Which draft move was worse? 2 choices

[WickedKoolFan]

Too much to speculate on AP on AZ. We had the worst offensive line in '07, with a $32 million RB signed. AP was a fumbling, injury prone running back that even he wouldn't have been able to run behind our online.
Tough decision, but I think the Cards front office learned to draft for BPA instead of need.

 

[THESMEL]

yep

I had Levi Graded equal to AP and Joe Thomas. With The Edge and Leinart starting it only made sense to draft the rush game road grader at tackle. either tackle! I wish we would not have treated LD like dung, and I'm talking the fans! He might have signed long term and been the premier oline of our era, with Wells, Deuce and UFA Sendlein.

I'm so happy stupid fans didn't run Levi off like LD and the front office paid him well. our culture is still poisonous, Levi has a lot of character.

Too much to speculate on AP on AZ. We had the worst offensive line in '07, with a $32 million RB signed. AP was a fumbling, injury prone running back that even he wouldn't have been able to run behind our online.
Tough decision, but I think the Cards front office learned to draft for BPA instead of need.

 

[earthsci]

Sorry, if not corrected already... It was Calvin Pace & Bryant Johnson instead of Terrell Suggs.... and yes an awful move

...and see, this is where everyone complains about this trade and how awful we were for doing it. I've got news for you folks, if we stayed at #6 we were drafting Johnathan Sullivan, just like New Orleans did. Complain all that you want but Suggs was not getting drafted by us at #6.

 

[Duckjake]

Too much to speculate on AP on AZ. We had the worst offensive line in '07, with a $32 million RB signed. AP was a fumbling, injury prone running back that even he wouldn't have been able to run behind our online.
Tough decision, but I think the Cards front office learned to draft for BPA instead of need.

I don't think the line was that bad in 2007. The Cards sack % was under 4. Lower than it was in 2008. If Edge at 29 could run for 1,222 yards and 7 TDs in 2007 I think Peterson would have done just fine in Arizona.

 

[splitsecond]

wendel bryant and bryan johnson instead of terrel suggs.. the worst move ever

this

 

[Shane]

This post is pretty bad, for all of the reasons you didn't mention, but the dumbest thing I've ever seen written on this board is that Roy Williams would be a better pro than Larry Fitzgerald. Just can't remember who posted it.

Russ Smith

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Good ones, yet both pale in comparison to trading down and not choosing Terrell Suggs.

 

[Goldfield]

Ogden, IIRC (and this might have just been Russ reporting rumors for all I know) told the Cards not to draft him; he'd never sign with us. If we were the team we are now, Simeon would have loved playing for us. I kind of feel the same way about Simeon as I do about Thomas Jones: the franchise failed both these guys.

Thomas Jones probably more so, because he was never given a chance to illustrate the player that he was, and dumb fans and coaches turned on him for worthless Marcel Shipp. But Simeon was one of the best defensive linemen in the NFL during his time here, but he never really got a chance to showcase his skills on a meaningful team because we sucked so bad. Once he moved on to Tampa Bay he was doing pre-game interviews with Michelle Tafoya.



Division Championships in 2008 and 2009, including a trip to the NFC Championship game in 2009. And he wasn't carried by a hall of fame quarterback continually being pounded into the turf.

DS, you sometimes have good stuff to add, but your crusade to prove that All Everything All Day Adrian Peterson is a lesser player than Levi Brown is absolutely silly.

Your right about Rice and Jones. The old Cards were just a bad situation for about everyone.

 

[Goldfield]

I don't see it as that bad, cause we were in the 4-3 at the time and Suggs was a tweener - I like Suggs but the Ravens gave up alot with the 2 picks, Pace was very good and BJ had great potential, He averaged 40+ catches a year as a deep as a 6'3" deep threat.

Pace-BJ-Q was a good draft, IMO
It is easy to say he would have improved Horton's 3-4 defense , but that was not the case at the time.

Bryant was a straight up bust!

I cannot believe I am saying this.... But I agree 100% Suggs would not be Suggs in a 4-3 NOT playing next to Ray Lewis.

Pace wasn't a bad pick once we moved him to LB. Johnson was not very good.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I cannot believe I am saying this.... But I agree 100% Suggs would not be Suggs in a 4-3 NOT playing next to Ray Lewis.

Pace wasn't a bad pick once we moved him to LB. Johnson was not very good.

Could not disagree more.

T-Sizzle is an absolute beast. Hand in the dirt or standing up, it doesn't matter, the guy can play & get to the quarterback.

Both Boldin & Pace are gone, dare I say Suggs would still be here cause he is "elite" talent

That was a horrible move by our front office. But aftet watching PP7 highlights today, I must say they seemed to have learned there lesson

Sent from Rugbymuffin's Super Phone

 

[Stout]

...and see, this is where everyone complains about this trade and how awful we were for doing it. I've got news for you folks, if we stayed at #6 we were drafting Johnathan Sullivan, just like New Orleans did. Complain all that you want but Suggs was not getting drafted by us at #6.

At least we would have still had our 4th round pick. What an awful, disgustingly bad trade Graves made that season. People often forget that the trade could have cost us Boldin as well. IN ADDITION to giving up a 4th round pick, we traded BACK in the 2nd round...all for the two picks in...trading back? Ugh!

 

[earthsci]

At least we would have still had our 4th round pick. What an awful, disgustingly bad trade Graves made that season. People often forget that the trade could have cost us Boldin as well. IN ADDITION to giving up a 4th round pick, we traded BACK in the 2nd round...all for the two picks in...trading back? Ugh!

On the trade value chart we lost 12 points. It wasn't that bad considering that we really wanted two first rounders over one. As little as they did for us, I'll take Johnson and Pace over the garbage that Johnathan Sullivan turned out to be any day of the week. As far as drafting Suggs goes, I wish that we had drafted him but how would his career gone playing DE in our 4-3? It wasn't until Pace started playing OLB in the 3-4 that he started looking effective. He didn't look that good as a DE on our team.

Point is, that trade didn't cost us Suggs...and no matter what could have happened it didn't cost us Boldin.

:EDIT: I'm not in favor of making any trades in the draft unless a team is willing to pay through the nose for the picks that they want. We should pick the best player at our slot and make sure our scouting is good enough to find that player.

 

[Chopper0080]

My choice would be Ogden. Elite LT's can change the complexion of a team, and they are few and far between. It's very difficult because we are a totally different organization than we were back then. I think we would have squandered Ogden like we did Rice, but oh well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There's no way. You can't split the ball in 08 between Peterson and our 3 1000 yard receivers in Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston. I don't believe that.

you're right... it could absolutely never work... totally right... there is no way the ball could never be split between that much talent and work. Just ask the 1999 or 2001 Rams which were complete and utter disaster... you know... besides being the best offenses of all time, going to two Super Bowls and winning one, QB'd by someone... who was it... I think his name was Kurt something.

come on... the above is beyond stupid.

 

[NJCardFan]

DS, think about this. If we had Peterson instead of Brown in the Super Bowl, we wouldn't have had to throw on 1st and goal from the 2 yard line which led to the longest play in SB history. But we can kick ourselves over draft picks until doomsday the truth is, there's a reason why things work out the way they do, for instance:

Say we draft Cutler instead of Leinart, chances are we don't have the failure of Matty L and Warner never becomes the starter we ended up loving. Although, to this day I'd still rather have had Urlacher than Jones.

 

[Garthshort]

In most draft's when you have a great OT and a great OLB/DE, the pass rusher gets selected first. What I didn't understand is Jeff's post, quoting the late George Young. How did the Mr. B's quote concerning Ogden's secondary education indicate that the Cards wouldn't draft him? Please explain. Thanks.

 

[Pariah]

Rice was a premier pass rusher in the league.

Levi is not a premier anything.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

...and see, this is where everyone complains about this trade and how awful we were for doing it. I've got news for you folks, if we stayed at #6 we were drafting Johnathan Sullivan, just like New Orleans did. Complain all that you want but Suggs was not getting drafted by us at #6.

will do.

So you are saying the that the Cardinals were so awful at drafting at that point and time, they would have screwed up that easy as pie draft selection no matter what. Whew boy! I feel much better.

 

[CardLogic]

The decision to not draft Ogden (according to the late George Young) had more to do with Mr. B's biased impression of Jonathon's high school program (As Young explained it, the two of them were sitting around making small-talk prior to that year's draft, and Young - always looking for an info edge - brought up Ogden's name. Mr. B said something about "Didn't he go to St. John's Academy (or whatever the name of the school was)? "When Mr. B brought that up", according to George, "I knew he was going to pick Rice over Ogden.")

Wow! This certainly gives some insight as to how the club was run under "Bowtie". To think, that Bidwill would make a decision regarding a first round draft pick selection based upon where a player went to high school, simply astounds me!

What I didn't understand is Jeff's post, quoting the late George Young. How did the Mr. B's quote concerning Ogden's secondary education indicate that the Cards wouldn't draft him? Please explain. Thanks.

Bidwill's reasoning is not explained in the post by Jeff; but it is attested to by George Young, a man that worked next to Bill Bidwill for many years, and hence; one would think; understood Bidwill's statement and the intention behind it.

Again, this little story illustrates how absurd the Cardinals decision making process was with Bill Bidwill in charge. I respect Bill Bidwill as a human being and think he is a gracious and generous man, but as a NFL executive...

 

[CardLogic]

...and see, this is where everyone complains about this trade and how awful we were for doing it. I've got news for you folks, if we stayed at #6 we were drafting Johnathan Sullivan, just like New Orleans did. Complain all that you want but Suggs was not getting drafted by us at #6.

I am glad someone said this. Looking at past drafts and saying what should have been done is an exercise in futility.

On the trade value chart we lost 12 points. It wasn't that bad considering that we really wanted two first rounders over one. As little as they did for us, I'll take Johnson and Pace over the garbage that Johnathan Sullivan turned out to be any day of the week. As far as drafting Suggs goes, I wish that we had drafted him but how would his career gone playing DE in our 4-3? It wasn't until Pace started playing OLB in the 3-4 that he started looking effective. He didn't look that good as a DE on our team.

Point is, that trade didn't cost us Suggs...and no matter what could have happened it didn't cost us Boldin.

:EDIT: I'm not in favor of making any trades in the draft unless a team is willing to pay through the nose for the picks that they want. We should pick the best player at our slot and make sure our scouting is good enough to find that player.

Great points earthsci, usually overlooked in these "what they should've done" conversations.

 

[cardpa]

I don't think AP would have had the impact here that he has had in Minn. My take on that is because I don't think Whiz would have used him in nearly the same way they have in Minny. I suspect AP would have only half the carries here as he has gotten in Minn.

Not to say AP isn't a great RB however he needs to have the ball in his hands to do something. I don't think that would have happened here. I suspect he could have ended up in Whiz's doghouse and we all know how long it takes to get out of it. We would have still seen THT toting the ball instead of AP.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't think AP would have had the impact here that he has had in Minn. My take on that is because I don't think Whiz would have used him in nearly the same way they have in Minny. I suspect AP would have only half the carries here as he has gotten in Minn.

Not to say AP isn't a great RB however he needs to have the ball in his hands to do something. I don't think that would have happened here. I suspect he could have ended up in Whiz's doghouse and we all know how long it takes to get out of it. We would have still seen THT toting the ball instead of AP.

In 2007 Edge had the 2nd most rushing attempts in the entire league. With how well AP carries the ball he would have gotten playing time. We are not talking about the mediocre players who revolve in and out of his dog house, AP is a hall of fame player. No matter what anyone thinks of Whiz I doubt he is dumb enough to not notice the talent.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't think AP would have had the impact here that he has had in Minn. My take on that is because I don't think Whiz would have used him in nearly the same way they have in Minny. I suspect AP would have only half the carries here as he has gotten in Minn.

Not to say AP isn't a great RB however he needs to have the ball in his hands to do something. I don't think that would have happened here. I suspect he could have ended up in Whiz's doghouse and we all know how long it takes to get out of it. We would have still seen THT toting the ball instead of AP.

Could be but then Edge had over 300 carries averaging 20 a game in 2007. Almost a 100 more carries than AP had in '07 in Minnesota. I think Edge just got old and with TH unable to carry the load CKW had to resort to the pass even more.

I don't believe that AP would have averaged 2.5 ypc or less like Hightower did 9 times in 2008.

Peterson is also a decent receiver. Averaging 9.6 yards per catch for his career and had over 30 receptions in both 2009 and 2010. Which would have made him more useful than Beanie who has less than 30 receptions for his career.

You do have a valid point about AP getting in CKW's doghouse. Whisenhunt doesn't like to start rookies so we have to wonder what would have happened with AP if he's sitting on the bench for several games behind Edge in 2007.

 

[Duckjake]

In 2007 Edge had the 2nd most rushing attempts in the entire league. With how well AP carries the ball he would have gotten playing time. We are not talking about the mediocre players who revolve in and out of his dog house, AP is a hall of fame player. No matter what anyone thinks of Whiz I doubt he is dumb enough to not notice the talent.

This is the 2nd time in just the last few days we've posted basically the same thought in a response within minutes of each other.

 

[Stout]

On the trade value chart we lost 12 points. It wasn't that bad considering that we really wanted two first rounders over one. As little as they did for us, I'll take Johnson and Pace over the garbage that Johnathan Sullivan turned out to be any day of the week. As far as drafting Suggs goes, I wish that we had drafted him but how would his career gone playing DE in our 4-3? It wasn't until Pace started playing OLB in the 3-4 that he started looking effective. He didn't look that good as a DE on our team.

Point is, that trade didn't cost us Suggs...and no matter what could have happened it didn't cost us Boldin.

:EDIT: I'm not in favor of making any trades in the draft unless a team is willing to pay through the nose for the picks that they want. We should pick the best player at our slot and make sure our scouting is good enough to find that player.

And I will continue to say it was a stupid trade because it was...a stupid trade! You're seriously not defending this travesty of a trade, are you? Sure, we would have had one lousy player instead of two, but who knows who we draft in the 4th? Even considering who we would have taken, we'd have had a shot at more.

Bottom line: Stupid, stupid trade. Care to outright disagree?