Whiz and Graves' Philosophy: Stocking the Cardinals' Cupboards

[Crazy Canuck]

FYI.. to all

Larry Foote turns 30 in June...

Not heading to the glue factory, just yet.

 

[Duckjake]

Where's the part about him being a good tackler? Here's the scout on him from The Huddle Report:

The Huddle Report sucks.

In 2005 the Cards drafted 5 guys listed in the top 75 overall prospects by the Huddle Report.

The only one still in the NFL is Rolle.

 

[Duckjake]

I have never been that much of a fan of Dansby. He is a good LB, but not a superstar.

So we replace a good LB with a 7th round pick because he isn't a superstar? Knowing that the majority of top quality starters at WILB in the NFL are first or second round selections?

Replace your good young players with other people's junk or third tier college players instead of replacing your good older players with your own good young players with 2-3 years of experience?

That's a surefire method for success. And it sure isn't the method the Steelers have been using.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

So we replace a good LB with a 7th round pick because he isn't a superstar? Knowing that the majority of top quality starters at WILB in the NFL are first or second round selections?

No you would do it because you don't want to pay him 30 million guaranteed, which is superstar money, when through FA or 1 or 2 drafts you can no doubt replace his production at around 1/15 the cost.

 

[Early]

So we replace a good LB with a 7th round pick because he isn't a superstar? Knowing that the majority of top quality starters at WILB in the NFL are first or second round selections?

Replace your good young players with other people's junk or third tier college players instead of replacing your good older players with your own good young players with 2-3 years of experience?

That's a surefire method for success. And it sure isn't the method the Steelers have been using.

Larry Foote was a late fourth round selection and James Harrison was a rookie free agent. Two in that LB unit. Steelers can and are willing to take late round potential.

Does not need to be a 7th round selection. He could be taken in 4th, 5th and 6th as well. In bottom of the draft, I would like to see this selection, because he has the same skillset as Dansby, and he comes alot cheaper than Karlos, that is heavely overrated at this moment and one the most overrated player in NFL, in my opinion.

 

[Buckybird]

I would like to see this selection, because he has the same skillset as Dansby, and he comes alot cheaper than Karlos, that is heavely overrated at this moment and one the most overrated player in NFL, in my opinion.

Maybe many on this board are underrating Los & his skills.

He's not great, but he's been a pretty damn good ever since his arrival in the desert. Dansby diffantly has been the best LB the Cards have had since the days of Eric Hill & Ken Harvey. His skills of playing all 3 downs will not easily be replaced.

 

[kerouac9]

No you would do it because you don't want to pay him 30 million guaranteed, which is superstar money, when through FA or 1 or 2 drafts you can no doubt replace his production at around 1/15 the cost.

Man, I hope people go back three years ago this time and see that people were saying the exact same thing about Calvin Pace. I hope that Dansby makes y'all eat your words the same way that Calvin Pace (really) made me eat mine.

Larry Foote was a late fourth round selection and James Harrison was a rookie free agent. Two in that LB unit. Steelers can and are willing to take late round potential.

Does not need to be a 7th round selection. He could be taken in 4th, 5th and 6th as well. In bottom of the draft, I would like to see this selection, because he has the same skillset as Dansby, and he comes alot cheaper than Karlos, that is heavely overrated at this moment and one the most overrated player in NFL, in my opinion.

And Larry Foote started 3 games in the first two seasons of his career. James Harrison didn't start a game the first two years of his career and wasn't a regular starter until he was a 6th year veteran. The Steelers are willing to wait on late-round potential because they don't shoot themselves in the faces by being penny wise and pound foolish. Ask Casey Hampton.

The Steelers drafted Orien Harris in 2006 to try and give the Steelers an option behind Hampton. He didn't work out, so the Steelers had to pay Hampton probably more than they wanted to.

 

[kerouac9]

The Huddle Report sucks.

In 2005 the Cards drafted 5 guys listed in the top 75 overall prospects by the Huddle Report.

The only one still in the NFL is Rolle.

All things considered, though, the 2005 draft was a crapfest. The Cards would have been mildly better if they'd taken Carlos Rogers instead of Rolle (considering our needs and strengths at the time [Berry coming off a great season and just signing Okearfor we wouldn't have drafted Ware]), maybe Nick Collins instead of Arrington (Frank Gore and his reconstructed knees went 21 picks after J.J.)... but there just wasn't much there.

It was kind of a bad draft to have extra picks in, but the cupboard was pretty bare here in terms of talent.

 

[Duckjake]

Larry Foote was a late fourth round selection and James Harrison was a rookie free agent. Two in that LB unit. Steelers can and are willing to take late round potential.

Does not need to be a 7th round selection. He could be taken in 4th, 5th and 6th as well. In bottom of the draft, I would like to see this selection, because he has the same skillset as Dansby, and he comes alot cheaper than Karlos, that is heavely overrated at this moment and one the most overrated player in NFL, in my opinion.

It took Harrison 4 years to get up to starter quality. Foote almost 3 years. Are you willing to wait that long for the UDFA or late round pick to step up?

The Steelers can and will do that because they have established players at the positions. The Cards don't.

 

[Duckjake]

All things considered, though, the 2005 draft was a crapfest. The Cards would have been mildly better if they'd taken Carlos Rogers instead of Rolle (considering our needs and strengths at the time [Berry coming off a great season and just signing Okearfor we wouldn't have drafted Ware]), maybe Nick Collins instead of Arrington (Frank Gore and his reconstructed knees went 21 picks after J.J.)... but there just wasn't much there.

It was kind of a bad draft to have extra picks in, but the cupboard was pretty bare here in terms of talent.

No doubt that 2005 draft was as weak as the 2004 draft was strong.

 

[joeshmo]

The Steelers drafted Orien Harris in 2006 to try and give the Steelers an option behind Hampton. He didn't work out, so the Steelers had to pay Hampton probably more than they wanted to.

The 300 pounds soaking wet Harris was drafted to play DE not to be an eventual Hampton replacement. Harris played as a DE in the only 4 preseason games he played for Pitt.

 

[Early]

It took Harrison 4 years to get up to starter quality. Foote almost 3 years. Are you willing to wait that long for the UDFA or late round pick to step up?

The Steelers can and will do that because they have established players at the positions. The Cards don't.

First, it's 2 years for Foote. And secondly, that doesn't matter, it's all about getting the right guy.

Like I said, we have brought us self in a very hard spot at this position. There is no easy way out of this. Yes, even rather wait for a late rounder to step up, than pay 30 mill for a LB that has played average football this year and is completely overrated.

The good good thing is that LB is a easy position to install and transition to. The reason Foote and Harrison waited was maybe more because of the players already there at the position for Steelers, rather than their quality early on. Like you say it, they could wait for these players to be completely ready, because they an estabilished and great unit already. If not, these players would have developed much faster on the field than the practice field.

 

[Catfish]

Also, Devin McCourty doesn't like to tackle or get his hands on WRs. I don't think that Whis is going to want to have two guys that aren't physical at the LOS.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU HEARD THAT McCOURTY DOESN'T LIKE TO TACKLE-----------

This is from NFL.DraftScout.com on Devin McCourty------CB, 5-11, 190

Devin already earned his reputation with scouts before the season with his combination of speed and physical play, but a First Team all Big East selection in '09, cemented his draft status. McCourty has also been a major contributor on special teams, managing 25.1 yards per kick-off return, including one for a TD in '09. He also blocked 7 kicks in his three year career.

ANALYSIS:

Read & React: Reads the receivers body language to see if his man is the primary target. Quick to jump routes because he reads the QB well. Doesn't bit on stop and go routes. Supports the run quickly, even when t he ball is in the middle of the field, or on the other side of the field.

Man Coverage: Can press, or play off effectively. Has fluid hips, transitions smoothly, and stays low and is quick in his back pedal. Sticks to receivers in their routes, showing excellent change of direction. Plays more physically than you would expect for his size, using his hands to jam on the line and maintain control downfield. Larger receivers will use their size to shield him from slants and crossing patterns.

Zone Coverage: Should make a very good zone corner in the NFL. Good awareness, keeping one eye on the short receiver, and the other on any players trying to hit the hole behind him. Comes off his man to react to the ball in the air. Makes the easy interception, goes up to get the ball and has strong hands. Will freelance when there is no receiver lining up on his side, leaving his zone open.

Closing/Recovery: Baits QB's into throwing into his direction, closing very well when the ball is in front of him. Good plant and drive with body control. Takes proper angle to the receiver. Lacks elite speed, but can recover quickly enough when picked, on crossing or drag routes in order to make the tackle.

Run Support: Very willing, (and able), to support the run. Attacks running backs coming into his area, bringing them down with veracity. Holds up his man to force plays inside. Hustles across the field to plays on the opposite sideline. Tough player, but still lacks the size to consistently get off downfield blocks from larger receivers.

Tackling: Wiry, strong, and solid in his tackling technique. Brings his hips and wraps ballcarriers when straight-on in his sights. Doesn't give up many yards after the catch. Attacks screens, even after push-off from larger receivers. Avoids blocks in the open field, usually wrapping a leg instead of cutting. Rarely misses completely, even against elusive runners. Should be one of the better special teams players in his class.

Intangeables: Reliable veteran who loves to play the game. Took a leadership role in 2009 with Jason McCourty, and safety Courtney Greene in the NFL. Very good student who made multiple Big East acedemic teams.

NFL comparison: Ronde Barber, Buccaneers

From The Senior Bowl. 1-27-2010:

Rutgers' Devin McCourty, and Cal's Syd'Quan Thompsonhave also helped their cause this week. McCourty has the agility and straight line speed for man coverage. He breaks on the ball quickly, and has the hands to rip away passes at the last moment. Unlike Kyle Wilson, McCourty and Thompson are standout run defenders ----Rob Rand and Chad Reuter, The Sports Xchange, NFLDraftScout.com

 

[Stout]

First, it's 2 years for Foote. And secondly, that doesn't matter, it's all about getting the right guy.

Like I said, we have brought us self in a very hard spot at this position. There is no easy way out of this. Yes, even rather wait for a late rounder to step up, than pay 30 mill for a LB that has played average football this year and is completely overrated.

The good good thing is that LB is a easy position to install and transition to. The reason Foote and Harrison waited was maybe more because of the players already there at the position for Steelers, rather than their quality early on. Like you say it, they could wait for these players to be completely ready, because they an estabilished and great unit already. If not, these players would have developed much faster on the field than the practice field.

Early, I like ya, but you have it wrong with Harrison. It wasn't that he had someone ahead of him. He was cut, signed by the Ravens, cut, and re-signed (think I have the order right).

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Tackling: Wiry, strong, and solid in his tackling technique. Brings his hips and wraps ballcarriers when straight-on in his sights. Doesn't give up many yards after the catch. Attacks screens, even after push-off from larger receivers. Avoids blocks in the open field, usually wrapping a leg instead of cutting. Rarely misses completely, even against elusive runners. Should be one of the better special teams players in his class.

Sounds like a better tackler than any CB we have now.

 

[Catfish]

Sounds like a better tackler than any CB we have now.

He is, so is Syd'Quan Thompson !!!!!

 

[Mitch]

Sounds like a better tackler than any CB we have now.

I know many of you have written him off, but Michael Adams is one of the very best tacklers on the team, and is the best tackler at CB on the roster. If Donnie Henderson teaches this kid proper covering technique we may have a nifty nickel CB.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I know many of you have written him off, but Michael Adams is one of the very best tacklers on the team, and is the best tackler at CB on the roster. If Donnie Henderson teaches this kid proper covering technique we may have a nifty nickel CB.

If he doesn't have to cover a 6'5" TE. I don't doubt the heart this kid has it's his height and jumping ability.

 

[Buckybird]

I know many of you have written him off, but Michael Adams is one of the very best tacklers on the team, and is the best tackler at CB on the roster. If Donnie Henderson teaches this kid proper covering technique we may have a nifty nickel CB.

he definately is like a pesky fly that won't go away, but his size does limit his effectiveness. I like the kid, but think those last 2 playoff games showed teams to find #27 & go after him. Size is diffantely a big factor at DB.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

he definately is like a pesky fly that won't go away, but his size does limit his effectiveness. I like the kid, but think those last 2 playoff games showed teams to find #27 & go after him. Size is diffantely a big factor at DB.

BIM: definitely

The most misspelled word on the internet.

 

[Buckybird]

BIM: definitely

The most misspelled word on the internet.

does that mean I don't get a gold star 2day?

BTW CC, tell us how bad the Canadians are gonna spank the U.S. in hockey 2day.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

does that mean I don't get a gold star 2day?

I'll give you a gold star in return for a Hockey Gold this afternoon...

 

[Buckybird]

I'll give you a gold star in return for a Hockey Gold this afternoon...

you beat me 2 it before I edited

I think the Canadiens will pull it off also. I think they should play the old vet in goal though.

 

[kerouac9]

Tackling: Wiry, strong, and solid in his tackling technique. Brings his hips and wraps ballcarriers when straight-on in his sights. Doesn't give up many yards after the catch. Attacks screens, even after push-off from larger receivers. Avoids blocks in the open field, usually wrapping a leg instead of cutting. Rarely misses completely, even against elusive runners. Should be one of the better special teams players in his class.

No. You're right. "Usually wrapping a leg" definitely sounds like he's going to be one of the more physical cornerbacks in the NFL and sounds like he'll have no problem matching up and bringing down guys like Randy Moss, Marques Colston, Calvin Johnson, and Andre Johnson. Just think of all the leg tackles that brought down our own Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin last year.

 

[joeshmo]

If he doesn't have to cover a 6'5" TE. I don't doubt the heart this kid has it's his height and jumping ability.

Heck if he doesn't have to cover anyone over 5-10.

The guy will never be anything but a #5 CB and awesome special teamer. Make him the new Morey, meaning he is only an emergency player but is the #1 or #2 special teamer.