When we lost our emotional edge on defense

[Jetstream Green]

Yes, there are a ton of problems on defense with Bettcher being the main one but as far as our emotion, I think this defense lost a lot when Golden went down. Seems to me he was our enforcer type. When we had him and Swearinger we had an edge to our attitude. Sure Bethea and Rucker can get steamed but grandpa coming after you does not carry the same exuberance and fire of a young guy. On offense we have Peterson and Gresham but Peterson has not been with the team long enough and Gresham goes full moron when he should not

 

[Finito]

No we lost our TALENT on defense.

 

[Jetstream Green]

No we lost our TALENT on defense.

We have enough talent where we should be able to stop at least some third down conversions, especially since we get the teams into third down situations which are usually not favorable but still they convert. There is a serious flaw which goes by the name of Bettcher. He is smart enough to know how to stop the run which does not require much with the actual talent we have but he is totally toast on passing situations in my opinion

 

[Finito]

We have enough talent where we should be able to stop at least some third down conversions, especially since we get the teams into third down situations which are usually not favorable but still they convert. There is a serious flaw which goes by the name of Bettcher. He is smart enough to know how to stop the run which does not require much even with the talent we have but he is totally toast on passing situations in my opinion

We can't get pressure with our D-Line just missing a guy like CC is huge. Getting pressure up front is huge it allows you to do so much on defense and we can't.

 

[Jetstream Green]

We can't get pressure with our D-Line just missing a guy like CC is huge. Getting pressure up front is huge it allows you to do so much on defense and we can't.

I hear you but it seems this defense plays two separate schemes. The guys up front who have a completely vanilla scheme when they should have a more complex one to generate pressure given their talent limitations and then the back end in the secondary which is too complex when they have the talent to play a more basic one (hence, more man to man without all this variable situational zone coverage change off) which has no need for blown assignments because Bettcher gets too cute with their talent

 

[Finito]

I hear you but it seems this defense play two separate schemes. The guys up front who have a completely vanilla scheme when they should have a more complex one to generate pressure given their talent limitations and then the back end in the secondary which is too complex when they have the talent to play a more basic one (hence, more man to man without all this variable situational zone coverage change off) which has no need for blown assignments because Bettcher gets too cute with their talent

Betcher has been here what 3 years? Each year we continue to lose talent not add talent. This defense was very good last year he didn't all of a sudden forget how to coach.

You can only do so much with what you got

 

[Jetstream Green]

Betcher has been here what 3 years? Each year we continue to lose talent not add talent. This defense was very good last year he didn't all of a sudden forget how to coach.

You can only do so much with what you got

To an extent but Bettcher reveals something to me and that was we had extremely good talent which bailed him out. When you are lacking talent, then it becomes more of a chess match and we see the guy can only play checkers. I say compared to other teams, we still have acceptable talent as a whole with two aces in Jones and Peterson but Bettcher is unable to coach a solid game plan and sure cannot adjust... in other words, a competent NFL DC would be doing better right now in my opinion

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Betcher has been here what 3 years? Each year we continue to lose talent not add talent. This defense was very good last year he didn't all of a sudden forget how to coach.

You can only do so much with what you got

Our numbers were good, but we weren’t finishing games on defense and didn’t play to the talent level we had. That was last year, this year we are worse at all the things we were bad at last year.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I do want to say one last thing which I believe has never been brought up on this forum, and that is who does Bettcher consider his mentor. Does he have some guy qualified with enough experience he can turn to. I have been totally upset with him but I will still acknowledge he is young which is part of his problem and lacks experience but someone to turn to can help him grow at his profession. Who does the guy turn to, is there anyone not on the staff Bettcher can talk to or does he have one which realistically is qualified. I was looking at the staff and some of these hires seem ludicrous based on their resume alone, here is an example

Mike Chiurco begins his fifth season with the Cardinals and third as defensive assistant/assistant defensive backs after he was promoted on 2/4/15. Chiurco originally joined the Cardinals staff in February of 2013 as the assistant to the head coach.

Prior to coming to Arizona, Chiurco coached at the high school level as the pass game coordinator at Fairfield (Cincinnati, OH) High School in 2012 and for nine seasons at Cuyahoga Falls (OH) High School (2003-11), including the last three years as defensive coordinator. He also previously worked as a college scout for the Indianapolis Colts for four years (1999-2003).

What is Mike Chiurco qualified to do... get coffee

 

[oaken1]

I do want to say one last thing which I believe has never been brought up on this forum, and that is who does Bettcher consider his mentor. Does he have some guy qualified with enough experience he can turn to. I have been totally upset with him but I will still acknowledge he is young which is part of his problem and lacks experience but someone to turn to can help him grow at his profession. Who does the guy turn to, is there anyone not on the staff Bettcher can talk to or does he have one which realistically is qualified. I was looking at the staff and some of these hires seem ludicrous based on their resume alone, here is an example

Mike Chiurco begins his fifth season with the Cardinals and third as defensive assistant/assistant defensive backs after he was promoted on 2/4/15. Chiurco originally joined the Cardinals staff in February of 2013 as the assistant to the head coach.

Prior to coming to Arizona, Chiurco coached at the high school level as the pass game coordinator at Fairfield (Cincinnati, OH) High School in 2012 and for nine seasons at Cuyahoga Falls (OH) High School (2003-11), including the last three years as defensive coordinator. He also previously worked as a college scout for the Indianapolis Colts for four years (1999-2003).

What is Mike Chiurco qualified to do... get coffee

dude is betcher 2.0..... since betch was paganos personal assistant.... seems like a coach likes a guy and decides to set him up for life by getting him a high paying career in pro football coaching....I guess it pays to have friends

 

[Jetstream Green]

dude is betcher 2.0..... since betch was paganos personal assistant.... seems like a coach likes a guy and decides to set him up for life by getting him a high paying career in pro football coaching....I guess it pays to have friends

I guess your're right, the guy was coaching high school and now finds himself in the NFL without ever having any experience in college coaching

 

[Mitch]

The Cardinals started to lose their edge on defense first when HB went down for the second time in 2015 and then in the NFC Championship game when Bettcher put in a game plan versus the Panthers that the Cardinals had not run all year. The meltdown on the field and on the sideline was a sign of things to come and it created a rift between the coaches and the players that has not been rectified since.

 

[Mitch]

No we lost our TALENT on defense.

Why then do all of the following players on defense this year have above average ratings on PFF?

DT Peters
DT X. Williams
DT Pierre
DE Jones
CB Peterson
CB T. Williams
S Bethea
S Branch
S Baker

If the talent was lacking, you wouldn't see these above average ratings.

The problem is as JG stated, losing the junkyard dog (M. Golden) at LOLB/DE...which has affected and slowed down the pass rush...the play of the inside linebackers has been subpar...and the defense lacks a true centerfielder. The best defenses are much stronger up the middle. If the middle falters, the whole thing can cave in.

 

[Sunburst]

Emotion left with Calais Campbell

 

[GuernseyCard]

Emotion left with Calais Campbell

Funny...

I remember reading how some saw him as a gentle giant; no fire and overrated.

We had both good and so , so - defensive play with him here.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Funny...

I remember reading how some saw him as a gentle giant; no fire and overrated.

We had both good and so , so - defensive play with him here.

Emotion did not leave with CC, talent did lol

 

[cardncubfan]

Why then do all of the following players on defense this year have above average ratings on PFF?

DT Peters
DT X. Williams
DT Pierre
DE Jones
CB Peterson
CB T. Williams
S Bethea
S Branch
S Baker

If the talent was lacking, you wouldn't see these above average ratings.

The problem is as JG stated, losing the junkyard dog (M. Golden) at LOLB/DE...which has affected and slowed down the pass rush...the play of the inside linebackers has been subpar...and the defense lacks a true centerfielder. The best defenses are much stronger up the middle. If the middle falters, the whole thing can cave in.

One reason is because PFF is crap. I don't buy their rankings at all. They have no idea what play is called, assignments, scheme, etc. They use metrics with a lot of unknowns so they aren't very accurate.

 

[Sunburst]

Emotion did not leave with CC, talent did lol

Calais had great leadership qualities. One does not need to be outspoken all the time to be an effective leader. Talent is undisputed.

http://www.espn.com/blog/afcsouth/p...ving-huge-impact-on-field-and-off-for-jaguars

 

[Jetstream Green]

Calais had great leadership qualities. One does not need to be outspoken all the time to be an effective leader. Talent is undisputed.

http://www.espn.com/blog/afcsouth/p...ving-huge-impact-on-field-and-off-for-jaguars

No, he would speak often but the only problem was nobody knew what he was saying as cited by Peterson and other players haha. You bet CC cared, you bet he made an effort but I heard him before miked talking to the other guys and it was sort of a generic rah rah spurt which did not exactly show any effect on the players other than leading by example. I am talking about emotion, I am talking about Lawrence Taylor "let's go after them like a pack of crazed dogs" and the guys around him instantly going into a frenzy. Darnell Dockett was a strange cat but he was that sort of emotional leader and you could see the players around him feed off that energy. CC was and is a great player but not a leadership type with emotional energy to spare, which is what this post is about.... what in my opinion Golden has

 

[ARZCardinals]

From what I've seen every game is a lack of heart

There are no hard hits

There's no wreckless abandon

They play for next week and save themselves...minus Chandler Jones up front.

Why do you think they have 1 fumble all season?

It's pathetic to watch

 

[Cheesebeef]

Our numbers were good, but we weren’t finishing games on defense and didn’t play to the talent level we had. That was last year, this year we are worse at all the things we were bad at last year.

In the three years we’ve had Bettcher our PPG given up has continually gone UP. Went from 18 to 21 post Bowles in year 1, to 23 in year 2, to 26 in year three. It’s a clear downward trend and while we’ve lost some guys, we’ve also added a legit pass rusher at the same time.

It’s time to turn the page.

 

[football karma]

In the three years we’ve had Bettcher our PPG given up has continually gone UP. Went from 18 to 21 post Bowles in year 1, to 23 in year 2, to 26 in year three. It’s a clear downward trend and while we’ve lost some guys, we’ve also added a legit pass rusher at the same time.

It’s time to turn the page.

The numbers are hard to argue with

 

[Cheesebeef]

The numbers are hard to argue with

So many people point to whatever defensive rankings they want, but a truly great or even good D keeps teams out of the end zone, makes stops after turnovers.. this D did that in 2013 and especially in 2014 with that mash unit. But starting in 2015, that D seemed to repeatedly let up points at the end of games, unable to close out leading to a last minute drive for the offense.

Only HUGE stop I remember this D making under Bettcher was against Minnesota on that Thursday night. But even then, it seemed idiotic for the Vikings to run another play before kicking what would have been the game tying FG.

 

[PACardsFan]

It seems to me that under Bowles, we were very good at getting off the field on 3rd down. Exactly the opposite with Bettcher. Even the year we went to the NFC Championship game, we would constantly give up 3rd & longs.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It seems to me that under Bowles, we were very good at getting off the field on 3rd down. Exactly the opposite with Bettcher. Even the year we went to the NFC Championship game, we would constantly give up 3rd & longs.

yup... and for all the talk of Bettcher being responsible for Bowles halftime adjustments, I find it kinda hard to believe when it was SO OBVIOUS the changes the D made under Bowles after halftime, whereas it seems like our D under bettcher just gets worse as the game goes on. If true, it still says Bowles knew how to call a defensive game much better than Bettcher.