Which positions would you rank the Cardinals as top ten in the league?

[Wild Card]

Okay name the teams with better DEs then the Cards.

Worse: MIN, SEA, SF, STL, DET, KC
Better: MIA, BAL,

Having one stud makes up for having a non-stud on the other side.

VikesFan:

O.K., I'll take a shot. In alpha order by conference, as follows:

AFC
Houston Texans--Gary Walker, Robaire Smith
Indianapolis Colts--Dwight Freeney (2004 Pro Bowler), Raheem Brock
Miami Dolphins--Adewale Ogunleye ('04 PB), Jason Taylor
New England Patriots--Richard Seymour, Ty Warren
New York Jets--Shaun Ellis ('04 PB), John Abraham
Pittsburgh Steelers--Aaron Smith, Kimo von Oelhoffen

NFC
Atlanta Falcons--Patrick Kerney, Brady Smith
Carolina Panthers--Mike Rucker, Julius Peppers
Dallas Cowboys--Greg Ellis, Marcellus Wiley
New Orleans Saints--Darren Howard, Charles Grant
New York Giants--Michael Strahan ('04 PB), Osi Umenyiora
Seattle Seahawks--Grant Wistrom, Chike Okeafor
Tampa Bay Buccaneers--Simeon Rice ('04 PB), Greg Spires

That's thirteen teams. (And I didn't even include the Baltimore Ravens, who I wouldn't list among the league's elite teams at DE.) Tell me which four you'd take away to make room for the Cards, even assuming that Bert Berry and an LDE-to-be-named-later merit consideration as the 10th-best tandem in the NFL.

WC

 

[joeshmo]

Okay name the teams with better DEs then the Cards.

Worse: MIN, SEA, SF, STL, DET, KC

Better: MIA, BAL,

Having one stud makes up for having a non-stud on the other side.

First of all it isnt all about sacks, there is a such thing as run D as well. Of which the other starting DE on this team, whom ever it may be, does neither, and Berry isnt known for his run D as well.

Off of the top of my head, there are others but I didnt want to make you feel bad.

Buf
Mia
NE
NYJ
Bal
Tex
Philly
CAR
NO
TB

"Having one stud makes up for having a non-stud on the other side."

This makes so little sense I will not even go into it, you will never understand, since you seem to be wearing your green colored glasses right now.

You put a check on ever single position didnt you?

 

[Ryanwb]

Okay name the teams with better DEs then the Cards.

Worse: MIN, SEA, SF, STL, DET, KC

Better: MIA, BAL,


Having one stud makes up for having a non-stud on the other side.

Better: Tampa, Miami, NY Jets, NY Giants, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, Baltimore, New England, Carolina, Washington

 

[vince56]

BTW I watched alphabet soup playing FB for Baltimore the other night on NFL replay. He looked pretty good and even caught a TD pass. He may give Hodgins a run for his money at FB this year.

 

[Skkorpion]

Three Cards players, if released today, would generate a free agent feeding frenzy. Dexter Jackson. Quan, and LJ Shelton.

Shelton would get the most action.

 

[Wild Card]

the WRs thing is funniest to me. Okay - we all know we WANT to have a position that's in the top ten - but that doesn't mean there is one.

Cheesy:

And it just keeps getting funnier. Even assuming that Larry Fitzgerald is all that--and first-round WRs are every bit the crapshoot that QBs are--and/or Bryant Johnson starts looking like a #1 choice in his second year, you can still make a case for ten better starting tandems than Anquan Boldin and Fitzgerald/Johnson.

Yeah, Boldin is already one of the top receivers in the game. But it's premature to anoint either Fitzgerald or Johnson as being in the same class.

WC

 

[BigRedMO]

I am sorry to say I believe none of the above is the best answer.

I am surprised to see no one pick ownership, lol.

 

[vikesfan]

Just having Boldin on the team makes the team ahead of many other teams WR wise. Look at BAL look at CLE etc...

 

[vikesfan]

VikesFan:

O.K., I'll take a shot. In alpha order by conference, as follows:

AFC
Houston Texans--Gary Walker, Robaire Smith THAT DUDE IS A DT
Indianapolis Colts--Dwight Freeney (2004 Pro Bowler), Raheem Brock
Miami Dolphins--Adewale Ogunleye ('04 PB), Jason Taylor
New England Patriots--Richard Seymour, Ty Warren
New York Jets--Shaun Ellis ('04 PB), John Abraham
Pittsburgh Steelers--Aaron Smith, Kimo von Oelhoffen

NFC
Atlanta Falcons--Patrick Kerney, Brady Smith
Carolina Panthers--Mike Rucker, Julius Peppers
Dallas Cowboys--Greg Ellis, Marcellus Wiley CARDS ARE BETTER
New Orleans Saints--Darren Howard, Charles Grant
New York Giants--Michael Strahan ('04 PB), Osi Umenyiora
Seattle Seahawks--Grant Wistrom, Chike Okeafor CARDS ARE BETTER
Tampa Bay Buccaneers--Simeon Rice ('04 PB), Greg Spires

That's thirteen teams. (And I didn't even include the Baltimore Ravens, who I wouldn't list among the league's elite teams at DE.) Tell me which four you'd take away to make room for the Cards, even assuming that Bert Berry and an LDE-to-be-named-later merit consideration as the 10th-best tandem in the NFL.

WC

.

 

[Wild Card]

VikesFan:

The assumption is that DT Robaire Smith will start at RDE with the Houston Texans. Carlton Thompson's comments in the 5/17/04 issue of The Sorting News might be instructive:

"In the Texans' 3-4 scheme, ends really are tackles. They play on the end of the line on running downs but move inside on passing downs; the outside linebackers drop into a three-point stance and become ends... Smith might need time to adjust to a new defense... but the Texans believe he is in his prime and that he still has an upside."

I'll grant you that comparing 4-3 and 3-4 defensive ends is sorta apples-and-oranges. But making a case for the Cardinals' starting DEs belonging among the league's best tandems is an uphill battle. As local guy Kent Somers wrote in the same issue of TSN, when awarding the Cards' ends a position grade of "C-":

"Free agent Bert Berry had 11-1/2 sacks last season; his leadership will help enormously with a young group. He'll start on the right side ahead of Calvin Pace, a first-round pick last year who started but looked bewildered much of the time. The left spot is open. Kyle Vanden Bosch could jump in, but he's coming off his second knee injury in three years. Fred Wakefield was the team's best defensive lineman at the end of last season. Dennis Johnson has yet to prove himself despite playing a lot last year. Rookie Antonio Smith is a project."

Better than Greg Ellis and Marcellus Wiley? Better than Grant Wistrom and Chike Okeafor? Top 10? You gotta be kidding.

WC

 

[Wildman©]

IMO most of our OLBs are the WLB type. Sheer numbers at that position dictated that I vote for WLB.

 

[azdad1978]

I am surprised to see no one pick ownership, lol.

lol in the past I would have benn laughing so hard but with the recent movements of the ownership we are heading in the right direction.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Three Cards players, if released today, would generate a free agent feeding frenzy. Dexter Jackson. Quan, and LJ Shelton.

Shelton would get the most action.

Shelton hasn't been that great. I think Quan would get the most action. Shelton hasn't been to any probowls and doesn't deserve to. Quan is just starting to go to them.

 

[Wild Card]

Three Cards players, if released today, would generate a free agent feeding frenzy. Dexter Jackson. Quan, and LJ Shelton.

Shelton would get the most action.

Skkorp:

Absolutely true. And I would've voted for all three as among the league's top 10, as individual players and positions (e.g., Shelton at OLT). I did vote for Jackson, at FS.

The problem with this poll was that, in voting for starting OTs or WRs as a group, a vote for Shelton was a vote for Anthony Clement. And a vote for Boldin was a vote for Larry Fitzgerald, an untried rookie, or Bryant Johnson, last year's first-round disappointment. (Or, according to the current depth chart on NFL.com, Bryan Gilmore, about whom the less said the better.)

WC

 

[Duckjake]

I voted for everybody based on where they are going to be at the end of 2004. After all as NFC West Champions they should qualify as top 10 at their positions.

 

[BigRedMO]

AZ Dad I need to see results before I revise my opinion of Bidwill. I have seen too many coaches trotted in with excellent resumes as the next savior.

 

[Pariah]

Okay name the teams with better DEs then the Cards.

Worse: MIN, SEA, SF, STL, DET, KC

Better: MIA, BAL,


Having one stud makes up for having a non-stud on the other side.

...

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Surprised how little votes L Davis has recieved he is like in 5th or 6th place on the team right now in votes. If most major magazines were to select which players are in the top 10 on the Cards I would believe L Davis would be the only player selected by any of them, just think thats interesting how low Davis is going.

 

[vikesfan]

Shelton hasn't been that great. I think Quan would get the most action. Shelton hasn't been to any probowls and doesn't deserve to. Quan is just starting to go to them.

Finally someone is critical of Shelton. There are very few consensus players on this team.

 

[vince56]

Surprised how little votes L Davis has recieved he is like in 5th or 6th place on the team right now in votes. If most major magazines were to select which players are in the top 10 on the Cards I would believe L Davis would be the only player selected by any of them, just think thats interesting how low Davis is going.

Garbage argument. Reputation alone doesn't make you a good player. Let's see him dominate before we anoint him.

 

[vikesfan]

The problem with this poll is grouping players, so does 1 great player make up for the non-great players. This is the one player theory.

Look at the Vikes WRs how would you rate them? Moss is a probowl WR but the other WRs the Vikes have had have sucked beyond belief! So how do you rate the Vikes WRs? Would you rate them low cause of the other guy or guys or does the presence of one great WR like Moss make up for it.

You can vote either way. But with only 1 great WR the Vikes were top 5 in offense and number 1 in offense the last 2 years.

 

[joeshmo]

So does 1 great player make up for the non-great players.

No

 

[MadCardDisease]

Cheesy:

And it just keeps getting funnier. Even assuming that Larry Fitzgerald is all that--and first-round WRs are every bit the crapshoot that QBs are--and/or Bryant Johnson starts looking like a #1 choice in his second year, you can still make a case for ten better starting tandems than Anquan Boldin and Fitzgerald/Johnson.

Yeah, Boldin is already one of the top receivers in the game. But it's premature to anoint either Fitzgerald or Johnson as being in the same class.

WC

How many teams had a WR in the Pro-Bowl last year?

Add 2 more first round WR's into the mix. Both of whom will only get better every time they hit the field.

Toss in a solid TE in Jones.

Add a coach that likes to throw the ball.

Now why can't our WRs be in the top 10? I don't think it's that far fetched.

Here are the teams that I think have a better WR core than the Cardinals:

Rams (Holt, Bruce)
Bengals (Johnson, Warrick)
Steelers (Ward, Burress)
Colts (Harrison, Wayne)
Seahawks (Robinson, Jackson)
Vikings (Moss, Kelly)
Dolphins (Boston, Chambers)

I think the rest are in the Cardinals league. It's not that far fetched! Please show me all these other better starting tandems?

 

[kerouac9]

I think the rest are in the Cardinals league. It's not that far fetched! Please show me all these other better starting tandems?

Tampa: Keenan McCardell, Joey Galloway, Joe Jerevicious
Dallas: Antonio Bryant, Keyshawn Johnson, Terry Glenn
Green Bay: Donald Driver, Jason Ferguson, Javon Walker
Washington: Lavernus Coles, Rod Gardner, James Thrash/Darrien McCants/Taylor Jacobs

Those four plus your six put the Cards on the outside. I might also argue that New Orleans, Carolina, Buffalo, Oakland, heck, even Detroit have WR corps rivalling the Cardinals'.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Tampa: Keenan McCardell, Joey Galloway, Joe Jerevicious
Dallas: Antonio Bryant, Keyshawn Johnson, Terry Glenn
Green Bay: Donald Driver, Jason Ferguson, Javon Walker
Washington: Lavernus Coles, Rod Gardner, James Thrash/Darrien McCants/Taylor Jacobs

Those four plus your six put the Cards on the outside. I might also argue that New Orleans, Carolina, Buffalo, Oakland, heck, even Detroit have WR corps rivalling the Cardinals'.

I forgot that Tampa landed Galloway and I do like them better now.

You could combine Driver's, and Ferguson's yards and you still wouldn't beat Boldins. I would take the Cardinal WR's over them in a heart beat.

I don't believe that Dallas is better than us. Johnson and Glenn are far into their declining years.

It's still not out of the question that the Cardinals very well could contend for a top ten WR corp.

Here is a list of the top WR's in the league.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=rec&sort=yds&pos=off&league=nfl&order=true&season=2&year=2003