What's wrong with the Mavs/How good are the Spurs?

[Cheesebeef]

So, tonight, without Duncan, the Spurs are taking it to a Mavs team that has just looked downright mediocre so far this year, something I really wasn't expecting. What is going on Lorenzo? I haven't watched you guys much at all, but what is up?

And as far as the Spurs are concerned, man, this team is just beyond tough. They're off to their best start ever and can seemingly even play well against a huge rival without their centerpiece.

 

[Lorenzo]

So, tonight, without Duncan, the Spurs are taking it to a Mavs team that has just looked downright mediocre so far this year, something I really wasn't expecting. What is going on Lorenzo? I haven't watched you guys much at all, but what is up?

And as far as the Spurs are concerned, man, this team is just beyond tough. They're off to their best start ever and can seemingly even play well against a huge rival without their centerpiece.

well as far as this game goes I thought the mavs looked good in the first half. they fell apart in the third qtr as ginobli is just having one of those games. he seems to play better when he's forced to be the #1 option. At the begining of the season the mavs really took it to the spurs....so it's hard to understand why they are having so much trouble at the offensive end tonight. they have been very porous at the offensive end for about 5 games or so now. Hopefully they bounce out of it. they have had major problems on the road.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Manu was a bit slow last year and this year he hasn't just recovered, he is going absolutely insane.

 

[CaptainInsano]

You know what I hope though, with how well the spurs are doing I am feeling it is possible they might actually peak at some point early here.

Not that they won't still go on a 2nd half of the season tear, but it might be one of their weakest with how well they are playing this early.

One can hope I guess.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You know what I hope though, with how well the spurs are doing I am feeling it is possible they might actually peak at some point early here.

Not that they won't still go on a 2nd half of the season tear, but it might be one of their weakest with how well they are playing this early.

One can hope I guess.

here's the problem with that - they're winning right now at a monsterous rate, but they aren't playing SA D yet, so it's not like they're even playing out of their minds. Duncan's averaging career lows in minutes, points and rebounds, which only means he'll be as fresh as he always is and I don't see Manu or Parker slowing down.

 

[hsandhu]

Here's the thing with dallas, either they are completely finished after what happened the last two years or they really aren't worried about the regular season (67 wins and out in 6 games last year) and are more concerned with progressing and playing better as the season goes on.

At the end of the day, here is the secret everybody needs to know (and popovich has known for 8 years). There is nothing more meaningless in major American sports than the nba regular season. This is my biggest issue with stern and the main reason the nba is clearly behind the nfl and mlb.

The regular season is 6 months long with 82 games, but what the hell are you playing for? 16 out of the 30 teams get in the postseason, that's ludicrous. Seeding isn't all that important, especially in the west, where really you only will have at most one easy series.

And homecourt? The mavs spend 6 months working their ass off, win 25 more games than gs, and get 1 extra home game in a seven game series? And they lose thant advantage in game 1 and never get it back.

That's why I'm really enjoying this suns' regular season, because I have very little concern for the outcome of the games. I cared a lot more the first couple years of Nash because they had to show they were an elite team.

This is clearly an elite team and I'm evaluating the regular season (up to say mid march) as an extended training camp. Barring injury, we will be one of the 4/5 teams contending for the title in May. I dont think anybody disputes that.

Now it's just about watching this "training camp" period to see how strong a contender we will be and watching the team progess, I find that very enjoyable.

I'm a huge defensive guy and have been pissed with our style in the past as a result. But this is by far the most offensively potent team of the past 4 years.
We are stacked offensively, and when we come together like tonight, I have confidence we can score any freakin time we want. Even the past 3 years I never had that confidence.

Thus no worries in the regular season, I'm evaluating each game to see how close we can get to offensive perfection and see if we can get there going into the playoffs.

 

[SASpursfan]

You know what I hope though, with how well the spurs are doing I am feeling it is possible they might actually peak at some point early here.

Not that they won't still go on a 2nd half of the season tear, but it might be one of their weakest with how well they are playing this early.

One can hope I guess.

Maybe you havent seen many spurs games this season. Tim doesnt play very minutes. nor does Parker or Manu, yet both are having excellent seasons. Pop has done a great job of limiting there minutes yet they are still winning. It seems that there familiarity with each other allows there team play to get so many easy offensive points. There only real struggle this season was against Dallas earlier this season but several players from them had exceptional games.
I stiill expect them to eventually get Udoka more minutes and trade backup pgs from Vaught to Washington (this guy is tough and plays like a veteran). Thus; it may seem they are peaking early yet its not because of something the team has stressed.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Here's the thing with dallas, either they are completely finished after what happened the last two years or they really aren't worried about the regular season (67 wins and out in 6 games last year) and are more concerned with progressing and playing better as the season goes on.

At the end of the day, here is the secret everybody needs to know (and popovich has known for 8 years). There is nothing more meaningless in major American sports than the nba regular season. This is my biggest issue with stern and the main reason the nba is clearly behind the nfl and mlb.

The regular season is 6 months long with 82 games, but what the hell are you playing for? 16 out of the 30 teams get in the postseason, that's ludicrous. Seeding isn't all that important, especially in the west, where really you only will have at most one easy series.

And homecourt? The mavs spend 6 months working their ass off, win 25 more games than gs, and get 1 extra home game in a seven game series? And they lose thant advantage in game 1 and never get it back.

That's why I'm really enjoying this suns' regular season, because I have very little concern for the outcome of the games. I cared a lot more the first couple years of Nash because they had to show they were an elite team.

This is clearly an elite team and I'm evaluating the regular season (up to say mid march) as an extended training camp. Barring injury, we will be one of the 4/5 teams contending for the title in May. I dont think anybody disputes that.

Now it's just about watching this "training camp" period to see how strong a contender we will be and watching the team progess, I find that very enjoyable.

I'm a huge defensive guy and have been pissed with our style in the past as a result. But this is by far the most offensively potent team of the past 4 years.
We are stacked offensively, and when we come together like tonight, I have confidence we can score any freakin time we want. Even the past 3 years I never had that confidence.

Thus no worries in the regular season, I'm evaluating each game to see how close we can get to offensive perfection and see if we can get there going into the playoffs.

Im sorry, but there is nothing more absolutely meaningless than the eleventy billion regular season baseball games played. Basketball regular season may be useless, but it cant hold a candle to MLB. Not even worth comparing.

 

[hsandhu]

Im sorry, but there is nothing more absolutely meaningless than the eleventy billion regular season baseball games played. Basketball regular season may be useless, but it cant hold a candle to MLB. Not even worth comparing.

One enormous frickin difference, 8 out of 32 teams get in the postseason in mlb. The most exclusive post season in American team sports. Thus every game does mean something, because it is extremely difficult to get in the postseason.

 

[F-Dog]

Something is wrong with Nowitzki--he's lost his aggressiveness. He dominated Bowen two years ago.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Something is wrong with Nowitzki--he's lost his aggressiveness. He dominated Bowen two years ago.

yeah, his numbers are pretty pedestrian across the board.

 

[F-Dog]

I looked up Nowitzki's numbers.

FGA per game:

2005-6: 19.3
2006-7: 17.2
2007-8: 15.4

A strange trend for a player who's supposedly in the prime of his career.

 

[Mainstreet]

Something is wrong with Nowitzki--he's lost his aggressiveness. He dominated Bowen two years ago.

Maybe it's because GS did a number on him in the playoffs last season. I think Dirk will be alright but that series last year really had to impact Dirk and the Mav's confidence. Maybe it's a blessing for them because they will probably peak later.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

One enormous frickin difference, 8 out of 32 teams get in the postseason in mlb. The most exclusive post season in American team sports. Thus every game does mean something, because it is extremely difficult to get in the postseason.

Its difficult to get into the preseason because the MLB regular season is a test of attrition and not a test of talent or teamwork.

Youre actually defending 180 game regular seasons because it only leads to 8 post season teams to watch?

 

[Louis]

I looked up Nowitzki's numbers.

FGA per game:

2005-6: 19.3
2006-7: 17.2
2007-8: 15.4

A strange trend for a player who's supposedly in the prime of his career.

His assists have slowly gone up, his playing is decreasing, and so far wins have increased each season for the Mavs during that period.

This season looks to be different though.

With continued progression of Harris, Josh Howard, and the additions of Eddie Jones and Stack, it's easy to imagine a scenario where is point productions decreases. He's got a better team around him. And they still have Jet.

 

[Bufalay]

The spurs won this game because of the refs. The calls that Manu and Bowen were getting were ridiculous (as usual I guess). Ginobilli made one layup where he jumped, reached the peak, and started going up again (obviously because he stepped on Diop's leg), but nothing was called. The guy was absolutely out of control for the entire second half. It was a really frustrating game to watch.

Bennett Salvatore was the ref.

 

[Covert Rain]

The spurs won this game because of the refs. The calls that Manu and Bowen were getting were ridiculous (as usual I guess). Ginobilli made one layup where he jumped, reached the peak, and started going up again (obviously because he stepped on Diop's leg), but nothing was called. The guy was absolutely out of control for the entire second half. It was a really frustrating game to watch.

Bennett Salvatore was the ref.

The Spurs won that game because they are the best team in the NBA right now. The Refs helped but lets not downplay this team. People might hate em but they are the best team until someone proves otherwise.

 

[Djaughe]

I looked up Nowitzki's numbers.

FGA per game:

2005-6: 19.3
2006-7: 17.2
2007-8: 15.4

A strange trend for a player who's supposedly in the prime of his career.

Maybe he caught Tom Chambers syndrome.

 

[S_Nash]

After watching this game, I was left wondering whether or not the Suns would be able to beat the Spurs even without Duncan.

I don't care what anyone says, Manu Ginobilli is one of the top 25 players in the league. You could even make a case that he's higher. He's one of those guys that you would love to have on your team and absolutely hate if he was on another. He is able to get to the rim at will, plus he goes STRONG! Plus he's not selfish, he knows when to shoot and when to pass.

Tony Parker is in the same mould, but I believe his passing is still not where it needs to be for a PG. He is like lightning on the court and there is not a person alive that can guard him. He seems to have worked on his mid range game in the offseason because he was coming off screens and pulling up without hesitation. When he did get into the paint, if he didn't have a shot he would dribble back out and almost always end up with a mismatch 1-on-1 with a Mavs player.

Bruce Bowen (as much as I hate him) played tough, tenacious defense as always. Poor Devin Harris just couldn't handle him. Bruce would get right up on him and Devin would either pass straight away, lose the ball or lose his footing trying to pass him.

The game reminded me of last years Suns @ Mavs classic. Mavs out to a big early lead, Spurs come back and look like they're going to win by a handsome margin. Mavs knuckle down, get some stops and have a chance to win at the buzzer.

Only difference is Nash made his three, Dirk didn't

One more thing. Brandon Bass will average 15 and 10 against us this year during the regular season

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Dirk bricked a fatty at the buzzer. Talk about the antithesis of clutch. He is always their go to guy when it matters and rarely delivers.

 

[nowagimp]

The Spurs won that game because they are the best team in the NBA right now. The Refs helped but lets not downplay this team. People might hate em but they are the best team until someone proves otherwise.

The spurs without Tim Duncan are definitely not "the best team in the NBA", hogwash. I think Dallas has problems in the team chemistry that are related to their loss to golden state last year. Nowitski's confidence and/or his teammates confidence in him have taken a hit. Nowitski needs to be the 1st scoring option on that team, they have to find a way to get him his shot. When Dirk puts alot of energy in the offense, The Howards, Terrys, etc can play harder on defense(with more impact than Dirk can on D). I think Dallas is a better defensive team when Dirk scores more, and the spacing is better. I dont know whats going on in Dallas(inside the team), but the key to their strong play is getting Dirk going on offense. If Dirk isnt contributing on offense in a major way, there is no sense in him being out there. I am pretty sure he'd be getting 26-28ppg alongside steve Nash right now. Josh Howard is an excellent defender, but he will not be as good a defender if he is being relied on as the primary scoring option. A good point guard could cure alot of these problems, but surely dallas is better than their record indicates, at least in talent. Whatever it is that has changed in their plan this year has not worked very well, not at all.

 

[nowagimp]

After watching this game, I was left wondering whether or not the Suns would be able to beat the Spurs even without Duncan.

I don't care what anyone says, Manu Ginobilli is one of the top 25 players in the league. You could even make a case that he's higher. He's one of those guys that you would love to have on your team and absolutely hate if he was on another. He is able to get to the rim at will, plus he goes STRONG! Plus he's not selfish, he knows when to shoot and when to pass.

Tony Parker is in the same mould, but I believe his passing is still not where it needs to be for a PG. He is like lightning on the court and there is not a person alive that can guard him. He seems to have worked on his mid range game in the offseason because he was coming off screens and pulling up without hesitation. When he did get into the paint, if he didn't have a shot he would dribble back out and almost always end up with a mismatch 1-on-1 with a Mavs player.

Bruce Bowen (as much as I hate him) played tough, tenacious defense as always. Poor Devin Harris just couldn't handle him. Bruce would get right up on him and Devin would either pass straight away, lose the ball or lose his footing trying to pass him.

The game reminded me of last years Suns @ Mavs classic. Mavs out to a big early lead, Spurs come back and look like they're going to win by a handsome margin. Mavs knuckle down, get some stops and have a chance to win at the buzzer.

Only difference is Nash made his three, Dirk didn't

One more thing. Brandon Bass will average 15 and 10 against us this year during the regular season

youre kidding right? Who would play defense in the middle for the spurs, elson? Amare would have his way with that team, it'd be very ugly. Without the need to double the post, the 3's would be heavily defended. SA has a 47% FG against defense this year, pops is pissed off(3-4% up from last year). Dallas lack of a low post option minimizes the absence of Duncan as much as possible. The interior defense of the spurs is way down without TD. Dallas is in a serious funk, they have been so inconsistent they had to rally to beat the bulls for crapsake. They have already lost to the blazers, bucks and wizards(w/o arenas). Thats not the Mavericks team of the last few years.

 

[Louis]

The Spurs don't care what Amare does on offense. They instead allow Nash/Amare to get theirs so to speak and concentrate on limiting the effectiveness of the hired hands.

And apparently that works.

 

[azirish]

I have seen the Mavs much this season, but my reaction is that the Mavs are poorly structured and adding Bass is just a stop gap.

1. No real point guard. Harris is a good player, but he's not a guy to handle the ball with 30 seconds on the clock.

2. Too many one-on-one guys. They rank 18th in assists.

3. No low post threat. Post up Dirk is not much of an answer and their other bigs are not much of a threat unless totally ignored.

4. Too many specialists. The Mavs have too many guys who can only do one or two things well and are average or below at other stuff.

I'd guess the Mavs will turn things around and win upwards of 60 games again, but I expect they will be making a trade or two before the deadline.

 

[jandaman]

After watching this game, I was left wondering whether or not the Suns would be able to beat the Spurs even without Duncan.

I don't care what anyone says, Manu Ginobilli is one of the top 25 players in the league. You could even make a case that he's higher. He's one of those guys that you would love to have on your team and absolutely hate if he was on another. He is able to get to the rim at will, plus he goes STRONG! Plus he's not selfish, he knows when to shoot and when to pass.

Tony Parker is in the same mould, but I believe his passing is still not where it needs to be for a PG. He is like lightning on the court and there is not a person alive that can guard him. He seems to have worked on his mid range game in the offseason because he was coming off screens and pulling up without hesitation. When he did get into the paint, if he didn't have a shot he would dribble back out and almost always end up with a mismatch 1-on-1 with a Mavs player.

Bruce Bowen (as much as I hate him) played tough, tenacious defense as always. Poor Devin Harris just couldn't handle him. Bruce would get right up on him and Devin would either pass straight away, lose the ball or lose his footing trying to pass him.

The game reminded me of last years Suns @ Mavs classic. Mavs out to a big early lead, Spurs come back and look like they're going to win by a handsome margin. Mavs knuckle down, get some stops and have a chance to win at the buzzer.

Only difference is Nash made his three, Dirk didn't

One more thing. Brandon Bass will average 15 and 10 against us this year during the regular season

Its Popovic... and the management.

Spurs are simply full of SMART players, notice that they have as much basketball players around the world... and the veterans they have are smart players rather than flashy.

Each one knows how to play within a system, rather than take over.

Ginobili, Parker etc all benefited from Popovic coaching.. and thats why they are 4 time champs.