Whisenhunt and His Knuckleheads

[THESMEL]

Bucky

I like Whiz and supported Graves new contract also, I praised Bidwill when he committed to both for 5 years and gave Whiz personelle superpowers.
I am guilty as a fan, I wanted them to do well.

But i would love to see the Niners, Rams and Seahawks destroy their window of oppurtunity like The Cardinals just did. and it makes me sick as a fan, cause damn it card fan's have had more hell than any other fans since 1898. Whiz chose this! Nobody else is to blame. Period.

If we would have failed with The Bean, Fitz and Leinart as an offensive core I would have let Matty go without question for the 16 million restructured contract price last year, But Whiz changed course and Shattered Card fan's window of playoff oppurtunity.

That still sucks. and please point to something real not imagined that shows we have turned the corner on the rebuilding of OUR NFCW CHAMPIONS.

Themsel, you can critique Wiz & RG all you want & some of it deserved. You also have to give them credit for taking the Arizona freaking Cardinals to the SB & also quickly rebuilding what they tore down. It still isn't all on them IMO on whose walked away in FA.

Bill Bellicheat looked pretty dumb coaching in cleveland too, I wonder if they would want him back?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I am not saying DA was only horrible in the preseason, the guy is and was a flat out awful QB who never should have had a roster spot. He was so bad during the preseason that before he got promoted I thought he deserved to be waived. DA's problems have nothing to do with what string he is playing with, he holds onto the ball waaaaaaaay too long and when he does release it he has no touch and no accuracy.

As I said before, my biggest beef with the entire situation was that Derek Anderson was the guy who they sacked Leinart for. The only possible result for a team with Anderson as their starter was a total disaster.

I am not exaggerating in my beef with picking Anderson. He is literally the worst statistical QB of the last 20 years among players who played more than 1 full season.

This argument was old two years ago, but I can't help but get involved because you couldn't be more wrong. First of all, DA has actually been a pro bowler, which is a hell of a lot more than Leinart has ever done.

Further, watching the scrimmage (which you didn't) and the rest of the preseason games (which you apparently didn't), at least Anderson got a couple first downs.

Leinart was and is garbage until he proves otherwise. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Buckybird]

I like Whiz and supported Graves new contract also, I praised Bidwill when he committed to both for 5 years and gave Whiz personelle superpowers.
I am guilty as a fan, I wanted them to do well.

But i would love to see the Niners, Rams and Seahawks destroy their window of oppurtunity like The Cardinals just did. and it makes me sick as a fan, cause damn it card fan's have had more hell than any other fans since 1898. Whiz chose this! Nobody else is to blame. Period.

If we would have failed with The Bean, Fitz and Leinart as an offensive core I would have let Matty go without question for the 16 million restructured contract price last year, But Whiz changed course and Shattered Card fan's window of playoff oppurtunity.

That still sucks. and please point to something real not imagined that shows we have turned the corner on the rebuilding of OUR NFCW CHAMPIONS.

To my knowledge I have yet to see you say 1 positive thing about Wiz. Nearly every post you have contains you bad mouthing him about his use of Leinart, Beanie or Levi! Tell me I'm wrong & that's being supportive of our HC?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

This argument was old two years ago, but I can't help but get involved because you couldn't be more wrong. First of all, DA has actually been a pro bowler, which is a hell of a lot more than Leinart has ever done.

Further, watching the scrimmage (which you didn't) and the rest of the preseason games (which you apparently didn't), at least Anderson got a couple first downs. Leinart was and is garbage until he proves otherwise. I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah, by going on 4th down, which was never available to Leinart. That's when I strongly suspected the Whiz wanted number 7 out the door.

 

[AzStevenCal]

To my knowledge I have yet to see you say 1 positive thing about Wiz. Nearly every post you have contains you bad mouthing him about his use of Leinart, Beanie or Levi! Tell me I'm wrong & that's being supportive of our HC?

Have you noticed that in just about every Wiz bashing post he also adds how much he likes the lying, cowardly, manipulating jerk?

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Yeah, by going on 4th down, which was never available to Leinart. That's when I strongly suspected the Whiz wanted number 7 out the door.

Yep, it was a huge conspiracy theory because Whiz hated Leinart.

Leinart was and is garbage until he proves otherwise.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Yep, it was a huge conspiracy theory because Whiz hated Leinart.

Leinart was and is garbage until he proves otherwise.

I'm not into conspiracy theories. Just pointed to a few facts, and based on these wasn't surprised by how it ended. Fact, I remember a third and about a half yard, when Leinart was in, where Whiz decided to punt.

I'm not a great defender of Matt, but would have preferred a 5/6 win season with him at the helm so that we could all have certainty on this issue.

 

[Pariah]

Leinart was and is garbage until he proves otherwise.

Actually, he has proven otherwise. He didn't live up to his draft status, but he also played like an NFL quarterback most of the time.

Look, maybe he didn't have the faith of the team and he needed to go eventually, but I don't see how anyone can say that releasing him when we did--with what we had behind him--was a good move.

 

[Pariah]

Fact, I remember a third and about a half yard, when Leinart was in, where Whiz decided to punt.

I actually don't think that's a fact. I don't remember anything of the sort--in fact, it's patently ridiculous.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I actually don't think that's a fact. I don't remember anything of the sort--in fact, it's patently ridiculous.

That your memory fails is your issue, not mine, but you have my sympathy.

I know its ridiculous and that's why I remember it. Leinart was not allowed to go on fourth once in that preseason; Anderson a number of times.

 

[Pariah]

Fact, I remember a third and about a half yard, when Leinart was in, where Whiz decided to punt.

Leinart was not allowed to go on fourth once in that preseason; Anderson a number of times.

Was it a third or fourth down?

I think it's ridiculous to claim that Whiz punted on third down--he didn't.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Actually, he has proven otherwise. He didn't live up to his draft status, but he also played like an NFL quarterback most of the time.

He had a couple good games in his rookie year, and has been pretty awful since Will Witherspoon planted him in St. Louis. Do you not remember 3 years ago the games in Chicago and Tennessee?

Nothing he's done in the last three years would give credence to the idea that he's an NFL starting qb. Hell, he had the option this offseason to compete against weak options in several cities and chose to be captain clipboard.

On top of that he's fragile and has a weak collarbone. What about this picture looks like an NFL qb to you? Maybe a 2nd or 3rd stringer, but he isn't an NFL starter.

Look, maybe he didn't have the faith of the team and he needed to go eventually, but I don't see how anyone can say that releasing him when we did--with what we had behind him--was a good move.

While DA was awful, it's not like Leinart was any better. Further, it was obvious to anyone who follows the team closely that he had lost the locker room, and it's quite clear that he can't stay healthy.

Considering the hellacious shots DA was taking 2 years ago, Leinart would have been lucky to have survived 6 weeks.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Was it a third or fourth down?

I think it's ridiculous to claim that Whiz punted on third down--he didn't.

Correction. I meant that after 3rd down we had about half yard to go and didn't go with Leinart at QB. We went on two or three 4th and short with Anderson.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

He had a couple good games in his rookie year, and has been pretty awful since Will Witherspoon planted him in St. Louis. Do you not remember 3 years ago the games in Chicago and Tennessee?

Nothing he's done in the last three years would give credence to the idea that he's an NFL starting qb. Hell, he had the option this offseason to compete against weak options in several cities and chose to be captain clipboard.

On top of that he's fragile and has a weak collarbone. What about this picture looks like an NFL qb to you? Maybe a 2nd or 3rd stringer, but he isn't an NFL starter.




While DA was awful, it's not like Leinart was any better. Further, it was obvious to anyone who follows the team closely that he had lost the locker room, and it's quite clear that he can't stay healthy.

Considering the hellacious shots DA was taking 2 years ago, Leinart would have been lucky to have survived 6 weeks.

Here are the Stats from the 2010 preseason:

www.azcardinals.com/gameday/statistics.html

 

[Pariah]

On top of that he's fragile and has a weak collarbone.

Fragility is his biggest problem--and you're right, he wasn't the same after he hurt his collarbone the first time. That said, are you kidding me when you say Leinart wasn't any better than DA? That's just silly.

Again, I'm not saying Leinart is a top QB. I think he'd likely be one of the poorest starters in the NFL because of his seeming inability to make big plays with any kind of consistency. But aside from being fragile (which a lot of players deal with and some even "grow" out of), he's proven he's not "garbage." Hell, even if you think he's just backup material, it doesn't mean he doesn't belong in the NFL.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

are you kidding me when you say Leinart wasn't any better than DA? That's just silly.

Absolutely not. What about that is silly? Again, having been to the actual scrimmage and watching every preseason game, Leinart didn't move the team at all. People can make a million different excuses as to why that wasn't his fault, but the results were clear.


DA's top season is far better than anything ML has produced, and he can actually stay on the field, which is kind of a big deal. At this point, both are career backups at best. Quibbling over who is the better backup is splitting hairs.

Again, I'm not saying Leinart is a top QB. I think he'd likely be one of the poorest starters in the NFL because of his seeming inability to make big plays with any kind of consistency. But aside from being fragile (which a lot of players deal with and some even "grow" out of), he's proven he's not "garbage." Hell, even if you think he's just backup material, it doesn't mean he doesn't belong in the NFL.

I'd love to know of examples of people "growing out" of being fragile. Not challenging you or anything, but I'd be interested to see examples. Hell Leinart couldn't even get through a full game before getting injured again.

"Garbage" may not be a kind word, but considering his draft position and his production, I think it's applicable. At the least, I would say irrelevant is a fair description for his career so far. He's proven to be not only weak physically, but also mentally as well, and his performance so far shows nothing that makes you think he's an NFL starter. The amount of attention and reverence he gets from some around here is quite bizarre. I can't imagine any other backup getting this kind of attention.

 

[Duckjake]

I can't imagine any other backup getting this kind of attention.

Kevin Kolb for one.

That collarbone injury must have had an extremely adverse affect on Leinart.

Here's a guy who threw for 365 yards on the biggest stage in college football facing a Texas secondary that featured 5 guys who were starters in the NFL last season, 3 of them first round selections. (Michael Huff,Aaron Ross,Michael Griffin,Cedric Griffin and Tarrell Brown). Then set the NFL rookie record for most passing yards in a game. And then just went to nothing.

 

[Buckybird]

Have you noticed that in just about every Wiz bashing post he also adds how much he likes the lying, cowardly, manipulating jerk?

Steve

Really? I hope you're joking Steve, because thats not the truth.

 

[Pariah]

Chris, I'm not goign to rehash the the Leinart argument again, but Anderson's "best season" was one and done and even Cleveland realized that.

As for an example of someone who was labeled "fragile" early in his career and then was late in his career, how about "Fragile" Freddy Taylor?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Really? I hope you're joking Steve, because thats not the truth.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. My point was that you were discussing Whiz with a poster who routinely calls him a liar, a coward and a manipulative jerk and yet still claims to like the guy. I just think it's hard to grant credibility to someone who frequently bashes the coach on a personal and a professional level and then professes to like the guy.

Steve

 

[Buckybird]

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. My point was that you were discussing Whiz with a poster who routinely calls him a liar, a coward and a manipulative jerk and yet still claims to like the guy. I just think it's hard to grant credibility to someone who frequently bashes the coach on a personal and a professional level and then professes to like the guy.

Steve

Ok I misunderstood.


Dont forget idiot, stupid, cut throat, Whisenstupid & calling him the "WTF factor"...all in just this thread. If he likes Wiz, he could've fooled me & I can only imagine what he's thinking of me

 

[cardsfanmd]

I'd love to know of examples of people "growing out" of being fragile. Not challenging you or anything, but I'd be interested to see examples.

Aaron Rodgers

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Aaron Rodgers

The same Aaron Rodgers that has played 62 out of 64 starts? At least Fred Taylor is a legit example, although for every FT, you can name 100 guys who didn't get over the injury issues. ML couldn't even make it through ONE game this year.

In any event, ML talk is beyond boring.

 

[Phrazbit]

This argument was old two years ago, but I can't help but get involved because you couldn't be more wrong. First of all, DA has actually been a pro bowler, which is a hell of a lot more than Leinart has ever done.

Further, watching the scrimmage (which you didn't) and the rest of the preseason games (which you apparently didn't), at least Anderson got a couple first downs.

Leinart was and is garbage until he proves otherwise. I'm not holding my breath.

I am not claiming Leinart was talented, but Anderson is abhorrent, he never should have been put on the roster in the 1st place and he is much much worse than Leinart.

Anderson sucked in the preseason, he sucked in the regular season, he sucked his entire career, he even sucked in college, and I dont give a crap that he got into the probowl as a 3rd alternate during a season where he was among the leagues worst in completion % and interceptions.

Check out Anderson's NFL ranks among active players.

Dead last in passer rating

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_active.htm

5th to last in YP/A

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_per_att_active.htm

Last by a wide margin in completion %

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_active.htm

4th worst interception rate

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_int_perc_active.htm

And its worth noting that in the 2 seasons before he was a Cardinal, Anderson had completed less than 50% of his pass attempts.

Anderson is complete trash. I dont care what Leinart was doing in preseason, turning the reigns over to Anderson was a shockingly stupid move with no possible result other than disaster.

 

[THESMEL]

I say what i mean

I can like Whiz and not like his behavior, So you think signing Faneca and Porter, Mcadden was Whisensmart? What the Hell factor He is! hands down! and Whiz is proud of it!

Players leave him without loyalty.
I don't consider him a good playcaller since he left Cowers coat tails.
I don't consider Whiz good at putting together a compenent staff.
I Don't see him as a personell man for any winning team in the NFL?
He kisses frogs and they remain frogs- Name the Players He has developed? Now named the players he has destroyed.
He turned top HOF RB Edge into a piece of crap
and the same for former HC prospect Russ Grimm.
Whiz's one staff win was Haley for a year! OOOPS.

What the hell do you grade Ken Whisenhunt great at? Good at? competent at? I know i'm an SOB by most opinions, My grades suck - My system sucks Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Do you think the Cards - Kolb - are on the right track ?

Ok I misunderstood.


Dont forget idiot, stupid, cut throat, Whisenstupid & calling him the "WTF factor"...all in just this thread. If he likes Wiz, he could've fooled me & I can only imagine what he's thinking of me