Whiz and Graves' Philosophy: Stocking the Cardinals' Cupboards

[Catfish]

No. You're right. "Usually wrapping a leg" definitely sounds like he's going to be one of the more physical cornerbacks in the NFL and sounds like he'll have no problem matching up and bringing down guys like Randy Moss, Marques Colston, Calvin Johnson, and Andre Johnson. Just think of all the leg tackles that brought down our own Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin last year.

Hey, he did fine all through his 3 year career at Rutgers, and had a great Senior Bowl Game. Of course he may leave something to be desired, if you are comparing him to a (TACKLING MACHINE), like say, DRC. Get Real!!!

 

[Mitch]

When Whiz and RG met with the media at the Combine yesterday, Whiz continued to emphasize how pleased he is with the team's depth and how he loves competition at every position.

Some interesting notes:

1. Whiz said that Matt Leinart would welcome competition. Hmmm. There was even some mention of Chad Pennington, although it sounded like he is a QB they would consider, if "he is a FA."

2. They think re-signing Antrel Rolle is a "top priority"...but conceded that it looks like he wants to test the FA market.

3. They would like to re-sign NT Bryan Robinson. The love for Robinson even at 35 remains, apparently. I get the leadership part, but from a production standpoint he's not cutting it. Despite playing a good deal more than Gabe Watson, Watson had just as many tackles (28), more solo tackles (22-17), and more short yardage stuffs (4-1). In the two playoff games, Robinson had 1 tackle, Watson 4.

What this may hint at is the Cardinals are not going to draft a NT in the first 4 rounds. If they do draft a NT in the first half of the draft, the Robinson signing would seem moot.

Looks like, however, the team will not be offering Chike Okeafor a contract.

4. Whiz was reluctant to call rookie FS Rashad Johnson a "disappointment" but expressed how important it is for Johnson to have the "sense of urgency" to become more consistent. This would appear to be a euphemistic way of saying Johnson needs to get some fire in his belly. But, do we sometimes expect too much from rookies? Nick Saban must have called Johnson "the smartest player I've ever coached" for a good reason.

In additon, consistency can be apllied to all rookies. On defense last year, Bill Davis rarely played any of his rookies. This year, because of the attrition, he may be forced to play a rookie or two or three.

5. There seems to be legitimate interest from the Cardinals in OLB Joey Porter. If they sign him, I think they will be content with what they now have at OLB...which likely further narrows down the options at #26.

It's looking more and more like a CB or ILB at #26. The upside of the CBs looks more promising than the ILBers.

Today I'm think along these lines:

1. Kyle Wilson, CB, Boise St. or Devin McCourty, CB, Rutgers or Kareem Jackson, CB, Alabama or Sean Weatherspoon, LB, Missouri, or Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida.

2. Rob Gronkowski, TE, Arizona or Dennis Pitta, TE, BYU, or Edwin Veldheer, T, Hillside or Erik Decker, WR, Minnesota.

3. Micah Johnson, ILB, Kentucky, or Mike Johnson, G, Alabama, or Daryl Washington, LB, TCU, or A.J. Edds, LB, Iowa, or Nate Allen, FS, S. Florida.

 

[Duckjake]

First, it's 2 years for Foote. And secondly, that doesn't matter, it's all about getting the right guy.

Like I said, we have brought us self in a very hard spot at this position. There is no easy way out of this. Yes, even rather wait for a late rounder to step up, than pay 30 mill for a LB that has played average football this year and is completely overrated.

The good good thing is that LB is a easy position to install and transition to. The reason Foote and Harrison waited was maybe more because of the players already there at the position for Steelers, rather than their quality early on. Like you say it, they could wait for these players to be completely ready, because they an estabilished and great unit already. If not, these players would have developed much faster on the field than the practice field.

I still don't agree that you can just grab any LB and stick him and be fine. Too many of the top LBs are first or second round draft picks. Even the Steelers used their first and second round selections on guys to play LB for them in 2007 Lamar Woodley and Lawrence Timmons.

$30 million for a guy like Dansby is not too much imo given what other guys have been getting paid but if he is gone I'd be a lot happier if his replacement is a first or second round selection rather than a 4th or 5th.

Even the Steelers used their first and second round picks in 2007 on guys to play LB for them, Lamar Woodley and Lawrence Timmons. James Farrior is also a former #1.

 

[Buckybird]

I still don't agree that you can just grab any LB and stick him and be fine. Too many of the top LBs are first or second round draft picks. Even the Steelers used their first and second round selections on guys to play LB for them in 2007 Lamar Woodley and Lawrence Timmons.

$30 million for a guy like Dansby is not too much imo given what other guys have been getting paid but if he is gone I'd be a lot happier if his replacement is a first or second round selection rather than a 4th or 5th.

Even the Steelers used their first and second round picks in 2007 on guys to play LB for them, Lamar Woodley and Lawrence Timmons. James Farrior is also a former #1.

Duck, guys on this board will see 1st hand how much #58 will be missed this upcoming season. He will be missed for his skills as well as making the defensive calls on the field.

 

[Catfish]

Duck, guys on this board will see 1st hand how much #58 will be missed this upcoming season. He will be missed for his skills as well as making the defensive calls on the field.

Of course he will be missed-----Its just that to keep him, we have to pay him the average top 5 salary of ALL players in the league. He is not worth that kind of money no matter how you shake it out. No linebacker is.

 

[Buckybird]

Of course he will be missed-----Its just that to keep him, we have to pay him the average top 5 salary of ALL players in the league. He is not worth that kind of money no matter how you shake it out. No linebacker is.

you're right but in my opinion this problem should have been resolved 2 offseasons ago. It should have never came to this.

 

[kerouac9]

Of course he will be missed-----Its just that to keep him, we have to pay him the average top 5 salary of ALL players in the league. He is not worth that kind of money no matter how you shake it out. No linebacker is.

Or, you could money-whip him into an extension. $30 million guaranteed on a five-year deal is going to seem like peanuts if we end up having two invest two or three draft picks to replace him over the next five years.

 

[Zeno]

BIM: definitely

The most misspelled word on the internet.

Not "rediculous"? or "compliment" when they mean "complement"?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

It's looking more and more like a CB or ILB at #26. The upside of the CBs looks more promising than the ILBers.

Today I'm think along these lines:

1. Kyle Wilson, CB, Boise St. or Devin McCourty, CB, Rutgers or Kareem Jackson, CB, Alabama or Sean Weatherspoon, LB, Missouri, or Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida.

I just don't understand why people think we are going to spend a first round pick on a CB, no matter how great the player that is available at #26, even if its Joe Haden. In fact I would be willing to bet anyone that no matter how many picks we get for Q we won't use a 1st or 2nd on a corner.

First off we used a #1 pick in 2008 on a CB. Secondly the coaches like Toler and wouldn't want to take PT away from him. Third for as much as McFadden gets killed on this board he's a solid #2 CB and is going to play out his final year, likely as the #2, unless Toler makes big time progress this offseason.

I think with the 2 playoff games everyones immediate reaction is to say "we need more corner help" but with the players on hand and other priorities, I just don't see it.

I say ILB or NT with first pick depending on the value.

 

[Cardiac]

I just don't understand why people think we are going to spend a first round pick on a CB, no matter how great the player that is available at #26, even if its Joe Haden. In fact I would be willing to bet anyone that no matter how many picks we get for Q we won't use a 1st or 2nd on a corner.

First off we used a #1 pick in 2008 on a CB. Secondly the coaches like Toler and wouldn't want to take PT away from him. Third for as much as McFadden gets killed on this board he's a solid #2 CB and is going to play out his final year, likely as the #2, unless Toler makes big time progress this offseason.

I think with the 2 playoff games everyones immediate reaction is to say "we need more corner help" but with the players on hand and other priorities, I just don't see it.

I say ILB or NT with first pick depending on the value.

Teams can and will and often do draft CB's in Rd's 1 & 2.

Top paying positions in the NFL:
QB, LT, DE, CB.
Toler needs to earn his playing time like every other player on the team.
Adams and Brown can definitely be upgraded. McFadden is in his last year and although I don't think he is gawd awful I would love to have a better CB on the team.

Whis and Davis prefer to not play rookies so draft a CB in Rd1 and he will start working his way onto the field this year and be ready with DRC & Toler for next year.

K9 has illustrated for us how tough it is to pick a good NT. ILB's can be had in later rounds.

Bottom line for me is BPA in Rd 1 excluding QB, WR or RB.

 

[kerouac9]

Teams can and will and often do draft CB's in Rd's 1 & 2.

Top paying positions in the NFL:
QB, LT, DE, CB.
Toler needs to earn his playing time like every other player on the team.
Adams and Brown can definitely be upgraded. McFadden is in his last year and although I don't think he is gawd awful I would love to have a better CB on the team.

Whis and Davis prefer to not play rookies so draft a CB in Rd1 and he will start working his way onto the field this year and be ready with DRC & Toler for next year.

K9 has illustrated for us how tough it is to pick a good NT. ILB's can be had in later rounds.

Bottom line for me is BPA in Rd 1 excluding QB, WR or RB.

Yeah... and of those highest-paid positions, CB is the easiest one to find good players outside of the early rounds in the draft. Yes, Champ Bailey, Nmandi Ashomuga, and Derrelle Revis were all first-round picks, but Cortland Finnegan and Asante Samuel were drafted outside of the first day. And guys like Bailey, Nate Clements and Antoine Winfield all moved via trades or free agency. It's possible to get good cornerbacks outside the first two rounds.

It's much more difficult to find good QBs, LTs, and pass rushers (I would hesitate to say DEs) outside of the early rounds. I would add (based on DJ's research) that you're much more likely to replace Dansby's production if you get a first-day OLB, as well.

 

[Cardiac]

Yeah... and of those highest-paid positions, CB is the easiest one to find good players outside of the early rounds in the draft. Yes, Champ Bailey, Nmandi Ashomuga, and Derrelle Revis were all first-round picks, but Cortland Finnegan and Asante Samuel were drafted outside of the first day. And guys like Bailey, Nate Clements and Antoine Winfield all moved via trades or free agency. It's possible to get good cornerbacks outside the first two rounds.

It's much more difficult to find good QBs, LTs, and pass rushers (I would hesitate to say DEs) outside of the early rounds. I would add (based on DJ's research) that you're much more likely to replace Dansby's production if you get a first-day OLB, as well.

Revis, Bailey, Scrable are all beter then Finnegan and Samuel. Now I'm splitting hairs and would take the latter two ahead of McFadden etc but as is the case with any position/player the success rate and quality is always higher in Rd1 over any other Rd.

If the Cards have a NT rated as the BPA at pick 26 then I believe and hope they pick the NT. Same applies to any position on the D side of the ball.

 

[kerouac9]

Revis, Bailey, Scrable are all beter then Finnegan and Samuel. Now I'm splitting hairs and would take the latter two ahead of McFadden etc but as is the case with any position/player the success rate and quality is always higher in Rd1 over any other Rd.

If the Cards have a NT rated as the BPA at pick 26 then I believe and hope they pick the NT. Same applies to any position on the D side of the ball.

IMO, the wild card on the O side isn't a skill position player, it's on the offensive line. If a guy like the Robinson kid from Maryland or Iupati drops (and I think it's likely that the Iupati kid drops), then the Cards might move to take one of those guys.

If the Cards don't draft NT or OLB in the first found, they'll take OL or TE, IMO.

 

[football karma]

IMO, the wild card on the O side isn't a skill position player, it's on the offensive line. If a guy like the Robinson kid from Maryland or Iupati drops (and I think it's likely that the Iupati kid drops), then the Cards might move to take one of those guys.

If the Cards don't draft NT or OLB in the first found, they'll take OL or TE, IMO.

Bruce Campbell from Maryland?

Iupati would make sense -- Duece is a free agent after this year, Wells isnt getting younger.

 

[kerouac9]

Bruce Campbell from Maryland?

Iupati would make sense -- Duece is a free agent after this year, Wells isnt getting younger.

That's who I meant. I'm not sure he'll still be on the board, but if he were, it'd be mighty tempting. Especially if he can have a year or two to develop on the bench. It's going to be hard for me to pin that name on an OT when the "Bruce Campbell" that I know was in the Evil Dead movies and does a regular role on Burn Notice on USA.

The Cards had better re-sign Deuce Lutui to an extension this season. They can't afford to start letting their solid players leave. If the Cards do draft Iupati, it would likely mean that Deuce is gone (loose?), because the Cards are going to want to put Herman Johnson into the lineup here in the next season or two.

 

[Cardiac]

IMO, the wild card on the O side isn't a skill position player, it's on the offensive line. If a guy like the Robinson kid from Maryland or Iupati drops (and I think it's likely that the Iupati kid drops), then the Cards might move to take one of those guys.

If the Cards don't draft NT or OLB in the first found, they'll take OL or TE, IMO.

I was going to put the qualifier of Oline but I believe there will be a big run on the OT's and ergo there wouldn't be any BPA left at the oline position.
I will qualify this time and say I am still fresh off the Offensive Combine results and haven't had a chance to get jiffy about all the D talent.

Many of the pundits are expecting at least 6 OT's picked in Rd 1 and 4 of those in the top 9. The rational is good OT's don't make it to FA so you better draft them; especially with the current 6 yr RFA piece.

I'm going with the Levi slides to LT and either Johnson or Keith take over at RT.

I doubt Bruce Campbell gets past Al Davis, boy simply goes gaga over physical freaks.

 

[Buckybird]

Iupati would make sense -- Duece is a free agent after this year, Wells isnt getting younger.

Iupati has talent but was a holding machine in the Senior Bowl.

 

[Duckjake]

Iupati has talent but was a holding machine in the Senior Bowl.

I didn't know Iupati played for Texas Tech.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

The Cardinals have all but ruled out the possibility of re-signing free agent OT Mike Gandy.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Or, you could money-whip him into an extension. $30 million guaranteed on a five-year deal is going to seem like peanuts if we end up having two invest two or three draft picks to replace him over the next five years.

With as well as we have drafted the last 3 years I am not thinking it will take 2-3 picks. And even then. That's NO WHERE near 30 million guaranteed.

You guys have got to be kidding me. I don't want Dansby to leave. He is a nice player and in the top half of his position. But 30 million guaranteed? And something like 75 million total? Get out of here.

I agree we should have signed him 2 years ago. That's Rod Graves folks. We gambled because we were unsure of him and he ended up showing he was worth the 17 or so of guaranteed money he would have made in 2008.

He had 113 tackles, a FF, and an INT. I don't care if he made all the defensive calls and was the supposed fulcrum of our defense. I ain't even giving Dockett 30 million and he is 10X the player Dansby is.

It's not a question if we want him to stay. Of course we do. He's a home grown player who has lived up to his draft status. I can see how Cardinal fans would be sympathetic to that as that hasn't happend that often and may want to even overpay him a little.

But that much money????? No freaking way. I'll take my chances trying to repace him with that 30 million dollars worth of draft picks