the best OL in football last season.

the game with alabama the offesive line couldnt contain alabama rushers and he played enough good
to me clemson offensive line looked much better against bama
so i dont know how oklahoma was ranked the best line

 

[juza76]

Yea but you keep dodging my question

That means Kyler getting “worse week by week and looking like a lost dog”. Just say you’ll stick with Kyler cause you’re too enormed with his traits.

yes love sometimes make us blind
kiddin

 

[DVontel]

the game with alabama the offesive line couldnt contain alabama rushers and he played enough good
to me clemson offensive line looked much better against bama
so i dont know how oklahoma was ranked the best line

Idk about that, they just couldn’t contain Quinnen.

I’d say Kyler played good enough when the game was out of reach.

 

[HeHasRosen]

Idk about that, they just couldn’t contain Quinnen.

I’d say Kyler played good enough when the game was out of reach.

Idk how people use this game in Kylers defence. Bama started doggin it. It was 21-0 in the 1st Qrt. They were shutting him down. 31-10 at the half. It was far from a good game by him. He threw at least 2 passes that should have been intercepted. Probably 3. 3 of his passing TDs were to wide open WRs that scorched the corners. Then when Bama had to they scored 14 points in the 4th quarter. Not to mention QW nearly beheaded him.

 

[DRM08]

Well we wouldn’t know this considering Kyler played behind the best OL in football last season.

Pretty badass OL in high school too.

 

[DVontel]

Pretty badass OL in high school too.

Yup. Greg Little was on 2 of his championship squads.

One thing about Kyler is he had played on teams where the talent has vastly superceeded opposition in both HS & College with the exception of a few(DeSoto, Skyline, Southlake Carroll for HS & Texas & Bama for College)

 

[Solar7]

@DVontel's been fighting the good fight and asking the right questions.

Murray's floor is rock bottom. Like, potentially the worst draft pick in NFL history bottom. I'm not willing to take that risk.

 

[Harry]

As to the initial question the Cards have been offered a third. Expect that to go up to a second as the draft approaches. I still think NE likes him, but getting a first out of them is tough.

As to ranking, partly it’s about fit. Murray would be lower on boards of teams looking to use a pocket passer. Murray has serious deficits in reading defenses and identifying where the pressure will come from. I know some are chuckling about Rosen’s sacks but he had few hot read routes by receivers and the line was atrocious making adjustments. In fact often the rusher just pushed a linemen back in Rosen’s face. This is not to say Murray couldn’t develop these QB skills but he’s left the impression he’s not a student of the game. Keep in mind he intended to play baseball and if the going gets tough he may yet reverse his field and retire with a pile of money. Then go play baseball. That option could well weaken his resolve and it’s a major reason I wouldn’t take him at one.

As to pocket passers those I’ve spoken with are about equally divided between Haskins and Rosen. Many want to see Haskins show more on his Pro Day. If he doesn’t most put Rosen ahead of him. One concern I’m hearing is whether the beating Rosen took last year will impact his play. He wouldn’t be the first QB to have his pocket composure weakened by misuse. I number myself among the group that does not think it’s productive to throw a young QB to the wolves; bad, hard-to-break habits often result. I think this factor has hurt Rosen’s trade value.

 

[az jam]

As to the initial question the Cards have been offered a third. Expect that to go up to a second as the draft approaches. I still think NE likes him, but getting a first out of them is tough.

As to ranking, partly it’s about fit. Murray would be lower on boards of teams looking to use a pocket passer. Murray has serious deficits in reading defenses and identifying where the pressure will come from. I know some are chuckling about Rosen’s sacks but he had few hot read routes by receivers and the line was atrocious making adjustments. In fact often the rusher just pushed a linemen back in Rosen’s face. This is not to say Murray couldn’t develop these QB skills but he’s left the impression he’s not a student of the game. Keep in mind he intended to play baseball and if the going gets tough he may yet reverse his field and retire with a pile of money. Then go play baseball. That option could well weaken his resolve and it’s a major reason I wouldn’t take him at one.

As to pocket passers those I’ve spoken with are about equally divided between Haskins and Rosen. Many want to see Haskins show more on his Pro Day. If he doesn’t most put Rosen ahead of him. One concern I’m hearing is whether the beating Rosen took last year will impact his play. He wouldn’t be the first QB to have his pocket composure weakened by misuse. I number myself among the group that does not think it’s productive to throw a young QB to the wolves; bad, hard-to-break habits often result. I think this factor has hurt Rosen’s trade value.

The qb decision is the key to their long term success. I do like Josh Rosen and feel the Cards can build a solid team around him. Murray could put them in the Super Bowl or set the team back five years. IMO Murray is high risk high reward. I think staying with Rosen is the safer approach.

 

[slanidrac16]

As to the initial question the Cards have been offered a third. Expect that to go up to a second as the draft approaches. I still think NE likes him, but getting a first out of them is tough.

As to ranking, partly it’s about fit. Murray would be lower on boards of teams looking to use a pocket passer. Murray has serious deficits in reading defenses and identifying where the pressure will come from. I know some are chuckling about Rosen’s sacks but he had few hot read routes by receivers and the line was atrocious making adjustments. In fact often the rusher just pushed a linemen back in Rosen’s face. This is not to say Murray couldn’t develop these QB skills but he’s left the impression he’s not a student of the game. Keep in mind he intended to play baseball and if the going gets tough he may yet reverse his field and retire with a pile of money. Then go play baseball. That option could well weaken his resolve and it’s a major reason I wouldn’t take him at one.

As to pocket passers those I’ve spoken with are about equally divided between Haskins and Rosen. Many want to see Haskins show more on his Pro Day. If he doesn’t most put Rosen ahead of him. One concern I’m hearing is whether the beating Rosen took last year will impact his play. He wouldn’t be the first QB to have his pocket composure weakened by misuse. I number myself among the group that does not think it’s productive to throw a young QB to the wolves; bad, hard-to-break habits often result. I think this factor has hurt Rosen’s trade value.

Great. Let’s drsft a qb that has to go thru the growing pains all over again while facing blitz’s and defenses he’s never seen before. Taking Murray is like an Indy driver skipping a pit stop because he “thinks” he might have enough fuel. There have been so many illustrations of just how bad Rosen had it last year by experts who know a lot more about the game than we do. I have not heard 1 person, NOT ONE, say someone would be stupid to trade for Rosen. NOT ONE! Even the patriots are interested. For god sakes what does that tell you???

 

[TheCardFan]

Please be a huge smoke screen.

Drafting QB's is a crap shoot at best. Unless there was more going on behind the scenes (Cardinals FO has zero faith in Rosen developing), you can't give up on Rosen to take another risk on Murray.

I agree that Rosen would be the best QB coming out of the 2019 draft. With that said, you can't trade him for less than a 1st in a weak QB class (and take an 8m hit).

 

[JeffGollin]

Rosen was a top 10 pick a year ago.

For whatever the reason, he didn't play up to top 10 standards. But that doesn't mean he dropped off edge of the earth. When you package his core abilities with iffy 2018 production plus a year's worth of on the job training, IMO, he's still worth a 1st round pick.

Note - Teams may be reluctant to part with a #1 or don't have one to trade, so we might have to consider our #1 for a couple of 2's, a #2, #3 & #4, one or more key veterans - or whatever the Value Board shows. I'm not sure we should do any deal that doesn't start with a swap of #1's.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Go watch OSU vs Alabama tape if Murray

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It will definitely make you pause and wonder if Murray is a smart pick.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That’s a horrific take.


Lock will be on 4 different teams by 2026. He has a big arm & that’s where it ends.

Lock is the typical NFL QB draft bust.

Inaccurate, big arm. Won't get better in the NFL.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Imo the odds giving him more chance to be succesfull, despite the fact he is short is well built and personally i think his agility make him harder to tackle, take a look at alabama game

from what i have seen he has enough accuracy (showed by his completation percentage, 7 point higher then rosen and the td/int ratio) he can play in the pocket and can make nice medium and long throws,looks also more accurated in the short passes where rosen was abysmal, plus he offers something rosen doesnt, accuracy on his throws while running, rosen when is outside the pocket has 5% of chances of turning the play in something good

murray has been a winner in college, he has a winning attitude, rosen is used to lose games since the first year of college

Well built? He's skinny ASF!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Imo the odds giving him more chance to be succesfull, despite the fact he is short is well built and personally i think his agility make him harder to tackle, take a look at alabama game

from what i have seen he has enough accuracy (showed by his completation percentage, 7 point higher then rosen and the td/int ratio) he can play in the pocket and can make nice medium and long throws,looks also more accurated in the short passes where rosen was abysmal, plus he offers something rosen doesnt, accuracy on his throws while running, rosen when is outside the pocket has 5% of chances of turning the play in something good

murray has been a winner in college, he has a winning attitude, rosen is used to lose games since the first year of college

He was horrible in the Alabama game. Very inaccurate. He looked like Rosen did this year.

I was really starting to want Murray and then I watched his plays against Alabama and I saw similar play to what we saw from Rosen, except better supporting cast and playcaller.

 

[oaken1]

Rosen was a top 10 pick a year ago.

For whatever the reason, he didn't play up to top 10 standards. But that doesn't mean he dropped off edge of the earth. When you package his core abilities with iffy 2018 production plus a year's worth of on the job training, IMO, he's still worth a 1st round pick.

Note - Teams may be reluctant to part with a #1 or don't have one to trade, so we might have to consider our #1 for a couple of 2's, a #2, #3 & #4, one or more key veterans - or whatever the Value Board shows. I'm not sure we should do any deal that doesn't start with a swap of #1's.

a swap of #1's?? so you want to give away Rosen and the top pick in the draft for a bunch of second round picks??

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Go watch OSU vs Alabama tape if Murray

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It will definitely make you pause and wonder if Murray is a smart pick.

Thanks, this was very enlightening. I was expecting to see the transcendent qualities to which people refer... not there as much as I thought. Possible two picks, several overthrows, basically a Rosen game except the kid has excellent escapability. I prefer we stick with Rosen, not certain how Murray is an upgrade.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Thanks, this was very enlightening. I was expecting to see the transcendent qualities to which people refer... not there as much as I thought. Possible two picks, several overthrows, basically a Rosen game except the kid has excellent escapability. I prefer we stick with Rosen, not certain how Murray is an upgrade.

Murray has very little bad tape, but he hurt his team alot in the Alabama game.

Quite a few bad throws where Murray lost his composure due to perceived pass rush.

Unfortunately, this is really the only bad game tape he has. I say this because most of the other games, he threw from an extremely clean pocket that he wouldn't see playing with the Cardinals.

 

[oaken1]

Murray has very little bad tape, but he hurt his team alot in the Alabama game.

Quite a few bad throws where Murray lost his composure due to perceived pass rush.

Unfortunately, this is really the only bad game tape he has. I say this because most of the other games, he threw from an extremely clean pocket that he wouldn't see playing with the Cardinals.

but thats exactly why his lack of starting experience is a red flag...there just isnt a lot of tape on him against strong teams and what there is isn't good.
he did perform admirably against Bama's prevent defense though...........the kid is like a mobile Kirk Cousins...gets awesome stats when the game is already over.