What should the Cardinals do on Black Monday?

[DVontel]

Without a doubt. An elite pass rusher can transform an entire defense.

I’m not that tuned into college prospects this year. Is there a Bosa-esque kinda guy out there that could slip to 3 if we bottom out the rest of the year?

Will Anderson.

Remember Quinnen Williams vs Nick Bosa? It’s like that again, but Jalen Carter vs Will Anderson.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

This sounds much better in one’s head than actually doing. It’s not that easy to get a dancing partner that’s paying compensation where you’re not feeling ripped off. Not to mention, you don’t pass up an elite prospect for multiple lesser prospects.

Again, I said that I only want to trade down if a different GM is making the picks. If not Keim has to try and take the best prospect. The best way for this team to get better short and long term is to stockpile high picks/talent.

It would be a start. You realize drafting Jalen Carter also wouldn’t make us a good/great defense off-rip, right?

You don’t pass up an elite prospect just because you drafted supplementary pieces.

Of course. Personally I think Will Anderson will likely be drafted #2 overall anyway so a lot of this is moot.

You could say this about Jalen Carter or any other player in history.

Sure, but that is pretty disingenuous to say. I can show you proof of our high first round picks on defense not playing their rookie year.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Will Anderson.

Remember Quinnen Williams vs Nick Bosa? It’s like that again, but Jalen Carter vs Will Anderson.

Likely gone before we pick. We are sitting at #6 right now and our likely best outcome would be #3 pick overall.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

You don’t want to invest a pick on a potentially-elite pass-rusher? That’s exactly what we need. That’s what every team needs.

There are

Not particularly. I think he will be a great player, but it isn't the position I want to invest a top 5 pick.

Will Anderson is drawing comparison’s to Derrick Thomas. The Derrick Thomas who was considered a better pure pass rusher than Lawrence Taylor. Anderson is worthy of the #1 overall pick in the draft.

 

[DVontel]

Again, I said that I only want to trade down if a different GM is making the picks. If not Keim has to try and take the best prospect.

I feel like taking the best prospect at a premium position is the best decision regardless of who’s the GM. Drafting lesser talents because there’s multiple of them over one major building block just feels wrong.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

There are

Will Anderson is drawing comparison’s to Derrick Thomas. The Derrick Thomas who was considered a better pure pass rusher than Lawrence Taylor. Anderson is worthy of the #1 overall pick in the draft.

He is.

My point that seems to keep getting missed regarding my position:
I want our team to improve as quickly as possible. Jalen Carter would do that in a quicker time frame than Anderson, in my humble opinion.

 

[DVontel]

Likely gone before we pick. We are sitting at #6 right now and our likely best outcome would be #3 pick overall.

No it wouldn’t be. Outside of Houston, we’re only 1 game ahead of everyone else. The best outcome is still #2 overall.

 

[DVontel]

Jalen Carter would do that in a quicker time frame than Anderson, in my humble opinion.

How?

I would love either of them, but how?

Most DTs usually take a few seasons to finally get comfortable.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

No it wouldn’t be. Outside of Houston, we’re only 1 game ahead of everyone else. The best outcome is still #2 overall.

Do you see teams ahead of us in the draft picking up a win? The only one I can see is Denver picking up a win against us.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

How?

I would love either of them, but how?

Most DTs usually take a few seasons to finally get comfortable.

I see Carter forcing double teams and stuffing the run. This is only my opinion. I can't exactly prove anything regarding Carter vs Anderson either way.

 

[DVontel]

Do you see teams ahead of us in the draft picking up a win? The only one I can see is Denver picking up a win against us.

Broncos-Rams play each other the week after we play the Broncos. Broncos could also sneak a win against the Chargers.

Saints play the Falcons, Browns, & Panthers. Can easily win a game or two there.

Bears’ road is tougher, but they could beat Detroit & possibly Minnesota if they’re resting starters.


This also hinges on us losing out though. We MUST lose the Denver & Tampa games.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Without a doubt. An elite pass rusher can transform an entire defense.

I’m not that tuned into college prospects this year. Is there a Bosa-esque kinda guy out there that could slip to 3 if we bottom out the rest of the year?

Will Anderson from bama is that stud.

 

[daves]

kyler being a qb,...especially a qb that throws one of the best deep balls in the league...a knee injury isnt that scarey to most coaches.

Correction, Murray is a QB who at one time threw one of the best deep balls in the league, but this year was DEAD LAST in DVOA on deep throws.

if anything, they see a young man who is now motivated to improve on the mental side of his game which is what he needed all along anyway.

Who has seen that? Sadly, this is just wishful thinking.

...dave

 

[oaken1]

Correction, Murray is a QB who at one time threw one of the best deep balls in the league, but this year was DEAD LAST in DVOA on deep throws.

Who has seen that? Sadly, this is just wishful thinking.

...dave

dudes have bad years.... I aint in the least concerned about his deep ball.


and the motivation?? yeah sure, wishful thinking... but it makes sense that a guy who has put work in to be an athlete his entire life would want to continue in his profession, and since his mobility may be limited,...work on other areas.... he has been paid, sure... but 5 years from now he can tack on another 300mil ish if he stays a productive starter in the league...at 25 thats gotta count for something.

 

[Stout]

It's fairy land. It just is. If you think we fire Keim and Kliff and in comes Payton and some pocket GM and turns everything around and we win the 2024 superbowl.

Yes, there are loads of reasons to fire Kliff. But this isn't about Kliff.

What use is firing Kliff if it makes us worse and prolongs the pain? Because that's far more likely to happen in the current situation.

Getting someone like Payton was hard enough before, it's nigh on impossible now.

Nobody worth crap is coming here as HC shackled to a possible RG3 earning top 4 league money. That's how everyone will see it. That's why nobody as far as I can see as ever fired their HC with a starting QB out with a major injury. Certainly not in recent times.

What in the heck are you even talking about? Your argument is that firing Kliffy makes no sense and saying otherwise is living in fantasyland. Now you're trying to attribute some weird "We're winning the Super Bowl imminently with Payton" argument to those who don't agree with you. You're around the bend here, man.

Kliffy shouldn't stay. He needs to be fired if for no other reason that he doesn't need to taint the next regime or continue to drive this team into the ground.

 

[DaHilg]

Correction, Murray is a QB who at one time threw one of the best deep balls in the league, but this year was DEAD LAST in DVOA on deep throws.

Who has seen that? Sadly, this is just wishful thinking.

...dave

Correction, Murray is a QB who at one time threw one of the best deep balls in the league, but this year was DEAD LAST in DVOA on deep throws.

Who has seen that? Sadly, this is just wishful thinking.

...dave

Hard to throw any deep ball well consistently while being the most pressured QB in the league… need protection to throw it deep. Sure he’s missed a few that we have all seen, but surely it’s in your head with how terrible the Oline has been. If Colt was our starter all year he would have put pressure on the all-time sacked list.

 

[Stout]

Hard to throw any deep ball well consistently while being the most pressured QB in the league… need protection to throw it deep. Sure he’s missed a few that we have all seen, but surely it’s in your head with how terrible the Oline has been. If Colt was our starter all year he would have put pressure on the all-time sacked list.

No accountability. Not one iota. He's been well protected at times and still hasn't been good on the deep ball. It's actually Jekyll and Hyde, because last year early he was nails with it, and this year pre-knee injury he couldn't seem to hit the broad side of a barn deep. Unless your argument is that he's shell shocked from bad protection that he can't possibly throw well deep when he has good protection?

 

[DaHilg]

No accountability. Not one iota. He's been well protected at times and still hasn't been good on the deep ball. It's actually Jekyll and Hyde, because last year early he was nails with it, and this year pre-knee injury he couldn't seem to hit the broad side of a barn deep. Unless your argument is that he's shell shocked from bad protection that he can't possibly throw well deep when he has good protection?

Absolutely shell shocked and the line has only gotten worse since week 1 of 2021. If you are under extreme duress on 90% (prob an exaggeration)of your plays designed for a deep throw - you 100% going to be in shell shocked and also have even more of a limited amount of opportunities to throw a deep ball.

If you watched Tampa much this year, you can even see it with the GOAT. He’s been more errant than ever on deep throws w their make shift Oline.

 

[Stout]

Absolutely shell shocked and the line has only gotten worse since week 1 of 2021. If you are under extreme duress on 90% (prob an exaggeration)of your plays designed for a deep throw - you 100% going to be in shell shocked and also have even more of a limited amount of opportunities to throw a deep ball.

If you watched Tampa much this year, you can even see it with the GOAT. He’s been more errant than ever on deep throws w their make shift Oline.

So Kyler bears absolutely zero percent of the blame for his utter lack of ability to throw the deep ball this season? Okay. Suuure.

And "extreme duress on 90% of your plays is beyond an exaggeration. And they say I use hyperbole

 

[DaHilg]

So Kyler bears absolutely zero percent of the blame for his utter lack of ability to throw the deep ball this season? Okay. Suuure.

And "extreme duress on 90% of your plays is beyond an exaggeration. And they say I use hyperbole

Don’t be exhausting today Stout. Did I ever say he has zero responsibility? Pls point it out. Here’s your obligatory preface for any post Kyler related - Kyler sucks, he’s awful, an embarrassment.

Now we can move on to discussing the point I made. I don’t believe there is a QB in this league that would have looked good this year consistently with our Oline and Playcalling. Def not one that would have made us any better than MAYBE getting us a season win total of 6-8 wins max. Herbie and Rodgers are struggling to do so with much more competent rosters - albeit injuries on all teams.

We could have the mighty Mahomes on this team and it would be a stretch to say we would make the 7th seed w this Oline and coaches playcalling, clock management and decision making.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

What in the heck are you even talking about? Your argument is that firing Kliffy makes no sense and saying otherwise is living in fantasyland. Now you're trying to attribute some weird "We're winning the Super Bowl imminently with Payton" argument to those who don't agree with you. You're around the bend here, man.

Kliffy shouldn't stay. He needs to be fired if for no other reason that he doesn't need to taint the next regime or continue to drive this team into the ground.

There's no reason to keep Kliff at this juncture.

Keim fired himself essentially so that saves Bidwill the ego bruise of having to fire two guys he just extended. He easily could spin it as "with Keim having to step down, I felt it was time to change the direction of the franchise" and be able to save face.

 

[Stout]

Don’t be exhausting today Stout. Did I ever say he has zero responsibility? Pls point it out. Here’s your obligatory preface for any post Kyler related - Kyler sucks, he’s awful, an embarrassment.

Now we can move on to discussing the point I made. I don’t believe there is a QB in this league that would have looked good this year consistently with our Oline and Playcalling. Def not one that would have made us any better than MAYBE getting us a season win total of 6-8 wins max. Herbie and Rodgers are struggling to do so with much more competent rosters - albeit injuries on all teams.

We could have the mighty Mahomes on this team and it would be a stretch to say we would make the 7th seed w this Oline and coaches playcalling, clock management and decision making.

if you put a top end QB on this team, I believe they had a shot to sneak into the playoffs, absolutely. It would have gotten harder down the stretch, with all the injuries, especially to our OL, but I would feel it was a possibility. With Kyler, I was not feeling the possibility, and drastically less week after week. Considering he's not anywhere near where the top QBs are right now, I think that a Mahomes or Allen would do much better.

Something's wrong beyond him not progressing. If he came out of the gate slinging it but still making the same old mistakes, it would have been easy to leave it at the point that he just didn't do what he needed to do, that the light didn't come on after that playoff debacle. Problem is, he didn't just not progress; he actively regressed. A lot. I'm starting to come to the same conclusions as other posters, that something wasn't right with his arm, maybe, or something we don't know about. I can barely call him a shell of what he was to start last season, regardless of the line play. That is worrisome to me.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

It’s time to clean house. The Patriot game finished me. I felt like there were more Patriot fans at the game than Card fans. They were even all over the club level. It’s pretty clear the coaching staff isn’t capable of getting it done and Keim, Kliff KM getting Extension’s was ridiculous. MB has to be coming unglued with the way this season has went.

Just wait until you see the TB game. It might be 90% opposing team fans, including those wanting to get a last glimpse of Brady on the field.

 

[DaHilg]

if you put a top end QB on this team, I believe they had a shot to sneak into the playoffs, absolutely. It would have gotten harder down the stretch, with all the injuries, especially to our OL, but I would feel it was a possibility. With Kyler, I was not feeling the possibility, and drastically less week after week. Considering he's not anywhere near where the top QBs are right now, I think that a Mahomes or Allen would do much better.

Something's wrong beyond him not progressing. If he came out of the gate slinging it but still making the same old mistakes, it would have been easy to leave it at the point that he just didn't do what he needed to do, that the light didn't come on after that playoff debacle. Problem is, he didn't just not progress; he actively regressed. A lot. I'm starting to come to the same conclusions as other posters, that something wasn't right with his arm, maybe, or something we don't know about. I can barely call him a shell of what he was to start last season, regardless of the line play. That is worrisome to me.

I don’t buy it.. as mentioned Rodgers and Herbie have far more competent rosters and play-callers than this AZ team. They are struggling to achieve 8-9 wins this year. They’d be working with less here.

 

[Stout]

I don’t buy it.. as mentioned Rodgers and Herbie have far more competent rosters and play-callers than this AZ team. They are struggling to achieve 8-9 wins this year. They’d be working with less here.

Rodgers is old and no longer elite, and his roster sucks too. Herbie has a grossly incompetent coach whom I would possibly put below Kliffy, and has dealt with a lot of injury issues, as well as injuries to himself. He hasn't been able to elevate them, and that's why I didn't mention him. Can you say Allen or Mahomes wouldn't have done better this year than KM?