When can we call Dansby Swanson a bust?

[Dback Jon]

Dansby Swanson 49 175 20 33 6 0 4 18 51 22 50 1 .189 .276 .291 .568


Hitting .189, OBP of .276 Only 4 HR.

Has 10 Errors already -.4 WAR


Dbacks Shortstops

Chris Owings 51 186 21 58 11 1 6 28 89 12 42 9 .312 .352 .478 .830

Nick Ahmed 39 111 16 29 6 0 4 14 47 6 26 3 .261 .299 .423 .723

Owings WAR +1.3
Ahmed WAR +.6

 

[Ronin]

.189 batting average.

 

[devilalum]

Still doesn't change the fact that the Dbacks traded the #1 overall pick + for Shelby Miller but Swanson going bust would help ease the pain.

 

[Bodha]

Never because hes not our player.


This is some petty petty petty pettyness. Trying to make the Shelby Miller trade not look like the atrocity that it was and forever will be.

 

[Shaggy]

Never because hes not our player.


This is some petty petty petty pettyness. Trying to make the Shelby Miller trade not look like the atrocity that it was and forever will be.

What doesn't it matter if he is on the Dbacks or not. He would still be out there batting, up against the same pitchers. What does it matter what team he is on? You think he would be doing better here? His batting average stinks, doesn't matter what team he is on. Is he bust, I don't think so as of now, but he isn't batting well at all.

 

[Bodha]

What doesn't it matter if he is on the Dbacks or not. He would still be out there batting, up against the same pitchers. What does it matter what team he is on? You think he would be doing better here? His batting average stinks, doesn't matter what team he is on. Is he bust, I don't think so as of now, but he isn't batting well at all.

How come there arent any "Hows Didi Gregorious doing" threads?

Because the soul and intent of this thread is an attempt to dampen then Miller trade. Its petty.

It doesnt matter how he's doing. Bust or no bust, that was the worst trade in Dbacks history.

 

[GatorAZ]

It's May Jesus.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

It's May Jesus.

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[Dback Jon]

Funny. Everyone judged the Upton trade by May

 

[Shaggy]

How come there arent any "Hows Didi Gregorious doing" threads?

Because the soul and intent of this thread is an attempt to dampen then Miller trade. Its petty.

It doesnt matter how he's doing. Bust or no bust, that was the worst trade in Dbacks history.

I know why he did it. Yes, its grabbing straws and trying to find ways to make us feel better about the trade but whats wrong with that? Its not petty, just pointing out that it is still a bad trade, but not as bad.

 

[Bodha]

I know why he did it. Yes, its grabbing straws and trying to find ways to make us feel better about the trade but whats wrong with that? Its not petty, just pointing out that it is still a bad trade, but not as bad.

Because the atrocity of that trade shouldnt be alleviated. If you soften failures, then how are you suppose to learn? That was our worst all time trade, and should be kept as such as a dark reminder for all future trades, so as not to do it again.

The consequence should be reflective of the act, not the outcome. For example:

(To use an extreme example), it would be like if somebody shot a gun into a crowd of people, miraculously didnt hit anybody, and argued it wasnt so bad because nobody got killed.

 

[Shaggy]

Because the atrocity of that trade shouldnt be alleviated. If you soften failures, then how are you suppose to learn? That was our worst all time trade, and should be kept as such as a dark reminder for all future trades, so as not to do it again.

The consequence should be reflective of the act, not the outcome. For example:

(To use an extreme example), it would be like if somebody shot a gun into a crowd of people, miraculously didnt hit anybody, and argued it wasnt so bad because nobody got killed.

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[TJ]

Funny. Everyone judged the Upton trade by May

It's perceived value. Upton was far more valuable than Prado et al at the time.

One of the most lopsided trades in sports history in terms of value was the Pau Gasol trade from Memphis to LA Lakers for Kwame Brown. The throw-in player in that deal was the rights to Marc Gasol, who took about 4 +/- years to become an all-star player.

Knowing what we know now, that trade isn't so lopsided, but at the time, it was seen as being highway robbery in favor of the Lakers.

 

[Dback Jon]

It's perceived value. Upton was far more valuable than Prado et al at the time.

One of the most lopsided trades in sports history in terms of value was the Pau Gasol trade from Memphis to LA Lakers for Kwame Brown. The throw-in player in that deal was the rights to Marc Gasol, who took about 4 +/- years to become an all-star player.

Knowing what we know now, that trade isn't so lopsided, but at the time, it was seen as being highway robbery in favor of the Lakers.

Which is why it is hard to judge trades right away.

Looking back at the Upton trade, the Dbacks still have three players from the trade (Ahmed, Drury and Delgado), Braves have zero. Dbacks couldn't have afford a new contract for Upton. Braves didn't feel he was worth it.

To date, I would say the Dbacks at least broke even, or even won the trade.

 

[Jason1970]

Sad fact is Swanson should be in Reno, Inciarte should be in the OF and could have signed Leake for 5/50M

 

[Dback Jon]

Sad fact is Swanson should be in Reno, Inciarte should be in the OF and could have signed Leake for 5/50M

Inciarte is the player I regret not having. Although our OF is doing reasonably well.

Swanson would be in Reno, yes.

Leake was below average last year, but pitching well so far this year. That is assuming we could have signed him.

 

[AZ Native]

Still doesn't change the fact that the Dbacks traded the #1 overall pick + for Shelby Miller but Swanson going bust would help ease the pain.

Yeah, it does.

 

[overseascardfan]

The outcome of the trade on our end was bad in that Miller has been a major disappointment and other options were available (Gio Gonzalez for a lot less than we have up for Miller reportedly).

It's waaaay to early to call Swanson a bust when he's only a quarter of the way into his rookie year.

 

[Matt L]

Which is why it is hard to judge trades right away.

Looking back at the Upton trade, the Dbacks still have three players from the trade (Ahmed, Drury and Delgado), Braves have zero. Dbacks couldn't have afford a new contract for Upton. Braves didn't feel he was worth it.

To date, I would say the Dbacks at least broke even, or even won the trade.

Honestly, you would find a way to say the Dbacks broke even or won every trade.

 

[Dback Jon]

Honestly, you would find a way to say the Dbacks broke even or won every trade.

Not every trade. But I do try to provide a little counterweight to those that believe the Dbacks lose every trade.



do you really think that the Dbacks lost the Upton trade?

 

[Bert]

Not every trade. But I do try to provide a little counterweight to those that believe the Dbacks lose every trade.



do you really think that the Dbacks lost the Upton trade?

I know you didn't ask me, but they were talking about this on the radio the other day and just on stats alone you can make a strong argument that we won that trade...

But when you take into account Uptons production and the fact that we would have had to pay him over 100mil for it, there's simply no question that we were the winners in that trade.

They made the argument better than I just did, but that was the jist of it. And I'm no hater, I still have an Upton jersey, but he simply never hit the superstar level everyone was so certain he was going to hit and what he was being paid.

 

[Matt L]

I know you didn't ask me, but they were talking about this on the radio the other day and just on stats alone you can make a strong argument that we won that trade...

Which stats would you use in this argument? batting average?

But when you take into account Uptons production and the fact that we would have had to pay him over 100mil for it, there's simply no question that we were the winners in that trade.

They made the argument better than I just did, but that was the jist of it. And I'm no hater, I still have an Upton jersey, but he simply never hit the superstar level everyone was so certain he was going to hit and what he was being paid.

Upton has not lived up to his potential. He still was a pretty good player when he was part of the DBacks organization and has been above average since leaving the organization. I think his WAR since leaving is about 12 wins above replacement level. Prado, Ahmed and Drury have been about 5 WAR all together.

Not every trade. But I do try to provide a little counterweight to those that believe the Dbacks lose every trade.



do you really think that the Dbacks lost the Upton trade?

I don't think the Dbacks "lose" every trade. I think they lose the trades they force themselves into making. Upton was signed to a reasonable contact through 2015 and the front office decided they had to move him before the season began in 2013. Up to that point he had been a pretty productive player and had 2 seasons really good seasons and 2 average seasons. Do you really think they maximized their return on Upton when they traded him for Prado, Drury, Ahmed, Delgado and Spruill?

Prado was traded for a sub replacement level OF/1B who's probably a AAAA player. I really enjoy watching Ahmed play, I like his defense and I prefer to have a defense first shortstop on the field. That said, I think his peak as a player is an average shortstop. Delgado is a below average starting pitcher and a sligthly above average reliever. I don't know much about Spruill. Drury seems to be the piece who is moving the needle for you to call this a win for the Dbacks. I hope he keeps hitting the way he has in the first third of the season and continues to improve. That said, for the last four years, Upton has averaged 25 home runs, about 85 Runs and somewhere around .330 OBP. Those are pretty good numbers, I don't know if Drury is going to reach those.

 

[Dback Jon]

Even if we had kept Upton, he wouldn't be a Dback as we couldn't afford his contract. So the Dbacks would have had two more years of Upton, but no Ahmed, Delgado, Drury. The Prado piece was a bust.

The main criticism that I think is valid is that the Dbacks could have gotten MORE for Upton at the time.

 

[Bert]

Which stats would you use in this argument? batting average?



Upton has not lived up to his potential. He still was a pretty good player when he was part of the DBacks organization and has been above average since leaving the organization. I think his WAR since leaving is about 12 wins above replacement level. Prado, Ahmed and Drury have been about 5 WAR all together.



I don't think the Dbacks "lose" every trade. I think they lose the trades they force themselves into making. Upton was signed to a reasonable contact through 2015 and the front office decided they had to move him before the season began in 2013. Up to that point he had been a pretty productive player and had 2 seasons really good seasons and 2 average seasons. Do you really think they maximized their return on Upton when they traded him for Prado, Drury, Ahmed, Delgado and Spruill?

Prado was traded for a sub replacement level OF/1B who's probably a AAAA player. I really enjoy watching Ahmed play, I like his defense and I prefer to have a defense first shortstop on the field. That said, I think his peak as a player is an average shortstop. Delgado is a below average starting pitcher and a sligthly above average reliever. I don't know much about Spruill. Drury seems to be the piece who is moving the needle for you to call this a win for the Dbacks. I hope he keeps hitting the way he has in the first third of the season and continues to improve. That said, for the last four years, Upton has averaged 25 home runs, about 85 Runs and somewhere around .330 OBP. Those are pretty good numbers, I don't know if Drury is going to reach those.

Yes, but we're not paying Drury or Ahmed $132,750,000 which was my point. Didn't say Upton wasn't good but he's NOWHERE near worth the money he's being paid. That's why I say we won. We got less production but at 1/10th the cost which enabled us to make some of the other moves we have made.

 

[Matt L]

Even if we had kept Upton, he wouldn't be a Dback as we couldn't afford his contract. So the Dbacks would have had two more years of Upton, but no Ahmed, Delgado, Drury. The Prado piece was a bust.

The main criticism that I think is valid is that the Dbacks could have gotten MORE for Upton at the time.

I agree that we would not have signed him to the contract Detroit did. I do think we should have waited for the trade deadline to get more value for him.