Who is Josh Jackson?

[1Sun]

Man your guys’ trigger fingers . . . wow.

He played largely under control with Bill Self. Igor has barely had an opportunity with him and you’re already saying “I guess history suggests [he] can’t.” I don’t get it.

He had a very good college point guards in Devonte Graham and Frank Mason playing with him. I really do believe that Josh Jackson will be a much, much better player with a reliable point guard as the facilitator.

 

[Superbone]

Man your guys’ trigger fingers . . . wow.

He played largely under control with Bill Self. Igor has barely had an opportunity with him and you’re already saying “I guess history suggests [he] can’t.” I don’t get it.

Yep, he even showed more restraint in last night's game. He just needs to learn when to reign it in and that will be even easier after Booker returns.

 

[Proximo]

Man your guys’ trigger fingers . . . wow.

He played largely under control with Bill Self. Igor has barely had an opportunity with him and you’re already saying “I guess history suggests [he] can’t.” I don’t get it.

What I mean is in summer league and preseason he has been abysmal. Igor has had multiple opportunities to tell him to stop throwing up garbage shots, but he is still doing it.

It is not hard to not shoot contested jumpers if you are a bad shooter, and have been told not to shoot them. I am pretty sure he is just not listening.

 

[1tinsoldier]

it may be that Igor's approach is give Josh free reign to try and work things out while it doesn't matter

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

it may be that Igor's approach is give Josh free reign to try and work things out while it doesn't matter

This. Again people tend to take SL and preseason far too seriously. These games are prime opportunities to try things out and experiment. If JJ is chucking up a bunch of poor shots come the regular season than I would start to worry a little more, but this isn't exactly a bad time to tell JJ to be aggressive and look for his shot. Especially considering he is going through changes in his mechanics.

 

[1Sun]

This. Again people tend to take SL and preseason far too seriously. These games are prime opportunities to try things out and experiment. If JJ is chucking up a bunch of poor shots come the regular season than I would start to worry a little more, but this isn't exactly a bad time to tell JJ to be aggressive and look for his shot. Especially considering he is going through changes in his mechanics.

It doesn't look like his mechanics have improved...

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It doesn't look like his mechanics have improved...

It's not going to be completely different in one off season. I have seen subtle differences and even subtle differences take time and reps to work in.

 

[BC867]

This. Again people tend to take SL and preseason far too seriously. These games are prime opportunities to try things out and experiment. If JJ is chucking up a bunch of poor shots come the regular season than I would start to worry a little more, but this isn't exactly a bad time to tell JJ to be aggressive and look for his shot. Especially considering he is going through changes in his mechanics.

But it is also the time to prepare for ... when every game counts. On the court and, even more, in practice. And expect to see progress. Especially in attitude and approach.

 

[Hoop Head]

Jackson is doing a diary of the season on the Undefeated's site. This is his 2nd entry so far and he talks up Ayton's impact and skill. It's a good read, it's done with an analyst also so it's a mixture of what he says that is backed up by a regular basketball writer.

https://theundefeated.com/features/phoenix-suns-josh-jackson-diary-getting-hyped-for-the-new-season/

 

[Yuma]

Jackson is doing a diary of the season on the Undefeated's site. This is his 2nd entry so far and he talks up Ayton's impact and skill. It's a good read, it's done with an analyst also so it's a mixture of what he says that is backed up by a regular basketball writer.

https://theundefeated.com/features/phoenix-suns-josh-jackson-diary-getting-hyped-for-the-new-season/

I saw the first one and it was good! Wow made after McD got fired.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think Igor is ok letting JJ play the Booker role right now. Last night he did try to a little less and was a bit smarter than previous games and I think that's because he didn't need to try and takeover since everyone was contributing. If others are playing well, Jackson doesn't seem to mind deferring to everyone else. It's when we're losing that his bad decisions look worse because he tries to take over and get us back in the game but he's just not good enough to do that right now. I hope once he plays with Booker more that he'll settle into being a 2nd or 3rd option but that will take a little time.

The work ethic is there and that's why I think it's ridiculous how some want us to deal him already. You don't give up on a young player after 1 year when they play with the energy that Jackson does. Imagine how much better virtually everyone on the roster would be if they played with Jackson's energy. Of course he needs to corral it some but I believe he will. Even if he doesn't, he should be a really good 6th man someday, if nothing else.

 

[Yuma]

I think Igor is ok letting JJ play the Booker role right now. Last night he did try to a little less and was a bit smarter than previous games and I think that's because he didn't need to try and takeover since everyone was contributing. If others are playing well, Jackson doesn't seem to mind deferring to everyone else. It's when we're losing that his bad decisions look worse because he tries to take over and get us back in the game but he's just not good enough to do that right now. I hope once he plays with Booker more that he'll settle into being a 2nd or 3rd option but that will take a little time.

The work ethic is there and that's why I think it's ridiculous how some want us to deal him already. You don't give up on a young player after 1 year when they play with the energy that Jackson does. Imagine how much better virtually everyone on the roster would be if they played with Jackson's energy. Of course he needs to corral it some but I believe he will. Even if he doesn't, he should be a really good 6th man someday, if nothing else.

You cant teach aggression. Jordan had it in spades. I think about guys who just kind of drift along during games even though they have so much talent. You do want aggressive guys. Just hopefully his skills develop to match his aggression.

 

[1tinsoldier]

I hope once he plays with Booker more that he'll settle into being a 2nd or 3rd option but that will take a little time.

i'll be delighted if he settles into a legit 4th or 5th option

 

[Raze]

It doesn't look like his mechanics have improved...

It's better than last year, but still has a way to go.

Mechanically speaking, he use to initiate his shot on the LEFT side instead of ideally starting on his right side. Then after initiation he used to bring the ball to about 160 degrees towards his knees, then back up to 30 degrees, then follow through. (Klay Thompson is one of the most flawless shooters ever, and he is consistently at 90 degrees throughout.) There was a TON of movement in Josh's shot.

This year he looks to have cleaned up some of his issues. He still centers off initiation which creates too much movement, but that's far better than his left side start. While he still brings the ball too far down after initiation (135 degrees), he appears to be bringing back to 90 degrees and then following through. That's also better than when he was bringing it up to about 30 degrees. In essence, he's cleaned up about a third of his mechanics issues. He's always had a good follow through.

Said differently:

Ideally he should be Right-90-90.
Right now he's Center-135-90.
Last year he was Left-160-30

That's improvement in every area, but still not where he should be. (from my limited viewing)

Also, it is super encouraging to see his immediate chemistry with Ayton. Some of Josh's passes were spot on in the pick and roll. He continues to show that he is an underrated passer. Again, I would encourage the Pippen-esque PG role for Josh.

 

[SirStefan32]

I get frustrated with JJ, but I remind myself that I would rather have a player be too aggressive in his second season than invisible like Bender.

 

[Phrazbit]

Man your guys’ trigger fingers . . . wow.

He played largely under control with Bill Self. Igor has barely had an opportunity with him and you’re already saying “I guess history suggests [he] can’t.” I don’t get it.

Yeah. Unless you're getting something damn good or the player is a serious cancer it is really hard to justify trading young highly drafted players.

I don't see why anyone would consider moving Jackson unless it's in a trade for a really good starter under a multiyear contract.

 

[sunsfan88]

Man your guys’ trigger fingers . . . wow.

He played largely under control with Bill Self. Igor has barely had an opportunity with him and you’re already saying “I guess history suggests [he] can’t.” I don’t get it.

I'm not sure anyone wants to trade him for the sake of trading him. However if there is an All Star caliber PG available (say, Kemba Walker) who verbally commits to extend then trading him to secure the deal is worth looking into.

 

[Raze]

I decided to go back and watch the Sacramento highlights from 10/1 and see if I saw anything new with JJ. I was pleasantly surprised with one of his plays. For those interested here's what I noticed at the :56 mark:

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JJ gets the ball at the top of the key
Makes a solid cross over move to create separation to his left
Ayton makes a solid pick and then rolls
JJ correctly dribbles into the double team to try to free up Ayton (all left handed)
The D stones the play with weak side help against a lob (4 guys collapse the lane)
JJ makes a perfect jab step and goes into his shot motion
*It's by far the best form I've seen from him
From the jab step he collects the ball well on his right side (He might have been off-line but couldn't tell from the angle.)
Maintains 90-90 discipline throughout
Incredibly motion and lift on jumper
Great follow through.
His one negative on the play; toes are pointed incorrectly about 45 degrees left of the rim (should be aimed at rim)

In all my times evaluating his shot I've never seen it look that good. If he shoots like that through his career he will be a force. I can tell you that this is FAR better than what I saw in SL. He actually looked terrible then. Good to see he's been working on it. Shots are a tough thing to fix. Hopefully the staff is making this a priority.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Have to disagree with the toes pointing at the rim idea. That would suggest that you want your chest to point directly at the rim as well, but you actually want your shooting shoulder closer to the rim when you shoot to get your elbow in line with the rim. It is exceptionally dificult to do that with your chest pointing at the rim. Most of the best shooters in the league have their feet and chest aiming left of the rim (right handed players) in order to line up that shooting elbow.

 

[Raze]

Have to disagree with the toes pointing at the rim idea. That would suggest that you want your chest to point directly at the rim as well, but you actually want your shooting shoulder closer to the rim when you shoot to get your elbow in line with the rim. It is exceptionally dificult to do that with your chest pointing at the rim. Most of the best shooters in the league have their feet and chest aiming left of the rim (right handed players) in order to line up that shooting elbow.

Correct. Thank you. I should say slightly leaning towards the weak side. I was trying to emphasize JJ's exaggerated stance.

Klay tends to point his lead foot (right) slightly left of the rim. I'd say most of the time he's less than 30 degrees off left. But after lift off, his body is perfectly aligned.
Steph tends to be under 10, but often has his lead foot pointed at the rim.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Correct. Thank you. I should say slightly leaning towards the weak side. I was trying to emphasize JJ's exaggerated stance.

Klay tends to point his lead foot (right) slightly left of the rim. I'd say most of the time he's less than 30 degrees off left. But after lift off, his body is perfectly aligned.
Steph tends to be under 10, but often has his lead foot pointed at the rim.

Ironically Steph and Klay are some of the most inconsistent when it comes to lower body mechanics. They have impeccable consistency in upper body mechanics though. Ultimatelly it all comes down to getting that shooting elbow aligned properly and they do it better than anyone.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think Jackson actually has a good chance at being good someday but I’m not sure Sarver has the patience for the wait (considering he said in his latest interview that Suns are flipping the switch to trying to win now as opposed to tank).

I think he’s at least another 2 years away and needs to get on the Lonzo Ball off season training program. Jackson needs to get much, much stronger and bigger so that he can be more effective in his drives.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think Jackson actually has a good chance at being good someday but I’m not sure Sarver has the patience for the wait (considering he said in his latest interview that Suns are flipping the switch to trying to win now as opposed to tank).

Sarver said that we're at the end of our rebuild and should be more competitive. He didn't say the playoffs were expected or we need to be winning now. He's talking about young players developing and taking time. I really don't believe he meant we should be in the playoff hunt this year or that we'll make moves to try and get to the playoffs this year.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sarver said that we're at the end of our rebuild and should be more competitive. He didn't say the playoffs were expected or we need to be winning now. He's talking about young players developing and taking time. I really don't believe he meant we should be in the playoff hunt this year or that we'll make moves to try and get to the playoffs this year.

I think he just meant that rebuilding teams aim for draft position and that we are now past that. Of course, he might sing a different tune as the season progresses.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I am willing to bet that there quite a bit of boasting behind closed doors last summer by McD about how he shafted Danny Ainge and got JJ. You could see him trying to hold it back in that interview afterwards. If he actually convinced Sarver that if not for those shenanigans we would have ended up with Tatum instead of JJ, well . . . .

Sarver would believe in it at first. JJ really starts playing well toward the end of the year.
But Tatum looks like an all-star in the playoffs. Sarver really starts to question his GM.
Then JJ comes back for summer league and looks like a train wreck. Now he really is getting agitated.
Then JJ looks marginal in three preseason games.

Add to that the fact that they are likely not going to pick up the option on their previous #4 pick and they did not pick up the option on their #5 pick the previous year.

Enough.

JJ may have been the final straw gotten McD canned.