Who Is Expendible?

[George O'Brien]

Right now the Suns have (or hope to have) a core of players that they hope will take then to the next level:

Stoudemire
Johnson
Marion
Barbosa
Lampe
Carbakapa
Vujanic
McDyess

Carbakapa is something of a question mark, but everyone is pretty certain he will be a good player. Vujanic is a very promising prospect. McDyess has played well and will return if the money works out.

At the same time, the Suns have several players whose situation may change over the summer:

Voskuhl - Jake is a high energy guy and not too expensive. However, if the Suns were to sign a FA center, he might be trade bait since he is better than many backup centers for a lot less money.

Jacobsen - Casey has not really developed offensively like the Suns expected. If the Suns sign Vujanic and a FA guard, Casey starts looking expendible.

Harvey - Donnell Harvey is a high energy guy and very inexpensive. But at 6'8" 220, he is too small to get many minutes at PF and has no outside shot at all. If the Suns re-sign McDyess and pick up another big man, he may not fit.

White - White is a physical role player who rebounds well and can battle some of the giants the Suns face. None the less, the Suns are likely to be shopping White to the Bobcats for cap relief. If that doesn't work, his primary value would be a cap fodder in a trade since he has an expiring contract.

Eisley - Howard has an enormous contract and has not played well for the Suns. But unless the Suns can find a way to get the Bobcats to take his contract in the expansion draft, it looks like he will be on the team unless the Suns cut him.

 

[devilalum]

Come on George!

Stick your neck out a little bit.

 

[Ryanwb]

Marion is completely expendable

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Marion is completely expendable

Bah, totally disagree.

Of course since we have run in circles about this before, I'll just leave it at I disagree.

 

[Ryanwb]

Bah, totally disagree.

Of course since we have run in circles about this before, I'll just leave it at I disagree.

The Suns came in last place with him on the team this year.....how worse could they do without him?????

 

[Errntknght]

Sheesh, you could say the same thing about Amare and JJ... might as well expend them along with Shawn, I guess.

 

[Ryanwb]

Sheesh, you could say the same thing about Amare and JJ... might as well expend them along with Shawn, I guess.

Nope, Marion was the highest paid and the elder of the 3, so he woudl go first

 

[Goldfield]

have to agree, I like his game, but he isnt worth his pay.

 

[green machine]

If we're trying to get Tmac or Kobe then JJ becomes expendable.

 

[George O'Brien]

Marion may be overpaid, but only marginally so. Almost every criticism of Marion comes back to this overwhelming bias toward offensive statistics. Marion's contributions in the area of rebounds, steals, blocked shots, etc. are simply dismissed as irrelevant.

The only thing that would make Marion expendible is if the Suns already had a guy who could do everything he can. They don't.

Are there cheaper SF's that I might prefer over Marion? Sure. Are any of them available? Not really. Check the FA's listed for the next two summers. Can you name anyone other than Kobe that would be an adequate replacement for Shawn?

In my mind Shawn's biggest problem has been shot selection. He has improved greatly over the past month and an half. I think he will improve even more if the Suns offense is revised to emphasize cutters more.

This does not make Shawn into a Kobe or T-Mac. But it will make him a key piece in the Suns future.

 

[slinslin]

Everyone is expendible with the exception of Amare and maybe Joe Johnson.

Zarko has been dissapointing. He is definately not untouchable for the right offer.

 

[George O'Brien]

Everyone is expendible with the exception of Amare and maybe Joe Johnson.

Zarko has been dissapointing. He is definately not untouchable for the right offer.

Even Amare is expendible if someone is offering KG or Duncan.

I don't think the Suns are going to shop Zarko, but I would not be shocked if he was included in a big combo deal.

I suspect that Casey is going to be shopped. If the Suns re-sign Dice and sign a FA center, I suspect that Jake could get shopped. We know that White and Eisley will get shopped.

 

[Chaplin]

Even Amare is expendible if someone is offering KG or Duncan.

I don't think the Suns are going to shop Zarko, but I would not be shocked if he was included in a big combo deal.

I suspect that Casey is going to be shopped. If the Suns re-sign Dice and sign a FA center, I suspect that Jake could get shopped. We know that White and Eisley will get shopped.

Why do you suspect Casey will be shopped? I've heard nothing except that the Suns love him. There is no reason to believe we're going to actively shop Casey Jacobsen.

This thread is just another rehash of countless others--it's like you keep repeating the same things, George!

 

[Skkorpion]

The problem is Jahidi White. It's likely, IMO, that we'd have to give up one of our better young players to entice a team to take White off our hands.

Just once, I'd like to see us keep the core group together and give them a chance to play together a second consecutive year.

 

[Ryanwb]

The problem is Jahidi White. It's likely, IMO, that we'd have to give up one of our better young players to entice a team to take White off our hands.

That was a bad move on the teams part, but hindsight is 20/20, they, much like everyone else...thought this team would be competitive.

 

[Chaplin]

The problem is Jahidi White. It's likely, IMO, that we'd have to give up one of our better young players to entice a team to take White off our hands.

Just once, I'd like to see us keep the core group together and give them a chance to play together a second consecutive year.

It has been said by some that Charlotte will pick him in the expansion draft--even without the draft pick. One even said Jahidi would be one of the first picks for the Bobcats.

 

[George O'Brien]

Why do you suspect Casey will be shopped? I've heard nothing except that the Suns love him. There is no reason to believe we're going to actively shop Casey Jacobsen.

This thread is just another rehash of countless others--it's like you keep repeating the same things, George!

I have generally assumed Jacobsen was part of their plans. He may be, but his general lack of offense over the past three weeks makes me wonder. Over the past 16 games, Casey has averaged 28.9 minutes yet has scored only 5.7 ppg. This is less than Voskuhl averages (6.6 ppg) in only 24.3 minutes. Over that period, Casey has broken double figures only 3 times and has been shut out three times.

At this point the Suns have four guards: JJ, Leandro, Eisley, and Casey. Assuming the Suns sign Vujanic, that would make five. However, one of the things that Jerry Colangelo mentioning in what they are seeking in the off season is "outside shooting". If they sign Kobe or some other guard, this would leave the Suns with six guards. Assuming the Suns cannot get rid of Eisley, this makes Jacobsen as the most likely to leave.

I don't recall making this case earlier because I thought Casey was showing progress. In the last few months, I'm guessing that opponents have not been leaving him open for three's like they once did, At the same time, his lack of mid range shooting has made him easy to defense. I hope Casey develops a better all round shooting game, but he hasn't shown it yet.

 

[elindholm]

I haven't been able to watch quite as many games as I'd wanted to this season. I know that Jacobsen's 3FG% has been up this year, but in the games that I have watched, he's very rarely had a positive impact. I wouldn't give him away just for the sake of doing it (or leave him unprotected), but I think if the Suns are faced with a trade proposal that will improve the team and are forced to part with Jacobsen to make it work, that won't be much of an obstacle.

My guess is that the only players management is keen on keeping are Stoudemire, Johnson, Lampe, and possibly Barbosa, who seems to have a good chance of developing into a role-playing, high-energy backup combo guard, like a less fundamentally sound version of Bobby Jackson or Darrell Armstrong.

Marion is a good player, but his rebounding numbers are overrated. When Stoudemire has a good rebounding game, Marion's contribution is usually down, indicating that (in general) he doesn't "earn" his rebounds so much as be quicker than his teammates to the ball. And keep in mind that this is with the Suns getting almost no rebounding from the center position.

Joe Mama has been saying all along that Marion is undersized, and I hadn't agreed before, but I do now. While he does a good job guarding wing players, that really should be the guards' responsibility; against stronger players in the post he isn't particularly effective or resourceful.

I don't think the Suns will go out of their way to get rid of Marion, but if another team wants him and is prepared to offer a good player in return, I doubt the Suns would have much reluctance to pull the trigger.

Cabarkapa is a gimmick player who won't ever be a real force. I think the Suns' main interest in him all along has been hoping that he might develop into a center substitute; with Lampe now on board and apparently superior in size and strength, Cabarkapa's only role is low-minute backup forward, which isn't a great need. And his inability to stay healthy can't be encouraging. For instance, while his hand was healing, why didn't he take the opportunity to strengthen the rest of his body?

I guess I'm the only one on this board who still likes Voskuhl, but I could easily see him being trade bait in a combination deal. He is, like it or not, a better-than-average backup center, and there are a good handful of teams who don't have a better option as a starter. I would think that lots of teams would want Voskuhl, especially given his contract, and could be persuaded to go for a larger deal if he were included in part of the package.

I’m not saying I think those players will be moved, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they were.

 

[scotsman13]

ICabarkapa is a gimmick player who won't ever be a real force. I think the Suns' main interest in him all along has been hoping that he might develop into a center substitute; with Lampe now on board and apparently superior in size and strength, Cabarkapa's only role is low-minute backup forward, which isn't a great need. And his inability to stay healthy can't be encouraging. For instance, while his hand was healing, why didn't he take the opportunity to strengthen the rest of his body?

elindholm did you see zarko last summer? i did. and let me tell you he isnt a gimmick player. sure he has had a bad year. this guy had hernia surgery during training camp. comes back and is just starting to learn the system and he brakes his wrist. gets back from that and his coach is gone and he isnt part of the rotation. as for working on his body beside leg presses how many things can you think of that you dont have to use your hands in? and how do you know that isnt what the doctors told him to do? give this guy one more year and i think that you will end up really liking him.

he does have a nice outside shoot but his biggest value is that he moves without the ball and his ability to drive to the hoop. he is also a good rebounder. does he need to get stronger? yes. does he need to get his confence back? of course but really you are guy are counting him out much to soon. how long did it take joe johnson to show what he can do? give barbrosa and zarko some time and you wont be disappointed.

 

[slinslin]

In the summer against guys who aren't in the league most of them.

His shooting percentages weren't good in europe. And he has shot some of the ugliest airballs from anywhere on the court including the freethrow line that I have ever seen.

 

[George O'Brien]

I haven't been able to watch quite as many games as I'd wanted to this season. I know that Jacobsen's 3FG% has been up this year, but in the games that I have watched, he's very rarely had a positive impact. I wouldn't give him away just for the sake of doing it (or leave him unprotected), but I think if the Suns are faced with a trade proposal that will improve the team and are forced to part with Jacobsen to make it work, that won't be much of an obstacle.

My guess is that the only players management is keen on keeping are Stoudemire, Johnson, Lampe, and possibly Barbosa, who seems to have a good chance of developing into a role-playing, high-energy backup combo guard, like a less fundamentally sound version of Bobby Jackson or Darrell Armstrong.

Marion is a good player, but his rebounding numbers are overrated. When Stoudemire has a good rebounding game, Marion's contribution is usually down, indicating that (in general) he doesn't "earn" his rebounds so much as be quicker than his teammates to the ball. And keep in mind that this is with the Suns getting almost no rebounding from the center position.

Joe Mama has been saying all along that Marion is undersized, and I hadn't agreed before, but I do now. While he does a good job guarding wing players, that really should be the guards' responsibility; against stronger players in the post he isn't particularly effective or resourceful.

I don't think the Suns will go out of their way to get rid of Marion, but if another team wants him and is prepared to offer a good player in return, I doubt the Suns would have much reluctance to pull the trigger.

Cabarkapa is a gimmick player who won't ever be a real force. I think the Suns' main interest in him all along has been hoping that he might develop into a center substitute; with Lampe now on board and apparently superior in size and strength, Cabarkapa's only role is low-minute backup forward, which isn't a great need. And his inability to stay healthy can't be encouraging. For instance, while his hand was healing, why didn't he take the opportunity to strengthen the rest of his body?

I guess I'm the only one on this board who still likes Voskuhl, but I could easily see him being trade bait in a combination deal. He is, like it or not, a better-than-average backup center, and there are a good handful of teams who don't have a better option as a starter. I would think that lots of teams would want Voskuhl, especially given his contract, and could be persuaded to go for a larger deal if he were included in part of the package.

I’m not saying I think those players will be moved, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they were.

I'm not sure I disagree. I doubt that Marion is on the market, but I know he struggles with really tall opponents and is not a primary scorer. We have all agreed that he is probably overpaid, so it seems unlikely that he could be packaged to a much better player. I can't really see the Suns getting value for him in a trade.

As for Zarko, who knows? I think it is premature to say he is injury prone (neither injury has been related to the knee), but he hasn't lived up to the preseason hype either. I'd have listed him as being on the market except that I can't see them getting anything for him.

 

[Chaplin]

I still like Jake Eric! He's still a bargain in the NBA, even with his faults.

 

[F-Dog]

I'd divide the Suns players into three groups:

1. Core prospects

Amare
Joe J--the Suns still have to get him signed this summer
Lampe
Barbosa

2. Not tradeable at this time--or, worth more to the Suns than anybody would give for them

Cabarkapa
Vujanic
H. Eisley--not that he's worth much, but he's going to be impossible to move

3. Tradeable--salary is a decent match for their contributions, so the Suns might be willing to let them go, and other teams might want to acquire them

Marion
Jacobsen
Voskuhl
J. White


I don't think the Suns have any more trades up their sleeves at this point, but if they do have another trade, I'm willing to bet it involves one of those four players and/or the Cleveland pick.

 

[George O'Brien]

I still like Jake Eric! He's still a bargain in the NBA, even with his faults.

Actually that is why he may attract interest. Overpaid stiffs aren't that appealing.

Jake is the kind of guy you like to have on the team if the price is right, but I don't see him a critical piece to a championship. In any case, the Suns would have to sign a FA center AND re-sign Dice for it to even come up.

 

[elindholm]

as for working on his body beside leg presses how many things can you think of that you dont have to use your hands in?

This is a joke, right? Abdominals would be first on the list -- strengthen those, and all of your movements get easier. Someone Cabarkapa's size should also be doing back exercises regularly (as he might be, since those don't usually show up with increased bulk). Fly machines are operated with your arms and elbows, not your hands, so he could have worked on his chest too. And so on.

I liked Cabarkapa a lot based on what I saw in the summer. But sometimes that success doesn't translate. In the NBA everyone is bigger and stronger.