Where is This Team Really Headed?

[SECTION 11]

Personally I'm glad we didn't waste a boat load of cash on Colvin.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Personally I'm glad we didn't waste a boat load of cash on Colvin.

Are you kidding? That guys is a monster. And our boat is still full of cash.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Rivercard
Are you kidding? That guys is a monster. And our boat is still full of cash.

I'm perfectly happy with our OLB's.
Now if we can get Arrington at MLB in free agency next year, or draft Lance Mitchell, then we'll be stylin' at linebacker.

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by kerouac9
... if you remember what Graves was saying about Kordell's workout in the press when he was here, it was pretty obvious that this was his guy. When it became clear that he wasn't going to take our offer, Graves signed Blake...

K9:

There was a point, during talks with Dexter Jackson, that it appeared that he "wasn't going to take our offer," too. Graves raised the ante and got him away from Pittsburgh (to the surprise of many around the league, who assumed Jackson was going with the Steelers).

Kept pursuing one guy. Passed on another. That implies different degrees of interest and player ratings, IMO.

It looked to me like the Cardinals went after four FAs, this offseason, who could legitimately be called the best available at their position: Hodgins-FB, Jackson-FS, Colvin-LB, and Holliday-DE. They got two out of four. Hardly a "debacle."

WC

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Wild Card
K9:

There was a point, during talks with Dexter Jackson, that it appeared that he "wasn't going to take our offer," too. Graves raised the ante and got him away from Pittsburgh (to the surprise of many around the league, who assumed Jackson was going with the Steelers).

Kept pursuing one guy. Passed on another. That implies different degrees of interest and player ratings, IMO.

It looked to me like the Cardinals went after four FAs, this offseason, who could legitimately be called the best available at their position: Hodgins-FB, Jackson-FS, Colvin-LB, and Holliday-DE. They got two out of four. Hardly a "debacle."

WC

Maybe, but the fact remains that fullbacks are on the field for maybe 35% of offensive snaps and Free Safeties are rarely impact players on their own, but DEs and LBs are in on every defensive down, and can make plays every time the ball is snapped. In terms of impact, we lost, big time. Also, we didn't get the quarterback that the fron office wanted. 2-5 is not a good record. Ask Vince Tobin.

 

[seesred]

it appears that most of the disagreement is about Holiday and Colvin. The fact is that they didn't sign for whatever reason. We are not going to the super bowl and the signing of only one thats all we would have signed was not the difference maker.

Graves signed..A solid saftey, and great FB, a solid middle linebacker, a Great RB and a very cappable QB. He then went on and traded 1 for 2 and we ended up with two very good players and maybe more with King, Gilbert and others looking like this is a solid draft. THen he goes on to trade a low pick for what looks to be a number 1 or 2 WR in Foster. THis is his first year. GIVE the guy a BREAK! He is far from finished and will no doubt make somemistakes but will do better than me or anyone else on this board.

Unless you have been in the meetings listening in you don't know what kind of conversations went on with any of them. And you don't know what he is doing about other players that we want to sign. Untill otherwise noted we should support this guy RG all the way, so far he has deserved it.

GBR

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by seesred
it appears that most of the disagreement is about Holiday and Colvin. The fact is that they didn't sign for whatever reason. We are not going to the super bowl and the signing of only one thats all we would have signed was not the difference maker.

Graves signed..A solid saftey, and great FB, a solid middle linebacker, a Great RB and a very cappable QB. He then went on and traded 1 for 2 and we ended up with two very good players and maybe more with King, Gilbert and others looking like this is a solid draft. THen he goes on to trade a low pick for what looks to be a number 1 or 2 WR in Foster. THis is his first year. GIVE the guy a BREAK! He is far from finished and will no doubt make somemistakes but will do better than me or anyone else on this board.

Unless you have been in the meetings listening in you don't know what kind of conversations went on with any of them. And you don't know what he is doing about other players that we want to sign. Untill otherwise noted we should support this guy RG all the way, so far he has deserved it.

GBR

Man, these are the least productive kind of quotes. "Hey, I think that he did a great job, so why don't you shut up!" Why don't you support the guy, and I'll have my opinions, and we can discuss those.

A seemingly solid draft and a couple of free agent signings doesn't change the fact that he failed on his two stated targets: Holliday and Colvin. It also doesn't mitigate the fact that he tracially erred in one of his primary offseason strategies: June 1st cuts, or lack thereof.

Did he get nice players in free agency? Yes. A "great" fullback is still a fullback, and I don't really consider Emmitt to be a "great" running back anymore. Did he do what he stated he wanted to do in free agency and the offseason? No. Did his moves serve to raise the profile of the franchise to hopefully improve on this offseason's free agent recruitment? From the looks of the national media, not really.

Graves has done a "C" job this offseason. No one really vaulted over the Cards in terms of improvement, but they have a long way to go toward moving toward respectability in the league. To my eyes, every team in the league for the most part got better. I'm just not sure that the Cardinals got "more better" than anyone else. That's the cause for my skepticism, and I'll continue to be skeptical, and voice that skepticism, until I see otherwise, and I'd be happy to see as much.

 

[seesred]

I think I'll drink from your half empty glass.

GBR

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I don't know. Having your three most-coveted free agents (R. Colvin, V. Holliday, and [like it or not] K. Stewart) tell you no and go somewhere else for less money and having to settle for a fullback, a free safety, and a bunch of backup offenseive linemen that nobody's ever heard of sounds like a debacle to me, especially considering that the media widely reported the fact that those free agents declined for less money.

I'm saying that effort doesn't mean anything in this league, at least to me; I measure success in terms of production. I don't excuse KVB's dismal performance because of great effort, nor Wakefield's, nor Mac's, nor Plummer's. If Graves tries hard and fails, he still fails. The difference between good and bad GMs in this league is that good GMs get the players they go after. Every GM tries hard.

I disagree on K. Stewart. He was offered a contract and said it wasn't good enough. The Cards were tired of playing games with him and Signed Blake shortly after he came in for a visit.

I just don't see anything else that Grave could have done to get Colvin to sign here. Maybe you could enlighten me on that.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

One of the things that amazes me (well maybe it really doesn't) is seeing some posters going from "Everything about the Cards sucks", to "Now here's what Graves has to do NOW if the Cards are going to be any good".

Good post, but:

A- If the Cardinals do have a good year, plenty of people will suddenly be Cardinal fans (just like in 1998 ) and that's their right. I doubt all of us on this board were "born" Cardinal fans. Hopefully once they jump on the bandwagon they'll find a reason to stay on it.

B- I think everyone wants some action in the DB NOW because we know that we have a shot at being a contender. In the past we've had many holes on the team, 8-8 would seem like a dream. Now we really only have one hole, and if that gets addressed then the sky's the limit.

 

[BACH]

Originally posted by AZCB34
WR is a position which will need watching. Development is key. Early returns are Boldin is the real deal and Graves did well, Johnson has been a whif thusfar but nowhere close to being labeled bust (I find it a bit unnerving many counted on him to return punts and he isn;t even going to be doing that).

A Bust??? Receivers usually don't play at their expected level until the 3rd year. Come on... Just because Boldin looks much better than expected doesn't mean that Johnson is behind schedule. If Graves and Mac thought Johnson was ready to make a contribution for day one, why did they trade for Foster?

Originally posted by kerouac9
We already overpaid for an overrated corner in Duane Starks, who was an above-average #2 corner, but not good enough to "shut down one side of the field," which is what we wanted him to do. He'd be an excellent #1 corner in a Cover 2 scheme, but he's not an elite cover corner. You get those in the draft.

You're contradicting yourself, kerouac. Yes, you get those in the draft, which is why FA corners in general are overpaid. Starks turned out to be overpaid, because he's not on the field. His contract was the going rate for better than avarage CBs. Detroit gave Dre Bly for money than Starks got and Cincy gave $3.7M a year for a Raiders' nickel back (Tory James)

Originally posted by kerouac9
The fact of the matter is that teams are better at managing their salary cap now then they've ever been, and rarely, if ever, have to release top talent for salary-cap purposes. Look at how many "top-quality free agents" were on the open market this last offseason.

About 25 teams barely managed to get under the cap this year and are pushing the problem further down the road. There'll be a lot of free agents next year. Still... Hugh Douglas, Takeo, Brooking, Anthony Simmons, Mike Peterson, Colvin, Sammy Knight, Flozell Adams, Chris Claiborne, Stephen Davis & Wayne Gandy were all UFAs. Not that bad for a bad group.

Originally posted by Rivercard
Everybody on this board thinks they know it all.including you. His post made sense to me.

We exchange personal ideas and opinions on this board. That's the whole idea, isn't it.

 

[Rivercard]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by AZCB34
Johnson has been a whif thusfar but nowhere close to being labeled bust (I find it a bit unnerving many counted on him to return punts and he isn;t even going to be doing that).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by BACH
A Bust??? Receivers usually don't play at their expected level until the 3rd year. Come on... Just because Boldin looks much better than expected doesn't mean that Johnson is behind schedule. If Graves and Mac thought Johnson was ready to make a contribution for day one, why did they trade for Foster?
[/B]

PLease re-read. I don't think AZCB was saying Johnson is a bust. For some reason 2 posters have thought he said that.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Hmm...

I think I will stick to the question at hand.

Where are we headed??

Well before Starks went down I thought that you could bank us for at least 6 wins, preferrably 8 or 9. I thought we had an outside chance at the playoffs.

Unfortunately I really believe that Duane Starks was going to be key to our success. While he is very unpopular on this board, he is potentially an impact player at cornerback. All he needs is a pass rush.

I think we will have a pass rush this year and that can cover our mediocrity at corner. I think this team will be fun at times and frustrating at others. Even without Starks, this team will win some games it shouldn't on "paper"

So I am going to say the loss of Starks means my guess is 6 or 7 wins. Hopefully Mac gets resigned, it isn't his fault that he keeps playing 5 card draw with only 4 cards (injuries) each year.

Now I stress that this is a guess. This team could really suprise me on either way. I could be underestimating or overestimating our talent level. I won't be someone saying I told you so, because the beauty of the NFL is YOU NEVER KNOW.

As to next season, I really hope we spend some of our FAT CAP on resigning LJ Shelton and Raynoch Thompson. Both of these guys have become rock solid Cardinals and I want to see them continue to improve. I want us to build a foundation of players. I want to identify with my Cardinals.


Now if we lose 13 games, don't resign any of our guys, and our draft picks look like sh!te all year long, then maybe I will be more mad at Rod Graves. For right now, I am still in the wait and see mode. I have to believe that amidst the clouds, there aren't some rays of sunshine.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by kerouac9
(if Bailey, Woodson, or Springs reach Free Agency this year, stay away from them),

Sorry but that philosophy just plain sucks. I agree that we could stay away from Woodson and Springs to many injury problems and seem to be declining. But Bailey is a pure stud who is still young. It would be idiotic to not make a push for this guy if he is allowed to become available in FA.

Just because he may be let go doesnt mean hes no good anymore especially in his case!!

 

[HookemCardsOld]

Originally posted by kerouac9
To my eyes, every team in the league for the most part got better. I'm just not sure that the Cardinals got "more better" than anyone else.

Not to nitpick, but is it even possible for every team in the league to get better. I mean, if one team got better, usually it means that they signed a good player from another team, making that team worse. I think the Cards have improved significantly from last year. That doesn't mean I'm not a bit concerned that injuries to WR, DE, or CB can't derail us, but I certainly think we have improved more than most teams.

I also think in this offense Hodgins will play more than 35 percent of the snaps. Did we fail on a few free agents sure, but the only one we didn't get that would have been a huge upgrade was Colvin, and only if he would have played DE for us. I'm very happy with what I have seen/heard about Fisher and Thompson, and I'm willing to bet that Thompson, barring injury, will come close to Colvin in sacks.

I do feel like we should go hard after McDaniel and/or Molden if for no other reason experienced depth in case Hill or Barrett get hurt.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Goodness!

You guys on this thread all need to go to a rugby practice! All of you to the same one. And pound on each other.

Tango wrote up a good thread. Lot of stuff to discuss and it went south real quick!

You guys want to fight? Then go on bird-droppings and rip each other to pieces. I don't care who doesn't like who on this board, but it has nothing to do with the Cardinals, and has nothing to do with the post at the top of this thread.

Ridiculous!

Personally I love you all ! Enter bid for oscar nomination!

So chill men! Go take shot of whiskey, or a toke!

Peace

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I agree this is a good thread started by Tango.

Unfortunately it has turned into your typical fight between homers and haters.

It is funny though to watch them nitpick and tear apart every word, but not truely understand what their "adversary" is saying.

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by AZCB34
WR is a position which will need watching. Development is key. Early returns are Boldin is the real deal and Graves did well, Johnson has been a whif thusfar but nowhere close to being labeled bust

I was planning to post a comment on Johnson's performance as a follow-up, but in doing so I just realized that I totaly misread your orginal post.

My orginal post that got you so pissed off was based on a misconception. I failed the read it correctly.

You posted "nowhere close to being labeled bust", I read "close to being labeled bust".

My bad, I spaced on the the critical word "nowhere", it rather changes the context of your post. Opps.