Who Is Fed Up With Clayton

[Hard Hittin Adrian]

He is a GREAT fielder but cant hit worth a damn.....He is making 1.5 mil this year which could go to the resigning of cintron....Thoughts?

 

[moviegeekjn]

Wouldn't exactly say fed up with Clayton... More fed up with the Dbacks organizational hype about the guy and his vaulted fielding, veteran presence, and "ideal" #2 hitter.

Will give him props for being a decent glove guy that gets the balls that MLB shortstops are expected to get .... but that's about the extent of it. He doesn't have the fielding range of the league's top shortstops, and it's almost embarrassing to hear Tommy B. & company heap hyperbole on him.

The Dbacks should be using him more sparingly, perhaps starting when ground ball pitchers like Webb are on the mound AND slotting him for the #8 hole.

A #2 spot needs someone that has a much higher OBP, and not someone whose main batting prowess is the sacrificial bunt (esp. in the early innings)

 

[Ryanwb]

Diamondbacks have the #1 defense in the National League. We pay Glaus, Gonzalez and Green to bring the big bats....

Besides Clayton has picked it up as of late. I hear he switched to a lighter bat

 

[Hard Hittin Adrian]

Wouldn't exactly say fed up with Clayton... More fed up with the Dbacks organizational hype about the guy and his vaulted fielding, veteran presence, and "ideal" #2 hitter.

Will give him props for being a decent glove guy that gets the balls that MLB shortstops are expected to get .... but that's about the extent of it. He doesn't have the fielding range of the league's top shortstops, and it's almost embarrassing to hear Tommy B. & company heap hyperbole on him.

The Dbacks should be using him more sparingly, perhaps starting when ground ball pitchers like Webb are on the mound AND slotting him for the #8 hole.

A #2 spot needs someone that has a much higher OBP, and not someone whose main batting prowess is the sacrificial bunt (esp. in the early innings)

there is not one thing i disagree with you on....i have no idea y he is still at #2, its really pissing me off........cintron should be our starting SS....at least if ur watching the game 2 day

 

[ASUCHRIS]

t........cintron should be our starting SS....at least if ur watching the game 2 day

I like Cintron as well, but by your logic, Tony Clark should be an everyday starter. You are bringing flashbacks of a certain Dave64. :selfpleasure:

 

[devilalum]

I'm sorry but I was getting real tired of holding my breath every time a ball was hit to short. Womack and Cintron cost this team a lot of games with their bad fielding. Taking a hit away from the other team is worth the same as getting one for yours.

Lots of great teams have had great fielding marginal hitting SS's. It's a prettty smart formula if you can't afford or find a Nomar/Tejada type.

For the first time in franchise history we are all seeing what the term routine grounder actually means.

 

[devilalum]

there is not one thing i disagree with you on....i have no idea y he is still at #2, its really pissing me off........cintron should be our starting SS....at least if ur watching the game 2 day

I would start Cintron in place of Counsell every day.

Have you noticed how many "routine ground balls Clayton has put away today? Every one of those would have been an adventure for Cintron.

 

[IndyDevil]

I would start Cintron in place of Counsell every day.

Have you noticed how many "routine ground balls Clayton has put away today? Every one of those would have been an adventure for Cintron.

I would move Clayton down to #7 or 8 in the order & platoon Counsell/Cintron at 2nd; however, right now I would play Cintron every day.

 

[moviegeekjn]

Have you noticed how many "routine ground balls Clayton has put away today? Every one of those would have been an adventure for Cintron.

THAT is also as big a hyperbole as anything Tommy B. says over the air.

Cintron may make more errors on "regular" balls than Clayton, but he'll also reach a few that Clayton won't... plus, you'd have to consider how many games Cintron's bat would add vs. how many games Clayton's bat takes away... if you compare just these two.

 

[Ryanwb]

Cintron may make more errors on "regular" balls than Clayton, but he'll also reach a few that Clayton won't... plus, you'd have to consider how many games Cintron's bat would add vs. how many games Clayton's bat takes away... if you compare just these two.

Are you speaking about the same Cintron that hit .262 last year? I'm sorry but I am not convinved that Cintron has turned the corner from sucky hitter in only 24 at bats this season

 

[BC867]

Are you speaking about the same Cintron that hit .262 last year? I'm sorry but I am not convinved that Cintron has turned the corner from sucky hitter in only 24 at bats this season

Although I once predicted that Alex Cintron would one day be a Batting Champion (and still believe it -- if he's used properly) . . .

Alex Cintron is a detriment as a middle infielder.

At 3b or perhaps CF, fine. I suggest we trade him and Luis Terrero for a solid bullpen guy.

They get 2 prospects with a world of potential and we get the pitching help we need. Win-win.

 

[devilalum]

Although I once predicted that Alex Cintron would one day be a Batting Champion (and still believe it -- if he's used properly) . . .

Alex Cintron is a detriment as a middle infielder.

At 3b or perhaps CF, fine. I suggest we trade him and Luis Terrero for a solid bullpen guy.

They get 2 prospects with a world of potential and we get the pitching help we need. Win-win.

The thing about trading Cintron is that no GM is going to give up a really good pitcher for 24 at bats. If Cintron hits .400 for another month no way we trade him. And no matter how well he hits he'll never be a good fielder. Guys who hit for average and can't field are not all that valuable.

Everybody that talks trade with the Dbacks wants one of the trio in Tucson.

moviegeekjn:
Why don't you take a look at our team defensive stats from last year? We were terrible. That's why they signed Counsell and Clayton in the off season.

 

[Brandon_Webb]

The thing about trading Cintron is that no GM is going to give up a really good pitcher for 24 at bats. If Cintron hits .400 for another month no way we trade him. And no matter how well he hits he'll never be a good fielder. Guys who hit for average and can't field are not all that valuable.

Everybody that talks trade with the Dbacks wants one of the trio in Tucson.

moviegeekjn:
Why don't you take a look at our team defensive stats from last year? We were terrible. That's why they signed Counsell and Clayton in the off season.

Then again, defense is horrifically overvalued. The diffrence between a bad fielder and an average fielder in the big leagues isn't all that much. I would guess maybe 1 Out every series. I'd take that and tack on the extra .050 OBP

 

[Lefty]

Although I once predicted that Alex Cintron would one day be a Batting Champion (and still believe it -- if he's used properly) . . .

Alex Cintron is a detriment as a middle infielder.

At 3b or perhaps CF, fine. I suggest we trade him and Luis Terrero for a solid bullpen guy.

They get 2 prospects with a world of potential and we get the pitching help we need. Win-win.

No way do you trade prospects for a reliever unless that guy is Rivera or Rodriguez from the Angels. Red Sox fans still are talking about the trade with the Astros when Jeff Bagwell was dealt for Larry Anderson.

 

[Hard Hittin Adrian]

Are you speaking about the same Cintron that hit .262 last year? I'm sorry but I am not convinved that Cintron has turned the corner from sucky hitter in only 24 at bats this season

still better than royce clayton

 

[moviegeekjn]

moviegeekjn:
Why don't you take a look at our team defensive stats from last year? We were terrible. That's why they signed Counsell and Clayton in the off season.

Obvious that the TEAM stunk defensively last year, but consider that was the entire TEAM and not just Cintron. Remember that he was often working in tandem with Scotty Hairston--when a team goes bad, it's like a virus that infects everybody (even Gonzo made some horrid bloopers)

If paired with Clayton or Counsell, Cintron would be less prone to errors than he was last year. His whole mental attitude and focus is completely different from 2004 as well.

 

[moviegeekjn]

People who cite Clayton's fielding, are relying primarily on his reputation... As Clayton has grown older, his fielding range has diminished (a normal process for most all players) By clicking around the ESPN--MLB fielding site
these are his Zone Ratings over the past few years (including the current start)

• 2001 -- .871 (4th)
• 2002 -- .875 (5th)
• 2003 -- .840 (16th)
• 2004 -- .819 (19th)
• 2005 -- .792 (25th)

 

[devilalum]

People who cite Clayton's fielding, are relying primarily on his reputation... As Clayton has grown older, his fielding range has diminished (a normal process for most all players) By clicking around the ESPN--MLB fielding site
these are his Zone Ratings over the past few years (including the current start)

• 2001 -- .871 (4th)
• 2002 -- .875 (5th)
• 2003 -- .840 (16th)
• 2004 -- .819 (19th)
• 2005 -- .792 (25th)

Did you notice that he also leads the league in DP's?


And his range factor is one of the highest in that group??

 

[moviegeekjn]

Double plays is more a function of
1. having runners on base
2. playing behind a ground ball pitcher (one that doesn't strike out as many batters and/or allows more fly balls)
3. "Cheating" by playing closer to 2nd base

And it helps to have a competent keystone partner

Double plays have nothing to do with "Range Factor"

 

[Southpaw]

My condolences go out to all D'Back fans. As a White Sox fan, I became disgusted with Clayton during his 2 year stay in Chicago. The only numbers he puts up , come from non critical at bats. He blows and complains. Those are the 2 things he excels at.