Where's Boldin?

[Black Jesus]

I love Anquan, I started this topic because the bal never seemed to be headed in his direction during the game. I actually posted this right after the Larry Fitz screen pass for 2 yards because I believe plays that are designed for short and run and break tackles should be for Anquan and not Larry because Anquan can break 5 tackles on one play and Larry cant....


Keep giving the deep ball and endzone toss up to Larry, but the Slant over the middle, the screen pass, and the hitch should all be for Boldin.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

much better would Q and Fitz be if we had a deep threat that could be counted on?

Not much. I doubt that you can get much better than they already are. If we had a deep threat that "could be counted on" I don't think that Q's or Fitz stats change all that much.

 

[kerouac9]

But that stat is misleading because that's really all we ask Johnson to do. Boldin and Fitz get all the coverages, and Johnson gets single cover. Look at the TD pass yesterday, single coverage no safety around, Boldin and Fitz just don't get that.

Johnson is having a very good year though I'll agree with that, 4 TD's nearly 19 YPC, can't complain about that from a #3 WR.

Obviously I don't think that Bryant Johnson is a Top 15 wideout, but a lot of people here seem to think that guys like #80 are a dime a dozen and can be had for half the price. I'm not so sure. Bryant is a really, really good #3 WR, and I wouldn't trade him for more than a half-dozen #3s in the NFL (Kevin Curtis and Chris Henry spring immediately to mind, but I could probably think of a handful more if I thought about it). He's part of the solution right now, not part of the problem.

 

[BigRedArk]

Not much. I doubt that you can get much better than they already are. If we had a deep threat that "could be counted on" I don't think that Q's or Fitz stats change all that much.

I thought the O that we are running was built for a 3 WR set? Look at when DG was in Minny. Moss was the feared deep threat along with Carter and Jake Reid ( I think that was his name). Those three guys were a legit threat and even Reid contributed and carried his share of the load if I remember correctly. BJ does not carry his share of the load. In fact he drops it at the most inopportune times IMHO.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Anquan's tied for 15th in first down receptions, though. Behind basically all the guys that I named on my list, and a couple I forgot, like T.O., Javon Walker, and Crotchery.

EDIT: Also, Anquan's 5th in the league in Targets, behind A. Johnson, D. Driver, T. Holt, and C. Chambers. Tied with T.O. and Ocho Cinco.

The guy gets more catches than almost anyone because he gets more looks than almost anyone, but the chicken and egg argument can be made here, as well.

EDIT (again): Interestingly, Anquan doesn't even make the Top 20 in terms of 1st Down percentage. Looking at these, it makes me appreciate how much better Bryant Johnson is than a lot of us give him credit for. He's in the Top 15 of "big play" WRs (over 25 yards) with 8. He's in the Top 10 in 1st down percentage (80.6% of his catches lead to a first down).

Are these WR only stats? Did you include RB's in this equation (first downs?) I seem to remember 3-5 rb's on that list which isnt a fair comparision.

By the way, another skewing here is thefact that the Cards have a rookie QB. We have to take that into account when measuring WR stats. I am not exactly how to give a + or - for it, but it certainly needs to be included/

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Obviously I don't think that Bryant Johnson is a Top 15 wideout, but a lot of people here seem to think that guys like #80 are a dime a dozen and can be had for half the price. I'm not so sure. Bryant is a really, really good #3 WR, and I wouldn't trade him for more than a half-dozen #3s in the NFL (Kevin Curtis and Chris Henry spring immediately to mind, but I could probably think of a handful more if I thought about it). He's part of the solution right now, not part of the problem.

wow Chris Henry love... i like it!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Ugh!

This fight again?

Where was Boldin? He was on the field winning the f'n game. I can care less about how many catches the guy gets, how many yards, how many TD's. The Cardinals won the game, and Boldin made 4 catches to contribute to the win.

I can care less about what K9 thinks about him since, I know what he thinks about Q, and everyone on this board should know that K9 thinks Boldin is the worse WR of all time. Or just an average WR, or over rated! Whatever. K9 thinks Boldin stinks, others think he is great.

You want to fight with K9 about it? Fine. Waste your time cause he rarely changes his mind about anything.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Obviously I don't think that Bryant Johnson is a Top 15 wideout, but a lot of people here seem to think that guys like #80 are a dime a dozen and can be had for half the price. I'm not so sure. Bryant is a really, really good #3 WR, and I wouldn't trade him for more than a half-dozen #3s in the NFL (Kevin Curtis and Chris Henry spring immediately to mind, but I could probably think of a handful more if I thought about it). He's part of the solution right now, not part of the problem.

K9.

I cannot figure you out when it comes to WR's.

You say Boldin is a dime a dozen in one thread, and then say Bryant Johnson is NOT a dime a dozen in another?

Very confusing. But whatever I know better then to get into this.

I will very carefully ask... Are you saying that Bryant Johnson is not a "dime a dozen" #3 WR in the NFL?

Cause that I can see being debatable. WHEN Johnson catches the ball he is a huge threat, and has the potential to be one of if not the best #3 WR in the league.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'm banning any Maurice Jones Drew talk . The guy singlehandedly knocked me out of my fantasy football playoffs yesterday. How would a guy start him in the playoffs. Unbelieveable. I lose by 6 points to that team .

He got me 50 pts! in my league.

Talk him up!

 

[kerouac9]

Collecting thoughts...

Wow Chris Henry love... i like it!

Hey, I was the guy who wanted to draft Henry in the third round. I think my idea for that draft went Sean Taylor, Tatum Bell, Chris Henry. I have mad love for Chris Henry.

Are you saying that Bryant Johnson is not a "dime a dozen" #3 WR in the NFL?

Cause that I can see being debatable. WHEN Johnson catches the ball he is a huge threat, and has the potential to be one of if not the best #3 WR in the league.

No, I do not think that Bryant Johnson is a "dime a dozen" #3. I think that he's among the top 6 or so #3s in the NFL, and I think he'd be difficult to replace with a similar talent at a similar price. I think he'd be an adequate #2 if pressed into service there (though his play when #11 was out speaks to the contrary). I like Bryant Johnson a lot, if for little else than how well he accepts his role. I don't think Chris Henry will be happy for long as the #3 in Cincy. As I said, I like only Henry and Curtis more than Johnson as the #3, just off the top of my head. I like the Seahawks' Bobby Engram a lot, as well, but he's a different kind of player (like a homeless man's Anquan Boldin).

 

[CardLogic]

Obviously I don't think that Bryant Johnson is a Top 15 wideout, but a lot of people here seem to think that guys like #80 are a dime a dozen and can be had for half the price. I'm not so sure. Bryant is a really, really good #3 WR, and I wouldn't trade him for more than a half-dozen #3s in the NFL (Kevin Curtis and Chris Henry spring immediately to mind, but I could probably think of a handful more if I thought about it). He's part of the solution right now, not part of the problem.

Johnson's numbers across the board are significantly better than either Henry's or Curtis'...


Which makes comments like those by BigRedArk seem all the more off-base!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

No, I do not think that Bryant Johnson is a "dime a dozen" #3. I think that he's among the top 6 or so #3s in the NFL, and I think he'd be difficult to replace with a similar talent at a similar price. I think he'd be an adequate #2 if pressed into service there (though his play when #11 was out speaks to the contrary). I like Bryant Johnson a lot, if for little else than how well he accepts his role. I don't think Chris Henry will be happy for long as the #3 in Cincy. As I said, I like only Henry and Curtis more than Johnson as the #3, just off the top of my head. I like the Seahawks' Bobby Engram a lot, as well, but he's a different kind of player (like a homeless man's Anquan Boldin).

Thanks for clearing that up.

Totally agree.

 

[football karma]

this is tiresome

"Boldin is really good"

"No! He is really, really good"

"No! He is just really good"

repeat ad infinatum

 

[BigRedArk]

Hey, I was the guy who wanted to draft Henry in the third round. I think my idea for that draft went Sean Taylor, Tatum Bell, Chris Henry. I have mad love for Chris Henry.



No, I do not think that Bryant Johnson is a "dime a dozen" #3. I think that he's among the top 6 or so #3s in the NFL, and I think he'd be difficult to replace with a similar talent at a similar price. I think he'd be an adequate #2 if pressed into service there (though his play when #11 was out speaks to the contrary). I like Bryant Johnson a lot, if for little else than how well he accepts his role. I don't think Chris Henry will be happy for long as the #3 in Cincy. As I said, I like only Henry and Curtis more than Johnson as the #3, just off the top of my head. I like the Seahawks' Bobby Engram a lot, as well, but he's a different kind of player (like a homeless man's Anquan Boldin).

Ok. Here is a question I have for you. Since it is quite obvious that Q and Fitz get the vast majority of the looks shouldn't that in fact spring BJ in single coverage more-so? If it does why doesn't he get more passes thrown to him then and therby more TD's?

If BJ was good enough it seems like there would be a valley in the opposing D's scheme that could be taken advantage of couldn't there be? In other words couldn't we force the opposing D to shift their focus by throwing to him more and burning them more for TD passes as his role is that of a deep threat than we are now?

 

[Chopper0080]

Well that is the idea, we just haven't executed it. Johnson should be making plays down the field like he did on Sunday but we have only recently gave him the opportunity.

 

[BigRedArk]

Well that is the idea, we just haven't executed it. Johnson should be making plays down the field like he did on Sunday but we have only recently gave him the opportunity.

And why haven't we I continue to wonder? He is what a 4 yr veteran? Maybe the coaches and QB's don't have confidence in him????

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah, maybe, but I think that you reward a rookie who put up insane numbers in a situation where it might have been hard to succeed. He's 14th in the league in yardage dispite missing a quarter of the season. He has 11 fewer receptions than the guy behind him on the yardage list (Torry Holt), and 16 fewer than the guy ahead of him by four yards (L. Coles). The kid's had an amazing year. 5th in the NFC in TDs. 7th in reception yards. Probably would have shattered the rookie receiving record had he been able to stay healthy, and he's a 7th round pick.

Reminds me of Anquan Boldin's rookie year.

But then Marcel Shipp and Jeff Blake and Josh Scobey and Larry Foster and Bryan Gilmore weren't exactly Duece McAllister, Drew Brees, Reggie Bush, Devery Henderson and Joe Horn.

Teams could have quadruple covered Boldin and not had to worry about the other clowns on that offense. Man, there was a lot of talent on that 2003 Cardinals team.

 

[kerouac9]

Reminds me of Anquan Boldin's rookie year.

But then Marcel Shipp and Jeff Blake and Josh Scobey and Larry Foster and Bryan Gilmore weren't exactly Duece McAllister, Drew Brees, Reggie Bush, Devery Henderson and Joe Horn.

Teams could have quadruple covered Boldin and not had to worry about the other clowns on that offense. Man, there was a lot of talent on that 2003 Cardinals team.

Yeah. I wonder if had Colston stayed healthy, would he have shattered the rookie yardage record, if not the reception record. Apparently, the reason that he went so low in the draft is that his coaches at Hofstra hated him and talked bad about him to all the scouts (this is according to Bill Simmons on ESPN.com, who has a "Friend Who Knows Things.").

As you remember Anquan got a trip to Honolulu that year, even if he didn't win the ROY award outright (the Texas RB did). Anquan did win OROY.

Since it is quite obvious that Q and Fitz get the vast majority of the looks shouldn't that in fact spring BJ in single coverage more-so? If it does why doesn't he get more passes thrown to him then and therby more TD's?

Q and Fitz get more attention, but I don't think they get a lot of extra coverage. As I've said ad nauseum, teams don't roll "bracket" coverage on Anquan because he's not a threat over the top. If anything, they might platoon a linebacker over there to get a body on him, but that doesn't open up the deep routes for Bryant. If anything, Bryant's presence on the field helps open the underneath stuff for Anquan, because defenses have to go into a Cover-1 or Cover-2 defense to help out on Fitz and Bryant.

Fitz often sees "bracket" coverage. Anquan almost never does.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Yeah. I wonder if had Colston stayed healthy, would he have shattered the rookie yardage record, if not the reception record. Apparently, the reason that he went so low in the draft is that his coaches at Hofstra hated him and talked bad about him to all the scouts (this is according to Bill Simmons on ESPN.com, who has a "Friend Who Knows Things.").

As you remember Anquan got a trip to Honolulu that year, even if he didn't win the ROY award outright (the Texas RB did). Anquan did win OROY.



Q and Fitz get more attention, but I don't think they get a lot of extra coverage. As I've said ad nauseum, teams don't roll "bracket" coverage on Anquan because he's not a threat over the top. If anything, they might platoon a linebacker over there to get a body on him, but that doesn't open up the deep routes for Bryant. If anything, Bryant's presence on the field helps open the underneath stuff for Anquan, because defenses have to go into a Cover-1 or Cover-2 defense to help out on Fitz and Bryant.

Fitz often sees "bracket" coverage. Anquan almost never does.

Good observation.

 

[BigRedArk]

Yeah. I wonder if had Colston stayed healthy, would he have shattered the rookie yardage record, if not the reception record. Apparently, the reason that he went so low in the draft is that his coaches at Hofstra hated him and talked bad about him to all the scouts (this is according to Bill Simmons on ESPN.com, who has a "Friend Who Knows Things.").

As you remember Anquan got a trip to Honolulu that year, even if he didn't win the ROY award outright (the Texas RB did). Anquan did win OROY.



Q and Fitz get more attention, but I don't think they get a lot of extra coverage. As I've said ad nauseum, teams don't roll "bracket" coverage on Anquan because he's not a threat over the top. If anything, they might platoon a linebacker over there to get a body on him, but that doesn't open up the deep routes for Bryant. If anything, Bryant's presence on the field helps open the underneath stuff for Anquan, because defenses have to go into a Cover-1 or Cover-2 defense to help out on Fitz and Bryant.

Fitz often sees "bracket" coverage. Anquan almost never does.

Ok. Thanks for explaining that K9. I still don't like BJ and I hope we don't resign him. I still think there is a better deep threat somewhere that could be had but i presume it just isn't a priority with the Cards coaching staff. Nevertheless I will do my best to let my disappointment in him go. Boldin is still a better receiver and much more valuable than BJ is.

Just for the record that was a good TD catch BJ made Sunday.

 

[Skkorpion]

Just reviewed the game. For almost the entire game, Seattle put Marcus Truffant one on one against Boldin all over the field. Clearly Holmgren decided that Boldin would not beat Seattle.

Smartly, Leinart rarely even looked Boldin's way. Anquan was used as a decoy all day.

It will be interesting to see how Denver uses Champ Bailey.

 

[Duckjake]

Just reviewed the game. For almost the entire game, Seattle put Marcus Truffant one on one against Boldin all over the field. Clearly Holmgren decided that Boldin would not beat Seattle.

Smartly, Leinart rarely even looked Boldin's way. Anquan was used as a decoy all day.

It will be interesting to see how Denver uses Champ Bailey.

You're kidding right? Nobody would put their #1 cover guy on Boldin.

 

[Pariah]

I'm really interested to see how denver tries to use Bailey -- if we try to go deep on Denver we might be asking for trouble. But, if we have agame plan that exploits the size difference between our much stronger WRs vs DEN's smallish but speedy CBs, then Denver could be in for a long day.

Last year, Denver blitzed like crazy. This year, they've dialed that back and have been trying to bring pressure with their front four to mixed results. Lately their pressure has been tapering off.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Smartly, Leinart rarely even looked Boldin's way. Anquan was used as a decoy all day.

That is what I like so much about Leinart, he doesn't really have that receiver that he looks for every time. He basically finds the open man and gets him the ball. It must be nice to have the weapons that he does.

I've watched several interviews of opposing teams players and they always mention Anquan as the player that they account for at all times. Boldin has made entire secondarys look like fools on a signal play. Toss in Fitz and you have a guy that is a matchup problem for 90% of the DBs out there. Then you have Johnson who is starting to make plays and there isn't a #3 DB out there that should be able to contain him.

I think keeping Johnson should be a priority. He's not a #1 but he doesn't have to be on this team. He just needs to keep doing what he did against Seattle. Stretch the field and make plays when teams try and single cover him.

 

[BigDavis75]

I'm really interested to see how denver tries to use Bailey -- if we try to go deep on Denver we might be asking for trouble. But, if we have agame plan that exploits the size difference between our much stronger WRs vs DEN's smallish but speedy CBs, then Denver could be in for a long day.

Last year, Denver blitzed like crazy. This year, they've dialed that back and have been trying to bring pressure with their front four to mixed results. Lately their pressure has been tapering off.

I like how we match up with DEN. It will probably be Bailey on Fitz, Darrent Williams on Q, and Foxworth on BJ. DDEN has played a lot of 3 corner 1 S since Ferguson's injury and it hasn't been that successful. I can see Foxworth getting torched all day long and I like Qs size against Williams, who is a good corner but seems to get picked on a fair amount (he's like 5'9").