Whisenhunt

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
When Whisenhunt arrived as the new head coach in Arizona he avowed to deliver a "smart, tough and disciplined" brand of football.

What first impressed me about him was:

(1) his philosophy of creating competition at every position.

(2) his propensity to pull off the unexpected---such as try an on-side kick---which led me to believe that he understood how important seizing momentum is in a football game.

(3) pushing and challenging the star players like Larry Fitzgerald to take their games to a higher level.

(4) calling for a Christmas Day practice on the eve of the playoffs an in reaction to the New England debacle.

What I didn't understand about him was:

(5) how and why he felt the need to appoint Matt Leinart as the team's starting QB, in contrast to his competition at every position philosophy...when in fact, it was always a QB competition for Leinart.

(6) why it was taking so long to get Leinart comfortable in the offense to the point where he couldn't run a 2 minute drill.

(7) why he insisted on playing his mediocre at best offensive tackles on an island versus the best DEs---even after the tackles were being dominated to the point of costing the team a chance to win.

(8) why he kept and still keeps ignoring the needs of the defense.

(9) why his press conferences always left me feeling uninspired and even more frustrated that I was prior to watching.

Now that Whisenhunt is in his fifth year---here's what I have come to expect from Whisenhunt with regard to the aforementioned impressions and questions:

(1) Competitions for starting positions no longer exist---where once Whisenhunt would have the guts to bench Edgerrin James for rookie Tim Hightower---in the midst of this current 4 game slide, Whisenhunt tipped his hand once again for no changes by saying that "It's hard to make changes in season."

(2) No strategy Whisenunt musters up seems unexpected anymore and hasn't for a couple of years. It was no surprise to hear Vikings' CB Chris Cook say that they knew exactly what the Cardinals' plays would be---we watch these same plays and tendencies every week and it sure looks like a broken record, doesn't it? Do you ever get the sense that the Cardinals have conjured up a plan to attack the other team where it is most vulnerable? No---they just do their own dink and dunk thing and hope that the other team hasn't figured it out. As Whisenhunt said this week: "We are sticking with what we know works."

(3) Are any of the team's star players being pushed to perform at higher levels the way they were when Todd Haley was here? If anything the majority of the Cardinals' start players have regressed---including Fitzgerald, QB woes aside.

(4) If anything Whisenhunt is softer, not tougher on the team---nothing like that Christmas practice. To me it is still a total head scratcher that last year heading into the bye week with a UCFA rookie QB now going into his second NFL start that Whisenhunt bargained with the players to give them the whole week off if they beat the Saints. The Cardinals were 3-2 at the bye---good for 1st place in the NFC West---they came back from the bye to lose 7 straight (4 of which were at home).

(5) The Leinart charade remains one of the most disconcerting aspects of Whisenhunt's tenure here. Now--mind you---I never thought Leinart was a fit for Whisenhunt---but to appoint Leinart the starter in 3 of Whisenhunt's first 4 seasons and then throw him to the curb last year on the eve of the season was reckless (and seemed personal more than anything else)---especially in light of how vulnerable it left the team. It also did not speak well to how Whisenhunt handles his personnel---there is a strange distance he keeps---and put it this way, if he couldn't get along with Anquan Boldin, I mean, what does that say about Whisenhunt as a coach, let alone as a motivator of men?

Does Whisenhunt do anything for players' confidence or egos? I mean, anything? He even teetered on the edge of messing up the Warner situation---but, thank goodness, Warner didn't need Whisenhunt's vote of confidence because Warner believed so much in himself.

When Toto pulled open the screen---it was Kurt Warner standing at the controls, not Whisenhunt, wasn't it?

(6) Taking long for Leinart to feel comfortable---how about Kevin Kolb? He looks less comfortable and confident with each passing week. And, while we are at it, how come Stewart Bradley and O'Brien Schofield are so lost and uninspired? That falls on the head coach as well.

(7) In Whisehunt's first year we saw Seattle's DE John Kearney dominate an entire game for an easy Seattle win---and yet not even a half-time adjustment---no chips, no nothing. This past week we saw Jared Allen dominate the game for an easy Vikings' win---same story, different game. Nothing has changed----and every QB who has played for Whisenhunt in his 5 years here has taken a total beating---much of which could have been avoided....and who knows how many losses might have been wins. This past Monday night the Lions ran a two TE in slot formation to chip the DEs and thus to offer max protection on the deep TD pass to Calvin Johnson---think we would ever see that from a Whisenhunt coached offense?

(8) Ignoring the needs of the defense---when you don't have any edge pass rushers on the roster---and you draft a CB (who allowed for the QB trade involving the trade another 1st round CB---so this move catered to the offense as well), a RB (after drafting a first rounder two years previously), and a situational TE---with your first three picks in the draft, what does this say about the coach's priorities?

How about EVER calling a timeout for the defense? if ever the Cardinals needed one it was in the Giants' game when the Giants were suddenly reeling off 20 yard passes left and right. The worst part other than it being so incredibly easy for them was that no time was running off the clock, which was especially auspicious for a team that needed TWO scores to at least tie or go ahead.

What's completely clear at this point is that Whisenhunt has no perceivable understanding of momentum---and what it takes to get it---and especially what it takes to sustain it. Timeouts---are a coach's best friend for trying to change momentum and should be used accordingly.

As for the two minutes before each half---Whisenhunt is about as poor a game manager as there is and has proven it time and time again.

(9) Whiz's press conferences? First of all you can't believe a word he says. In a game where his team was egregiously out hustled, out-toughed and out-coached by an 0-4 team, his response is, "We are not making plays." LOFL, really.

Secondly---the man has zero charisma---to the point where it is even hard to grow a liking for the man---he's just so vanilla, so disingenuous, so boringly predictable. if fans find him boring, what do NFL players find him? The only thing they like about his is that he goes soft on them. Sure there are other HCs who are boring---BUT the great ones like Belichick at least have tricks up their sleeves on game day---and most importantly have their teams prepared.

Last year was one of the most gutless displays of coaching I have ever seen at any level. If a coach every looked like he wanted to sabotage his own team and the organization---Whisenhunt exemplified the part. What's worse, this year after all the "All-In" rhetoric from Michael Bidwill, nothing appears to be any different. Whisenhunt's listless offense is finally moving the ball---after not recording a single first down before the opponent has scored 28 points---and his reaction is to punt the ball back to a gassed defense inside the opponents' 50 on a 4th and 5. That says it all about Whisenhunt as a coach. He quits on his own team---he shows no confidence in them, so why should they show confidence in themselves?

The media is now goading Whisenhunt into confessing his own culpability and to giving him the opportunity to express how angry he is. They essentially are trying to fill in the voids in the coach that by now seem so conspicuously apparent. He is not the stuff that good coaches are made of---and in reality is nothing close to it.

After all, he's already told us in a more lucid and revealing moment last year---the embarrassing losses are easier to get over.
 
Last edited:

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
12,996
Reaction score
5,240
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Mitch, I wish I had the answers but I am as troubled as you are.

1. Whis seems to have changed and I really don't know why. Perhaps he is too scared now that he is losing. He also doesn't have Warner or OC Haley here. Both of them brought passion to the game. That sure is missing.

2. His commitment to Grimm is really disappointing. Is he afraid to kick his ass? He is overcommitted to the Steeler organization with ex- players and coaches. Was Ray Horton the best out there?

3. When he signed the contract extension it included player personnel decisions.
Is this too much for him to handle? What really is his role and that of Graves? Are they a team or incompatible? Are they getting the players that he wants?

The passion, the creativity all are missing. He seems to have regressed. Losing can do that to you.

I hate being negative but help is needed. Whis may be over his head. Graves is really not a football guy, he doesn't study any film. He is a business person. In Green Bay Thompson calls the shots and gets the players for McCarthy.
Mitch, you said this in one of your other posts and I agree with you. We need to bring in a senior GM and Whis would report to him. A GM that really has a a football mind.

However, I just don't see that happening.
 

SoCal Cardfan

ASFN Addict
Joined
Apr 11, 2004
Posts
6,056
Reaction score
1,296
Good write up Mitch.. Pretty much dead on on every point.

For anyone who doesn't have the time to read it... I'll summarize it:

Whisenhunt is terrible.
 

SeattleCard

Back in Arizona!!!
Joined
Mar 3, 2003
Posts
3,075
Reaction score
786
Location
Mesa, AZ
I disagree. Coach Whiz will turn it around. But I expect to be the minority on this thread.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,170
Reaction score
39,771
it would be interesting to see what happened if Haley got fired soon.

I don't know the Cards would rehire him and I don't know he'd take the job if offered. But it does appear like Whis is the real OC and there is a need for a change there. It appears obvious Grimm can't coach the OL. I don't know if Miller is a good coach or not I don't think he's really calling the plays.
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,506
Reaction score
16,720
Location
San Antonio, Texas
My stance on Whis at this point is, I really don't know. Makes me ask myself, do the players possibly feel the same and if so that is not good regardless if Whis is really right or not on how he is running things. The only thing that helps a team do anything is winning, and we are not winning.
 

Cards_Campos

ASFN Addict
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Posts
5,596
Reaction score
2,390
Great Great post Mitch.

You know what? If you really think about it....He really was terrible when we had Warner and we went to the Super Bowl. We were blown out in 3 games that year, had the easiest schedule in the NFL and played in the worst division yet we barely won 9 games. We were considered by many the "Worst" team to ever make the playoffs. This with Warner lighting up offenses and 3 WR's gaining a 1000 yards!!!!! We still barely conjured up a good record.

The playoffs were trick play after aggressive play calling and we created turnovers to make it to the SUperBowl.

What has Whiz really ever done?!? Warner throws MORE TD'S then Incompletions and has one of the top 3 statistical passing performances in football history against the Packers.......and we win in OT on a questionable non call! o_O

We won DESPITE of WHiz. WHiz enjoyed the ride.

Now even Fitz says to reporters " We are not executing, these are the same plays we went to the Super Bowl with" What?!? Really?!? So 3 years later, teams can just slap in a copy of the 9-7 team from 2008 and game plan? So other coaches have 3 years of tape to figure out our whole scheme? Wow impressive. No new plays...No adjustments...No new ideas since we have 17 new players. WHiz is a genius. You can just rerun the same old stuff over and over and it will work. Damn it, it will...it has before!! LOL. I guess the Packers ran the same plays from the Favre era.
I guess the teams that haven't been to the SUper Bowl, have no shot since they must rework new schemes every day until they work.

Whiz is a joke.....I fell for it during the Super Bowl run.....But thats like dating a girl who you are not attracted too, have nothing in common and yet at dinner..she tells you she won the lottery and wants to get married. "I love you" is very easy to say there.

That is why I wanted him fired during the 2009 year....because he made an all star offense look terrible at times. He made Warner wait a year (2007-2008) before taking the reigns of the team...and this after he was the number 1 ranked QB in the league the 2nd half of the season.

Whiz is not a good coach...Pittsburgh new it.....a few of us saw it...and now it is evident. We have Fitz forever...That is great...but we won't win until WHiz is gone!!

One more thing...What is so maddening...He calls dink and dunk plays 90% of his plays and yet got rid of the QB who excels and wants to dink and dunk. (Leinart...didnt like him either) And yet gets QB's on our team who want to rifle it down the field. Derek Anderson couldn't dink and dunk a doughnut without hitting the patron 3 tables over at Dunkin Doughnuts. He never puts players in the proper scheme to excel. He thinks his system works ..no matter who is playing.

Ok 1 more thing.... :D Why not run a 2 rb set with TE and 2 WR's and let Kolb throw down the field...use the RB's as OL to help with the pass rushers and make Kolb stay!! in the pocket. Then let a RB peel off as a safety valve like Centers use to be. We certainly could use the CHIP help and maybe give Kolb enough confidence to get the ball down field. Pretty simple to me.
 
Last edited:

titan

i hate the farm
Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Posts
650
Reaction score
6
Location
phoenix
i agree with mitch. i also believe that whis got his mulligan last season especially with the quarter back nightmare. i feel that if whis doesn't pull it out this season with at least winning our division the clock will be ticking on him. i like whis but also think that he is out of his depth and looks confused. warner made him look like a real good coach, just look what happened after warner left.. jmho
 

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
12,996
Reaction score
5,240
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Whisenhunt will be here for the 2012 season no matter how we do this year. I really feel that is a given. However, will Michael Bidwill go out and get a real GM to turn the organization around or just keep Graves (the conservative approach)??
 

TigToad

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2003
Posts
1,788
Reaction score
418
Location
Bally’s Sports needs to go away
Wow... that was a depressing read. Mostly, because I can't really argue with what you said. Whis seems to have lost some of that aggressiveness in his play calling and coaching that helped turn this team around.
 

mrbyte

Be careful what you wish for.
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Posts
649
Reaction score
18
Location
Coventry, England
Wow... that was a depressing read. Mostly, because I can't really argue with what you said. Whis seems to have lost some of that aggressiveness in his play calling and coaching that helped turn this team around.

LOL I was just about to say the exact same thing!! :D

anyway great read Mitch...I think Whiz is being found out
no Haley no Kurt no win no motivation no clue...I hate myself for saying that, I really thought we had finally found a winner in Whiz, but really Whiz found a winner in Kurt......
 

Catfish

Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Posts
4,551
Reaction score
64
Wow... that was a depressing read. Mostly, because I can't really argue with what you said. Whis seems to have lost some of that aggressiveness in his play calling and coaching that helped turn this team around.

Whiz never was an aggressive play caller. Haley was, and Warner, who called many at the line of scrimmage was.
 

Paso Fino

Veteran
Joined
May 1, 2004
Posts
462
Reaction score
159
Location
Scottsdale & Flagstaff
Kurt was on 620 this morning and said the SB team did well because it had players who cared deeply and were leaders. He said it was not that talented but players with the leaders worked together. He declined to criticize Whiz.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,631
Reaction score
30,385
Location
Gilbert, AZ
it would be interesting to see what happened if Haley got fired soon.

I don't know the Cards would rehire him and I don't know he'd take the job if offered. But it does appear like Whis is the real OC and there is a need for a change there. It appears obvious Grimm can't coach the OL. I don't know if Miller is a good coach or not I don't think he's really calling the plays.

Every Cardinals report that I've read insists that Mike Miller is calling the plays. I have little reason to doubt that. The problem is that Miller's only worked with Whis, and so he's essentially an extension of the HC and his system.

Whis had too much power, too soon. He might still be able to be a successful head coach, but he needs someone above him to allow him to focus on football and to provide an overall vision of the franchise in concert with the head coach.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
92,162
Reaction score
70,339
Kurt was on 620 this morning and said the SB team did well because it had players who cared deeply and were leaders. He said it was not that talented but players with the leaders worked together. He declined to criticize Whiz.

they had leaders (Kurt/Berry... both huge figures on the team and one an all-time HOF) and PLAYMAKERS. Between Fitz, AW, Dockett, Dansby, Rolle, DRC, Boldin and Breaston, we consistently had guys that could and more often that not those two years DID make BIG plays for that team. That's 8 playmakers... we have three of them still on the team and only two even still deserve to be on the field. That's atrocious.

although, to be honest, even with those guys, without a Kurt/Berry, we'd probably still be a lot like DG's Cardinals... although maybe not. Those guys above, especially Dansby, Boldin and Breaston had enough time and experience as winners to be leaders at this point alongside Fitz and Dockett.

man, we let a ton of talent go from those playoff teams and replaced them with failed draft picks... and literally nothing else.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,170
Reaction score
39,771
Every Cardinals report that I've read insists that Mike Miller is calling the plays. I have little reason to doubt that. The problem is that Miller's only worked with Whis, and so he's essentially an extension of the HC and his system.

Whis had too much power, too soon. He might still be able to be a successful head coach, but he needs someone above him to allow him to focus on football and to provide an overall vision of the franchise in concert with the head coach.

yes sorry that's what I mean. we're not running Miller's system we're running Whiz's.

So when Miller has to come up with a play I wonder is he saying what should I do, or what would HE do?

i also think people overrate "play callin". I think it just looks better when the guy playing Qb is as good as Warner was.

But we're too predictable and we don't seem to be scheming to help our new QB. Whiz keeps saying we're asking a lot from him, that implies they're saying here's the peg, fit into it.
 

b8rtm8nn

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Posts
3,373
Reaction score
1,649
Location
Tucson
Whis had too much power, too soon. He might still be able to be a successful head coach, but he needs someone above him to allow him to focus on football and to provide an overall vision of the franchise in concert with the head coach.

You keep saying this, I'll keep agreeing - I don't want to go through another head coach, I want this one fixed.
 

BigRedRage

Reckless
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Posts
48,274
Reaction score
12,525
Location
SE valley
i remember when whiz said he wont try to put square pegs into round holes.
 

Denny Green Fan

Registered
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Posts
1,973
Reaction score
206
they had leaders (Kurt/Berry... both huge figures on the team and one an all-time HOF) and PLAYMAKERS. Between Fitz, AW, Dockett, Dansby, Rolle, DRC, Boldin and Breaston, we consistently had guys that could and more often that not those two years DID make BIG plays for that team. That's 8 playmakers... we have three of them still on the team and only two even still deserve to be on the field. That's atrocious.

although, to be honest, even with those guys, without a Kurt/Berry, we'd probably still be a lot like DG's Cardinals... although maybe not. Those guys above, especially Dansby, Boldin and Breaston had enough time and experience as winners to be leaders at this point alongside Fitz and Dockett.

man, we let a ton of talent go from those playoff teams and replaced them with failed draft picks... and literally nothing else.


Denny didnt want to draft Aaron Rodgers cuz " I dont want Warner looking

over his shoulder" Just think if Denny would have picked Aaron there

and then Ngata at 10 the following year instead of Leinart?:D
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
I disagree. Coach Whiz will turn it around. But I expect to be the minority on this thread.

Why specifically would you expect Coach Whiz to turn it around. We have continually gotten worse. Something is terrible wrong with this team. It may be in organization but be very sure that Graves and Whiz are part of the problem. NFL teams rarely put up with performances like we are putting up for very long. You generally start by removing the coach or coaches and or the GM. Some changes must be made at the end of this year or people will start to question Michael Bidwill's capabilities as an owner. I doubt very much he will like that.
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
it would be interesting to see what happened if Haley got fired soon.

I don't know the Cards would rehire him and I don't know he'd take the job if offered. But it does appear like Whis is the real OC and there is a need for a change there. It appears obvious Grimm can't coach the OL. I don't know if Miller is a good coach or not I don't think he's really calling the plays.

How much of the improvement of San Francisco be attributed to the new coach Harbaug? This in his first year. One does not have to bring in an NFL head coach or assistant. A good mind is a good mind in college or in the NFL. Perhaps our greatest head coach ever Don Coryell I believe came to us right out of college. Can Graves, who is not a football man, recognize a good head coach when he sees one? I suspect he would be afraid to take a chance and do something different when hiring coaches. He would likely stick with the NFL method of hiring coaches from other teams or their assistants.

The Cubs are laying it all on the line for a proven GM in Theo Epstein. 5 years at some big dollars. He is only around 34 and was a GM at age 28. If a GM has the authority most GMs have over selecting coaches and players then he is likely the most important person in a football or baseball organization. If the GMs responsibility is murky then the entire organization is murky. It has been asked many times on this board just what is Graves actual job responsibilities? Is he just a figurehead? If the owners cannot step up and clear this up we all should suspect he is a figurehead. So who is running this team and is behind the curtain as Mitch would say?
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
My stance on Whis at this point is, I really don't know. Makes me ask myself, do the players possibly feel the same and if so that is not good regardless if Whis is really right or not on how he is running things. The only thing that helps a team do anything is winning, and we are not winning.

If the Bidwill's operate as they have for many years they will not likely eat Whiz's salary unless it is absolutely a must. Mr. Bidwill Sr. may not be pulling the levers behind the curtain but you can be sure he is behind that curtain with who ever is pulling the levers. He is not like General MacArthur who was just an old soldier and would just fade away. He will die with his boots on and be the man he has always been. The one constant in this organization.
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
Great Great post Mitch.

You know what? If you really think about it....He really was terrible when we had Warner and we went to the Super Bowl. We were blown out in 3 games that year, had the easiest schedule in the NFL and played in the worst division yet we barely won 9 games. We were considered by many the "Worst" team to ever make the playoffs. This with Warner lighting up offenses and 3 WR's gaining a 1000 yards!!!!! We still barely conjured up a good record.

The playoffs were trick play after aggressive play calling and we created turnovers to make it to the SUperBowl.

What has Whiz really ever done?!? Warner throws MORE TD'S then Incompletions and has one of the top 3 statistical passing performances in football history against the Packers.......and we win in OT on a questionable non call! o_O

We won DESPITE of WHiz. WHiz enjoyed the ride.

Now even Fitz says to reporters " We are not executing, these are the same plays we went to the Super Bowl with" What?!? Really?!? So 3 years later, teams can just slap in a copy of the 9-7 team from 2008 and game plan? So other coaches have 3 years of tape to figure out our whole scheme? Wow impressive. No new plays...No adjustments...No new ideas since we have 17 new players. WHiz is a genius. You can just rerun the same old stuff over and over and it will work. Damn it, it will...it has before!! LOL. I guess the Packers ran the same plays from the Favre era.
I guess the teams that haven't been to the SUper Bowl, have no shot since they must rework new schemes every day until they work.

Whiz is a joke.....I fell for it during the Super Bowl run.....But thats like dating a girl who you are not attracted too, have nothing in common and yet at dinner..she tells you she won the lottery and wants to get married. "I love you" is very easy to say there.

That is why I wanted him fired during the 2009 year....because he made an all star offense look terrible at times. He made Warner wait a year (2007-2008) before taking the reigns of the team...and this after he was the number 1 ranked QB in the league the 2nd half of the season.

Whiz is not a good coach...Pittsburgh new it.....a few of us saw it...and now it is evident. We have Fitz forever...That is great...but we won't win until WHiz is gone!!

One more thing...What is so maddening...He calls dink and dunk plays 90% of his plays and yet got rid of the QB who excels and wants to dink and dunk. (Leinart...didnt like him either) And yet gets QB's on our team who want to rifle it down the field. Derek Anderson couldn't dink and dunk a doughnut without hitting the patron 3 tables over at Dunkin Doughnuts. He never puts players in the proper scheme to excel. He thinks his system works ..no matter who is playing.

Ok 1 more thing.... :D Why not run a 2 rb set with TE and 2 WR's and let Kolb throw down the field...use the RB's as OL to help with the pass rushers and make Kolb stay!! in the pocket. Then let a RB peel off as a safety valve like Centers use to be. We certainly could use the CHIP help and maybe give Kolb enough confidence to get the ball down field. Pretty simple to me.

The run to the Superbowl was all about Kurt Warner, Larry Fitgerald and Anquin Boldin. Warner was not only the team leader and QB but the OC and play caller.
 
Top