Where's K-9??

[Duckjake]

My god if you watched the games and can honestly tell me he wasn't 1 of our 2 best LB'ers and you were unhappy with his pick as a 2nd rounder, I don't know what to tell you.

You can bring up whatever stats you want the bottom line is his rookie stat line was very good and he wasnt the problem on our bad defense. He moved to the ball lightining fast, was in one most plays, and tackled pretty well. Once he gets better DT play over the course of the season hes only going to get better.

I can't believe you are so thick headed K-9 that you can't **** and just say, I may have been wrong on that one and continue to justify your ludicrous point. The play of Washington was one of the few bright spots in an otherwise dreary year.

And your only going to look stupider for it next year as he is going to only get better and better.

Haggans,Porter,Hayes,Lenon,Walker,Obiozor,Scofield? Heck Washington was our best LB. But he's the same size as our SS and that will always be a liability until the Cards get two OLBs and a SILB with some size to offset Washington's lack of it. A bunch of 240lb 33 year olds won't cut it.

Now the Cards are thinking of putting the 238lb Scofield on the same side with DW? They'll get steamrolled every Sunday. There is a reason the Cards gave up 145 yards per game rushing vs 112 in 2009 and it's not Dereck Anderson or Max Hall. It's that the D was too small. 145 yards per game! My gawd that's horrible.

 

[WarnerHOF]

Yes. He looked AWESOME when the 49ers were putting 38 points on us in the season finale. And when Jonathan Stewart put up 137 yards against us in Carolina? Studly.

Check out his playmaking in that Carolina game:

2-11-ARI 16 (11:13) 33-M.Goodson up the middle to ARZ 10 for 6 yards (58-D.Washington).

1-10-CAR 9 (6:56) 28-J.Stewart up the middle to CAR 18 for 9 yards (58-D.Washington, 25-K.Rhodes).

3-20-CAR 44 (5:03) (Shotgun) 2-J.Clausen pass short middle to 33-M.Goodson to 50 for 6 yards (58-D.Washington).

Once Carolina was up 19 to 3 and Carolina was spinning clock, Daryl really turned it on.

1-10-ARI 27 (8:41) 28-J.Stewart left end to ARZ 29 for -2 yards (58-D.Washington).

2-4-ARI 44 (3:37) 33-M.Goodson right end to ARZ 47 for -3 yards (58-D.Washington).

Making big plays is just what Daryl Washington does. He's nothing like Raynoch Thompson.

I remember the 09, 08 (regular season), 07 games against the Panthers being much much worse efforts by the D than 2010 so I'm not really sure if Daryl Washington is the odd one out here.

 

[Duckjake]

I remember the 09, 08 (regular season), 07 games against the Panthers being much much worse efforts by the D than 2010 so I'm not really sure if Daryl Washington is the odd one out here.

The Panthers, a 2-14 team, gained 177 yards rushing vs Cards in 2010. In 2008 regular the Panthers, a 12-4 team, only gained 113. How is that a much much worse effort?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Lol

Yep. Donald can't hide in this thread either.

 

[kerouac9]

Haggans,Porter,Hayes,Lenon,Walker,Obiozor,Scofield? Heck Washington was our best LB. But he's the same size as our SS and that will always be a liability until the Cards get two OLBs and a SILB with some size to offset Washington's lack of it. A bunch of 240lb 33 year olds won't cut it.

Now the Cards are thinking of putting the 238lb Scofield on the same side with DW? They'll get steamrolled every Sunday. There is a reason the Cards gave up 145 yards per game rushing vs 112 in 2009 and it's not Dereck Anderson or Max Hall. It's that the D was too small. 145 yards per game! My gawd that's horrible.

This isn't fair. Schofield's 238 was at the beginning of camp, when he was beginning rehab from his knee injury (that's when you weigh in for the whole season's listing). At the end of the year, he was playing around 240, and he hopes to come into camp around 250. I think he'll get bigger than that over the next couple seasons.

 

[MadCardDisease]

You can laugh at Peter King also!

 

[TJ]

Haggans,Porter,Hayes,Lenon,Walker,Obiozor,Scofield? Heck Washington was our best LB. But he's the same size as our SS and that will always be a liability until the Cards get two OLBs and a SILB with some size to offset Washington's lack of it. A bunch of 240lb 33 year olds won't cut it.

Now the Cards are thinking of putting the 238lb Scofield on the same side with DW? They'll get steamrolled every Sunday. There is a reason the Cards gave up 145 yards per game rushing vs 112 in 2009 and it's not Dereck Anderson or Max Hall. It's that the D was too small. 145 yards per game! My gawd that's horrible.

In John Lott we trust. If he needs to beef up to 245 or so, he'll get there. Rememeber, he spent about 6 months not doing heavy lifting so naturally, he's gonna lose weight.

I am getting on the Scofield bandwagon. In the small amount of time Ive seen of him,I saw he plays with a high motor. 2 sacks in 2 starts is impressive. IMO, this covers one OLB slot. We need one more to form depth

With that said, I am not opposed to keeping Porter. Of course he is a shell of his former self; however, I felt the schemes really hurt him. He did have 5 sacks which Ill admit is underwhelming given his past accomplishments, but I see younger players learning vicariously though his technique and veteran presence

 

[ASUCHRIS]

With that said, I am not opposed to keeping Porter. Of course he is a shell of his former self; however, I felt the schemes really hurt him. He did have 5 sacks which Ill admit is underwhelming given his past accomplishments, but I see younger players learning vicariously though his technique and veteran presence

Not at 4.5 million.

 

[Mulli]

Not at 4.5 million.

Cards can afford.

 

[TJ]

Not at 4.5 million.

Not my money

Plus,. I think we'd be doing a disservice to ourselves if we let him go, especially if we bring in a Steeler defensive coordinators, whether it be Butler, Horton or Lebeau. Any of those guys are familiar with Porter and know how to use him properly. The main issue last season was Billy Davis dropping him into coverage too many times. Doesnt make sense when he's a pure pass rusher. As I have stated in the past, I believe a good pass rush masks any deficiencies, small or large, in pass coverage. Taking the leash off of him should bring out more productivity.

Moreover, Porter had 50 tackles and 5 sacks in 2010. Compare that to the previous season when Okeafor had 47 tackles and 4.5 sacks and B-Train, who had 6 sacks but only registered 10 total tackles. So in all honesty, the substitution of them for Porter was a lateral move, give or take. IMO, Porter has a much better skill set than those two and when used properly, can out perform them.

 

[desertdawg]

Not my money

Plus,. I think we'd be doing a disservice to ourselves if we let him go, especially if we bring in a Steeler defensive coordinators, whether it be Butler, Horton or Lebeau. Any of those guys are familiar with Porter and know how to use him properly. The main issue last season was Billy Davis dropping him into coverage too many times. Doesnt make sense when he's a pure pass rusher. As I have stated in the past, I believe a good pass rush masks any deficiencies, small or large, in pass coverage. Taking the leash off of him should bring out more productivity.

Moreover, Porter had 50 tackles and 5 sacks in 2010. Compare that to the previous season when Okeafor had 47 tackles and 4.5 sacks and B-Train, who had 6 sacks but only registered 10 total tackles. So in all honesty, the substitution of them for Porter was a lateral move, give or take. IMO, Porter has a much better skill set than those two and when used properly, can out perform them.

Yup.

 

[splitsecond]

Lets also add that getting a DC who isnt scrotally attached to Bryan Robinson and will play Dan Williams when Dan Williams needs to be in the game will make a HUGE difference in Washington's playmaking ability.

Schofield will be bigger as well. James Harrison only lists at 240 lbs, fyi.

 

[kerouac9]

Not my money

Plus,. I think we'd be doing a disservice to ourselves if we let him go, especially if we bring in a Steeler defensive coordinators, whether it be Butler, Horton or Lebeau. Any of those guys are familiar with Porter and know how to use him properly. The main issue last season was Billy Davis dropping him into coverage too many times. Doesnt make sense when he's a pure pass rusher. As I have stated in the past, I believe a good pass rush masks any deficiencies, small or large, in pass coverage. Taking the leash off of him should bring out more productivity.

Moreover, Porter had 50 tackles and 5 sacks in 2010. Compare that to the previous season when Okeafor had 47 tackles and 4.5 sacks and B-Train, who had 6 sacks but only registered 10 total tackles. So in all honesty, the substitution of them for Porter was a lateral move, give or take. IMO, Porter has a much better skill set than those two and when used properly, can out perform them.

I don't think that's the case. Porter and Berry were rarely on the field at the same time, so if you combine both rush LBs, then that position produced 10.5 sacks.

The problem with Porter is that he can't defeat single-blocking even against below-average OLTs like Mario Henderson. He was flat-out awful against bad left tackles. Porter's sack production was worse than Calais Campbell's, who many here believe had a terrible season. Porter's sack production was equivalent to Clark Haggans's, who was injured the entire second half of the season. Porter was not asked to drop into coverage frequently.

According to rotoworld.com, Porter is scheduled to make $5.75 million in 2011. I think he's a guy who we'll keep on the roster through the draft and free agency just in case someone better doesn't come along, but I don't think that anyone should pretend that Porter isn't in the bottom third of the league at his position. He was by far our least productive linebacker last year, including Paris Lenon and Gerald Hayes.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Cards can afford.

True, but I'd prefer to pay that scratch for a better player. Further, Urban continues to hint that he gone.

He gone!

 

[TJ]

I don't think that's the case. Porter and Berry were rarely on the field at the same time, so if you combine both rush LBs, then that position produced 10.5 sacks.

The problem with Porter is that he can't defeat single-blocking even against below-average OLTs like Mario Henderson. He was flat-out awful against bad left tackles. Porter's sack production was worse than Calais Campbell's, who many here believe had a terrible season. Porter's sack production was equivalent to Clark Haggans's, who was injured the entire second half of the season. Porter was not asked to drop into coverage frequently.

According to rotoworld.com, Porter is scheduled to make $5.75 million in 2011. I think he's a guy who we'll keep on the roster through the draft and free agency just in case someone better doesn't come along, but I don't think that anyone should pretend that Porter isn't in the bottom third of the league at his position. He was by far our least productive linebacker last year, including Paris Lenon and Gerald Hayes.

I understand what youre saying about his technique; however, I refuse to believe it deteriorated as much as it did from 2009 to 2010 even against sub par LTs. A lot of it was motivation. We saw many of our talented defenders under perform this season. I attribute this to poor scheme and poor leadership from the DC, which many players implied and were probably jubilant when he was fired.

Paris Lenon was by far our most consistent linebacker so I wont disagree with that but Gerald Hayes?! I dont think so. I think the bar is set higher on Porter given his past achievements (like the 17 sack season), so its very easy to say he was our most unproductive linebacker. Again, bring in a Steeler-type DC and we'll see improved results.

With that said, if we do hire a Steeler DC, I think he will be more inclined to keep him for at least one more season even if he is scheduled to make $5 + mil next season. I dont think its a good idea to cut him this season. The Whiz track record is to not start rookies immediately so a crafty verteran like Porter is imperative to the young player's development.

Let's see what transpires between now and the draft. You may be right that we have an Edgerrin James situation on our hands where there was a contingency plan in place if a RB wasn't drafted (in this case, Beanie Wells was the guy which ultimately led to Edge being cut). I sincerely hope this isnt the case with Porter.

 

[kerouac9]

I understand what youre saying about his technique; however, I refuse to believe it deteriorated as much as it did from 2009 to 2010 even against sub par LTs. A lot of it was motivation. We saw many of our talented defenders under perform this season. I attribute this to poor scheme and poor leadership from the DC, which many players implied and were probably jubilant when he was fired.

Paris Lenon was by far our most consistent linebacker so I wont disagree with that but Gerald Hayes?! I dont think so. I think the bar is set higher on Porter given his past achievements (like the 17 sack season), so its very easy to say he was our most unproductive linebacker. Again, bring in a Steeler-type DC and we'll see improved results.

With that said, if we do hire a Steeler DC, I think he will be more inclined to keep him for at least one more season even if he is scheduled to make $5 + mil next season. I dont think its a good idea to cut him this season. The Whiz track record is to not start rookies immediately so a crafty verteran like Porter is imperative to the young player's development.

Let's see what transpires between now and the draft. You may be right that we have an Edgerrin James situation on our hands where there was a contingency plan in place if a RB wasn't drafted (in this case, Beanie Wells was the guy which ultimately led to Edge being cut). I sincerely hope this isnt the case with Porter.

Sounds like the conversation that we had about Alan Faneca last spring. Didn't work out well. Bill Davis was a Steelers-school defensive coach.

Porter was terrible for the Dolphins in '09, and he was terrible for us in '10. Unless Keith Butler or Dick LeBeau or whomever brings the Fountain of Youth with him from Pittsburgh, or some kind of time machine, I doubt that suddenly Joey Porter, who couldn't be motivated to earn $5.75 million in 2011 enough to get more sacks than Calais Campbell, will become a good OLB.

There is nothing "crafty" about Joey Porter. If he was "crafty," he wouldn't have been taken to the woodshed by Mario Henderson.

 

[Duckjake]

This isn't fair. Schofield's 238 was at the beginning of camp, when he was beginning rehab from his knee injury (that's when you weigh in for the whole season's listing). At the end of the year, he was playing around 240, and he hopes to come into camp around 250. I think he'll get bigger than that over the next couple seasons.

I'll believe it when I see it. People are always saying "he'll" get bigger or "he" just needs more playing time or Lott will fix "him" but I never see it work out for the Cards. Our OLBs need to be 255+ for me to be happy.

 

[Duckjake]

In John Lott we trust. If he needs to beef up to 245 or so, he'll get there. Rememeber, he spent about 6 months not doing heavy lifting so naturally, he's gonna lose weight.

I am getting on the Scofield bandwagon. In the small amount of time Ive seen of him,I saw he plays with a high motor. 2 sacks in 2 starts is impressive. IMO, this covers one OLB slot. We need one more to form depth

With that said, I am not opposed to keeping Porter. Of course he is a shell of his former self; however, I felt the schemes really hurt him. He did have 5 sacks which Ill admit is underwhelming given his past accomplishments, but I see younger players learning vicariously though his technique and veteran presence

That is still too small. He needs to get to 255. Can he do that?

 

[TJ]

That is still too small. He needs to get to 255. Can he do that?

Sure but is that really the ideal weight you want a speed rusher? 255 could be too bulky for him. IMO Lott is the best judge of character in that department. James Harrison plays fine at 245. I'm not the least bit concerned

 

[Duckjake]

Lets also add that getting a DC who isnt scrotally attached to Bryan Robinson and will play Dan Williams when Dan Williams needs to be in the game will make a HUGE difference in Washington's playmaking ability.

Schofield will be bigger as well. James Harrison only lists at 240 lbs, fyi.

This has been beaten to death. Harrison is a stump. Scofield is not. Funny though that people like to bring up Harrison but never mention Woodley on the other side at 6'2" 265 or the guy the Steelers just drafted Worilds at 6'1" 262.

Get me Jeremy Beal and Kelvin Sheppard for one side and I might be able to live with a 240-245lb Scofield and DWash on the other but having two small LBs is a recipe for disaster as teams with big running backs will continue to punish the Cards defense.

 

[Duckjake]

Sure but is that really the ideal weight you want a speed rusher? 255 could be too bulky for him. IMO Lott is the best judge of character in that department. James Harrison plays fine at 245. I'm not the least bit concerned

Lott is vastly overrated as far as I'm concerned. Him and Grimm both.

The Cards haven't utilized a speed rusher in years. They line their guys up over the OT that outweighs them by 75lbs and have them run right into them. So maybe a new DC will help.

 

[TJ]

Sounds like the conversation that we had about Alan Faneca last spring. Didn't work out well. Bill Davis was a Steelers-school defensive coach.

Porter was terrible for the Dolphins in '09, and he was terrible for us in '10. Unless Keith Butler or Dick LeBeau or whomever brings the Fountain of Youth with him from Pittsburgh, or some kind of time machine, I doubt that suddenly Joey Porter, who couldn't be motivated to earn $5.75 million in 2011 enough to get more sacks than Calais Campbell, will become a good OLB.

There is nothing "crafty" about Joey Porter. If he was "crafty," he wouldn't have been taken to the woodshed by Mario Henderson.

Billy Davis is also an imbecile who epically failed w/ San Francisco. I wouldnt use that in your argument.

As for Porter, he wasnt terrible with Miami in 09. He registered 9 sacks despite being a bench player. He didnt play much because Sporano didn't like his attitude.

And yes, Porter is crafty. If you look at his body of work and past accomplishments, you will see more successes than failures. Cant deny this.

The common denominator IMO on defense was lack of motivation and poor scheme. DRC struggled. A Dubb struggled. Dockett struggled. etc etc etc. What's to say that Porter, who has been a sack machine in his career, didnt fall into the same trap?

 

[Duckjake]

Billy Davis is also an imbecile who epically failed w/ San Francisco. I wouldnt use that in your argument.

As for Porter, he wasnt terrible with Miami in 09. He registered 9 sacks despite being a bench player. He didnt play much because Sporano didn't like his attitude.

And yes, Porter is crafty. If you look at his body of work and past accomplishments, you will see more successes than failures. Cant deny this.

The common denominator IMO on defense was lack of motivation and poor scheme. DRC struggled. A Dubb struggled. Dockett struggled. etc etc etc. What's to say that Porter, who has been a sack machine in his career, didn't fall into the same trap?[/QUOTE]

I go along with you on this. One of the most disappointing things about the Defense for me in 2010 is that Wilson was talking about how adding Porter and Rhodes and getting rid of the me first guys was going to really bring a new positive attitude to the Defense. And then they all underperformed looking softer than ever.

Just saw the garbage the Cards had at QB and gave up instead of saying ok we have no offense but if we lose its going to be 13-6 and the other boys are going home black and blue? Who knows? But we do know it wasn't pretty.

 

[kerouac9]

I'll believe it when I see it. People are always saying "he'll" get bigger or "he" just needs more playing time or Lott will fix "him" but I never see it work out for the Cards. Our OLBs need to be 255+ for me to be happy.

Schofield played at 248 in college: http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/schofield_obrien00.html

I think he has the frame to get bigger/stronger. He's said that he wants to come in to camp at 250. I hope that happens. Jason Taylor plays at 6'6", 250.

Billy Davis is also an imbecile who epically failed w/ San Francisco. I wouldnt use that in your argument.

As for Porter, he wasnt terrible with Miami in 09. He registered 9 sacks despite being a bench player. He didnt play much because Sporano didn't like his attitude.

And yes, Porter is crafty. If you look at his body of work and past accomplishments, you will see more successes than failures. Cant deny this.

The common denominator IMO on defense was lack of motivation and poor scheme. DRC struggled. A Dubb struggled. Dockett struggled. etc etc etc. What's to say that Porter, who has been a sack machine in his career, didnt fall into the same trap?

Well, the main reason that Joey Porter was brought in here was to provide motivation and leadership. That's what your over-the-hill veterans are supposed to provide.

The problem WAS NOT poor scheme. Players were consistently in position to make plays. It's not Bill Davis's fault that Paris Lenon couldn't wrap anyone up. It's not Bill Davis's responsibility to make sure that Adrian Wilson makes a play on the ball in coverage when he's in a position to. Or wraps up the rotting corpse of Brian Westbrook in the red zone.

It wasn't often that opposing offenses were running free from the line of scrimmage to the end zone. THAT'S a result of poor scheme. More often than not, players weren't winning one-on-one battles, and that's because the players weren't good enough.

 

[Duckjake]

Schofield played at 248 in college: http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-fo..._obrien00.html

I think he has the frame to get bigger/stronger. He's said that he wants to come in to camp at 250. I hope that happens. Jason Taylor plays at 6'6", 250.

The Jets also have Calvin Pace at 265 at the other OLB. So like I said I could live with Scofield on one side if the Cards have a guy like Beal at 265 on the other. Still don't like having Washington and Scofield together.

They don't weigh as much combined as Lutui.