Who is the best DT in the draft?

[Goldfield]

Re: Re: Who is the best DT in the draft?

Originally posted by wallyburger
That would be the one & only VINCE WILFORK of U of Miami fame. Call him Mr. Stud. 6'2" and down to a svelte 325 pounds. Runs like the wind, relentless, tosses QBs around like rag dolls, eats RBs for lunch, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. Constantly double and tripled teams. Catch him in the Orange Bowl game tomorrow night. He plays witha cape on. His # is 75. Contrary to what some say, he does not tire. That is the Miami system. Rotate 8 DLs and go hard every game and do not blitz because they are such bad azzes they don't need no stinkin blitzes. Chris Rix has nightmares about Vince Wifork.

"Strengths: Say a nickname like “Baby Sapp”, and the entire room hushes to hear about him. Lots of undue expectations follow a nickanme like that, and heck, it pretty much wiped out the guy known as “Baby Jordan”. Well, Vince Wilfork is so talented he oughtta be known as “Daddy Sapp”. Why not? He’s got roughly forty pounds on his namesake.

A freak of nature even compared with other big and fast 300-pounders, Wilfork is a tough, thick-bodied interior lineman who’s lovin’ what he’s doin’ when he’s on a football field. Following an impressive lineage of Hurricane defensive linemen such as Jerome Brown, Cortez Kennedy, Russell Maryland, and Warren Sapp, Wilfork belongs in that pantheon of luminaries because he cannot be blocked one-on-one and must be double-teamed, and even then he still collapses the pocket or stuffs the run. Wilfork’s low center of gravity gives him terrific leverage on offensive linemen, and he has abnormally quick feet that give him a powder keg burst.
Enough said

I could deal with that as my DT...

 

[nidan]

Originally posted by BEERZ
I was way down on D.Johnson before this year. But He has show ALOT of improvment this year.

You know why, he works his butt off in practice

 

[earthsci]

Originally posted by D-Dogg
And no pass rush can get to the qb if receivers are open within 2 seconds. NONE.

Yep. Another person for consideration is Joey Thomas from Montana State. 6'2" 188lbs. A good pick up in the fourth round. Or late third if we have a pick there.

I'm pretty overboard about this but our main focus in the off season should be defensive backfield. Try and pick up a FA DL but, main focus on DBs. If you can trust your DBs more, you can blitz more.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Originally posted by earthsci
Yep. Another person for consideration is Joey Thomas from Montana State. 6'2" 188lbs. A good pick up in the fourth round. Or late third if we have a pick there.

I'm pretty overboard about this but our main focus in the off season should be defensive backfield. Try and pick up a FA DL but, main focus on DBs. If you can trust your DBs more, you can blitz more.

Better FA CB's out there.

 

[earthsci]

Originally posted by swd1974
Better FA CB's out there.

If we could get one, great. I think that the real good CBs are going to get tagged. The ones that do hit the market are going to be hot commodities. DL always get cut in the offseason so there will be alot more than what is on FA lists. You can count shut down corners one one hand. Both hands and both feet wouldn't be enough for great DLinemen.

 

[D-Dogg]

Originally posted by earthsci
If you can trust your DBs more, you can blitz more.

You can sucessfully blitz more too.

 

[Goldfield]

Originally posted by D-Dogg
And no pass rush can get to the qb if receivers are open within 2 seconds. NONE.

It goes both ways.

We need STUD corners who will allow our average line to get penetration.

Even if we had Stud DL, our corners are so crap that the pressure wouldn't matter. Three step, throw, completion. Repeat as necessary. I think our DL is sufficient (add to it in FA to bring in a difference maker) but our corners are seriously lacking.

We should grab a CB in FA if we can, and our second pick overall should be a CB (assuming we don't trade down). Hell, Vasher may even be available then...doubtful but dang...there are a lot of good CBs in this draft in rounds one and early 2. We would get an average to sub par CB in round 3, IMO.

Our Line is not even close to average... Our DB's are alot better than our Line is.

The most important part of both Offense and Defense is the LINE.


The LINE makes the other look better than they are. A QB without a line struggles, A RB without a LINE struggles.

The same goes for the defensive backfield. Improving the LINE will raise the level of play for the rest of that side of the ball.

 

[D-Dogg]

Originally posted by BEERZ
Our Line is not even close to average... Our DB's are alot better than our Line is.

...


The same goes for the defensive backfield. Improving the LINE will raise the level of play for the rest of that side of the ball.

I disagree. Our line is not below average...it is average. Very average. Actually, it's pretty good against the run, but it gets no pressure. And when it does get pressure, it's always a half a step away from a sack.

Our corners are atrocious. They are by far the weakest link on this team..by far. We had two games where people beat us with the run, and even one of those the pass was used to set up the big runs (49ers). Throughout the rest of the season, our corners were played with like a tijuanna ho. Hard and quick, they got toasted repeatedly. How in the world do you get pressure on the qb when your corners can't cover a receiver for 5 strides?

If we had solid corners, you'd realize that our D-Line isn't all that bad...oh, and also if Joe Greene wasn't coaching them. I think the firings snaring him was the best thing to happen to this team. Bring me 2 solid CBs and our defense will NOT surrender the most points in the league...

 

[CaptTurbo]

Originally posted by D-Dogg

If we had solid corners, you'd realize that our D-Line isn't all that bad...oh, and also if Joe Greene wasn't coaching them. I think the firings snaring him was the best thing to happen to this team. Bring me 2 solid CBs and our defense will NOT surrender the most points in the league...

No one can cover for 8 seconds. No one. Gotta get the QB.

 

[Cardiac]

If you have solid cover corners then the blitz can be used more often and effectively. D-Dogg has this right.

We all wanted to see more blitzes but the fact is that the team often got burnt on big plays when this happened. If you have very good cover CB's then they can hold up until the blitz gets to the QB.

Let's also look at what unit has the most upside.

DL - Pace, King, Bryant, Bell, KVB. Of course you can argue that some of these players have proven they can't generate a pass rush but everyone should agree that Pace and King should be given more time.

CB- Hill, Barrett and Starks. Starks is the only proven cover CB in this group and he is always injured as a Card.

This team needs an upgrade at CB in the worst way. I think we could all live with Hill and Barrett as the 3rd and 4th CB's. There just isn't anyone on this current unit has the same potential to get better as there is on the DL.

 

[Cardiac]

double post

 

[D-Dogg]

Originally posted by swd1974
No one can cover for 8 seconds. No one. Gotta get the QB.

Noone is asking them to. I'm asking them to cover for 4-6 seconds.

No one can get a pass rush in 2 seconds. No one. Gotta cover those receivers long enough for the D-line to make a freaking move.

We could go back and forth on this for days.

Here's a test...watch some tape and note how many times, when we DID get a pass rush going, that the ball left the qb's hands a step or two before the defender got to him. Give me a corner that will give you 2 more seconds on the pass rush, and I'll show you average D-Lineman with good sack totals.

 

[earthsci]

I agree with the CB arguement. That being said, I wouldn't be too pissed if we ended up with Tommy Harris or Vince Wilfolk. Then draft CBs for the rest of the day and the next.

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by earthsci
I agree with the CB arguement. That being said, I wouldn't be too pissed if we ended up with Tommy Harris or Vince Wilfolk. Then draft CBs for the rest of the day and the next.

This plan can work but this team has to get at least a decent CB in FA. Even if they spend all of their draft picks on DB's they need a proven NFL CB.

swd - Think about the Eagles defense since I know you are very familiar with them. Who on the D-line is a sack artist? This team gets a ton of sacks and pressures because their CB's can cover until the blitz gets to the QB.

 

[earthsci]

Originally posted by Cardiac
This plan can work but this team has to get at least a decent CB in FA. Even if they spend all of their draft picks on DB's they need a proven NFL CB.

I'm just operating under the premise that we won't land a quality FA CB. If we do, right on. CBs are a real hot commodity. Look at how much money got thrown at Dre Bly so quickly last year.

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by earthsci


I'm just operating under the premise that we won't land a quality FA CB. If we do, right on. CBs are a real hot commodity. Look at how much money got thrown at Dre Bly so quickly last year.

As it turned out Dre Bly was a big help to the Lions. He is over paid but he was worth the money to the Lions. The Cards should have a shot at Vincent or Taylor, Winfield, Surtain, Bryant... They may even have a shot at Woodson, Bailey or McAlister.

I will be called crazy for this but maybe the team should throw a transition tag on Barrett. In the right system he could be a valued commodity. Also the new coaching staff may feel they can improve his play.

I think there are a great deal more quality CB's on the market this year then last year as well.

 

[D-Dogg]

Originally posted by earthsci
I agree with the CB arguement. That being said, I wouldn't be too pissed if we ended up with Tommy Harris or Vince Wilfolk. Then draft CBs for the rest of the day and the next.

I agree on this one...I don't think Hall is a 3rd overall pick. I think Harris or Wilfork would be. If we traded down, however, I'd take two CBS. Hall should be had around pick 8 or 9, I'd hope.

But grabbing Harris or Wilfork at 3, and then coming back with Vasher (pipe dream) or another solid CB with the 2nd round pick, that would be a coup. Top that off with a CB in free agency and you have yourself a damn fine offseason in those three moves alone.

 

[earthsci]

Originally posted by D-Dogg
I agree on this one...I don't think Hall is a 3rd overall pick. I think Harris or Wilfork would be. If we traded down, however, I'd take two CBS. Hall should be had around pick 8 or 9, I'd hope.

But grabbing Harris or Wilfork at 3, and then coming back with Vasher (pipe dream) or another solid CB with the 2nd round pick, that would be a coup. Top that off with a CB in free agency and you have yourself a damn fine offseason in those three moves alone.

Eventually I'll shut up about this - Joey Thomas, CB, Montana State. Draft him in the late third or early fourth round. This kid will play like a first rounder.

 

[D-Dogg]

Originally posted by earthsci
Eventually I'll shut up about this - Joey Thomas, CB, Montana State. Draft him in the late third or early fourth round. This kid will play like a first rounder.

This mock draft has him going in the late 2nd round:

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/2004DRAFT/computerdraft.htm


50th overall.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by earthsci
Eventually I'll shut up about this - Joey Thomas, CB, Montana State. Draft him in the late third or early fourth round. This kid will play like a first rounder.

I like his height, but I'd have to SEE him. 188 is way, way light for a CB in the NFL. I know that you have to use a Top 3 pick to get one, but I wouldn't draft a corner in the first round or top of the second unless he's 6'1" or above, 210 or above, and runs no less than a 4.2, and has good hip roll.

High-round corners are a risky, risky proposition, at best, and the elite ones are few and far between. You can live with simply above-average corners (the Bucs seem to year after year), and those can be found much later in the draft.

 

[earthsci]

Originally posted by kerouac9
...and the elite ones are few and far between. You can live with simply above-average corners (the Bucs seem to year after year), and those can be found much later in the draft.

Very true. We haven't been able to do this since Aeneas. By the way, I also like the bigger DBs (who doesn't) but Terrance Newman played very nicely this year.

 

[john h]

Originally posted by Chainthroer
BEERZ – To answer your original question, Vince Wilfork, DT Miami-Fla, is probably the most dominating DT in this year’s draft. He has real speed (fast off the ball & quick penetration); plays low to the ground and manhandles OLs. Weakness is weight & is only 6’2”– is about 355 and cannot gain any more; needs to stay in the area of 345; could tire in a 16 game schedule; would probably have to be played with backup coming in sporadically to keep him from wearing out.
Next best is Tommy Harris from Oklahoma. Has gotten a lot of hype, but has speed and penetration ability too. His weakness is not enough weight – i.e., about 285 and should be bigger (about 300 lbs) as a DT; but could also be used as a DE.
I think we do need a top grade DT. We simply have not penetrated the OL to get to QBs up the middle. We can get a quality CB in 2nd round or even third round.

I think Tommy Harris is the best DT out there. He won the Lombardi award as the best and he is a force on perhaps the best defensive team in the nation. He and Wilfork will go high and I could live with either if we do not take a QB. The DT position can make the DE and CB look a lot better if he is top notch and these two guys will be starters in the NFL next year.

 

[Rats]

Could Gamble or Vasher be had with our 2nd pick? We could take care of some serious needs with Wilfork 1 and Gamble 2 or Harris 1 and Vasher 2.

 

[JHall]

Best motor: Lavalais, LSU

Most athletic: Sopoago, Hawaii

Best prospect: Harris, Oklahoma

 

[Loyal Card 17]

kings of cards.

you ask for people opinions, and then you tell them they don't know what they are talking about. your an absolute moron. dessert or desert. who gives a crap. so tell me oh great one. who the best defensive lineman in the draft, oh great scout guru. do you look at mel kiper jr. draft report, or do go around the all the colleges watching every single player who going to enter the draft. if weight is your biggest concern on a player then your a bigger moron than i gave you credit for.