Who is tired with the same Whiz BS during Post game presser??

[Duckjake]

Same mistake happens, player is benched, the replacement sucks, you lose the game, other players snicker at you and start counting down the days until you are fired.

That is exactly why coaching the personnel in the NFL is so tough. There just aren't very many people on the planet who can play that game at a high level.

Just look at how poor the play gets in preseason when the guys third and fourth on the depth get in the game. All guys who were relatively successful college players.

In college you have 4 different groups of guys who can all play. If the Senior isn't cutting it there's usually a Jr. or Soph or Redshirt Frosh ready to take his place.

Not in the NFL.

 

[conraddobler]

That is exactly why coaching the personnel in the NFL is so tough. There just aren't very many people on the planet who can play that game at a high level.

Just look at how poor the play gets in preseason when the guys third and fourth on the depth get in the game. All guys who were relatively successful college players.

In college you have 4 different groups of guys who can all play. If the Senior isn't cutting it there's usually a Jr. or Soph or Redshirt Frosh ready to take his place.

Not in the NFL.

This explains some of what Whiz does, not all but it's the same for any HC in the NFL, it's just an insanely hard gig in the first place, which is why I want a major league GM, and major league OC's and DC's, you need those to help out a guy like Whiz, he can't do it all even if he is sure he can.

Mostly he should be nearly shut out of personell decisions, he can name game day starters that's as far as I'd go.

As a GM if you agree with the coach you can help him discipline a player, you can threaten to trade him to Cleveland or something.

That's about the extent of things you can do in the NFL, and really you have to win over the players with your X's and O's more than anything the rah rah stuff dosen't work unless you're on the level of Lombardi or something.

Why does Whiz stick Deuce in the dog house on the one hand and let Levi continue to start?

 

[Duckjake]

That's why managing baseball is so much easier when it comes to personnel. If a guy isn't listening or producing or hustling there's usually a young kid down at AA who is chomping at the bit to take his place without a huge drop off in talent. And its much easier to trade the guy to Cleveland.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm with you. How about a little responsibility? How about not sounding like a jackass without a clue? How about 'we really should have stuck with the no-huddle, because it was working'? How about 'we need to evaluate our personnel this week, because I don't feel all of our players were putting in an acceptable performance'?

This team has no sense of responsibility. The players see that the coaches can just make all the mistakes that they make, over and over, not correct them, and not have anything happen about it. The players do the same stupid things over and over again, and they don't get demoted for it. Why bother even trying to correct those little mistakes if they'll constantly be let off the hook by their coach? Baffles the mind.

You have to get a first down to start the no huddle offense, and we couldn't convert 3rd and 1 several times.

 

[Stout]

You have to get a first down to start the no huddle offense, and we couldn't convert 3rd and 1 several times.

??? Unless there's some rule that you have to play and wait until you get a first down to start playing no-huddle, then you just crapped the bed with your post. What's wrong with walking right up to the line on first down without a huddle, starting as soon as the ball is spotted and snapping early, and proceeding to play each down without a huddle? Duh, that's the no huddle, without having to get a first down! In fact, in effective no-huddle offenses (see ours, first half), it is far, far easier to get first downs, because the defense is off balance.

Sorry to rain on your parade, CKW

 

[desertdawg]

You have to get a first down to start the no huddle offense, and we couldn't convert 3rd and 1 several times.

??? Unless there's some rule that you have to play and wait until you get a first down to start playing no-huddle, then you just crapped the bed with your post. What's wrong with walking right up to the line on first down without a huddle, starting as soon as the ball is spotted and snapping early, and proceeding to play each down without a huddle? Duh, that's the no huddle, without having to get a first down! In fact, in effective no-huddle offenses (see ours, first half), it is far, far easier to get first downs, because the defense is off balance.

Sorry to rain on your parade, CKW

good stuff

 

[mojorizen7]

It could be worse...

 

[RugbyMuffin]

It could be worse...

I will always say THAT is the best Jim Mora sound clip. The playoffs sound bite is the most famous.

But that above, that is gold.

 

[Chopper0080]

??? Unless there's some rule that you have to play and wait until you get a first down to start playing no-huddle, then you just crapped the bed with your post. What's wrong with walking right up to the line on first down without a huddle, starting as soon as the ball is spotted and snapping early, and proceeding to play each down without a huddle? Duh, that's the no huddle, without having to get a first down! In fact, in effective no-huddle offenses (see ours, first half), it is far, far easier to get first downs, because the defense is off balance.

Sorry to rain on your parade, CKW

The problem is that you are not getting the advantage of preventing the defense from substituting, or the advantage of the defense being tired.

The purpose of the no huddle is to get the defenses' nickel package on the field and then keep it on the field. This gives the offense the advantage because nickel personnel is normally smaller and it gives the offense a favorable run matchup. Also, as he plays continue, the defensive line wears down due to the continuous pass rush and provides the offense with a further advantage.

You can run on the field with your base personnel on first down at the change of the possession, but the defense will be ready, rested and at the top of their game to stop you. More than that, you lose the size advantage vs. the defenses front 7, and you are limited in your ability to spread the field.

To run the no huddle after a normal possession change is just stupid because you are limiting your play selection without any matchup advantage.

 

[Stout]

The problem is that you are not getting the advantage of preventing the defense from substituting, or the advantage of the defense being tired.

The purpose of the no huddle is to get the defenses' nickel package on the field and then keep it on the field. This gives the offense the advantage because nickel personnel is normally smaller and it gives the offense a favorable run matchup. Also, as he plays continue, the defensive line wears down due to the continuous pass rush and provides the offense with a further advantage.

You can run on the field with your base personnel on first down at the change of the possession, but the defense will be ready, rested and at the top of their game to stop you. More than that, you lose the size advantage vs. the defenses front 7, and you are limited in your ability to spread the field.

To run the no huddle after a normal possession change is just stupid because you are limiting your play selection without any matchup advantage.

Not as smart as you think you are, chief, and your one-sided analysis is just stupid, to use your words, because you only look at one side of the coin. You use the no huddle to create mismatches, yes, but the sole purpose isn't to wait until you get the defense's nickle package on. Why you assume that is the sole reason is beyond me. Getting the defense's base package on the field when you have a passing set is just as advantageous. They're set up to defend the run mainly, or to stop the pass, but not nearly as well as in the nickel or dime package. You're out there to throw all over them.

It's all about matchups, and it isn't about one single, narrowminded type of matchup. You're thinking just like CKW has been thinking: one-dimensional and inside the box. Why you'd want to limit the use of the no-huddle is beyond me.

 

[Duckjake]

The purpose of the no huddle is to get the defenses' nickel package on the field and then keep it on the field. This gives the offense the advantage because nickel personnel is normally smaller and it gives the offense a favorable run matchup

So why in the hell are the Cards using their nickel package as their base defense?

I wish somebody could find out from the team what their reasoning is for it.

I remember last season watching Texas play Wyoming and UT was in their nickel package from the opening snap. Nickel package vs Wyoming!!!

I said right then it was going to be a long season for the Longhorns. And I was right.

 

[Chopper0080]

Not as smart as you think you are, chief, and your one-sided analysis is just stupid, to use your words, because you only look at one side of the coin. You use the no huddle to create mismatches, yes, but the sole purpose isn't to wait until you get the defense's nickle package on. Why you assume that is the sole reason is beyond me. Getting the defense's base package on the field when you have a passing set is just as advantageous. They're set up to defend the run mainly, or to stop the pass, but not nearly as well as in the nickel or dime package. You're out there to throw all over them.

It's all about matchups, and it isn't about one single, narrowminded type of matchup. You're thinking just like CKW has been thinking: one-dimensional and inside the box. Why you'd want to limit the use of the no-huddle is beyond me.

So you want to go no huddle using either 2 TEs or a TE and A FB. That is stupid because they will wear out too fast. Also Tes and FBs aren't as proficient at catching the ball as Wrs.

And if you start your series with your spread package the defense will come out in their nickel defense which limits your advantage.

 

[mojorizen7]

I will always say THAT is the best Jim Mora sound clip. The playoffs sound bite is the most famous.

But that above, that is gold.

"Everytime they got the ball they went down and got points."

 

[rednek31]

If I remember correctly didn't p manning and the colts start every game with the no huddle and run it most all of the game?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

If I remember correctly didn't p manning and the colts start every game with the no huddle and run it most all of the game?

Yep.

This is football. You do what ever works, and keep doing it until they stop you.

And if you are as pig headed, stubborn as me, then until they stop you two times in a row.

You know ? Like rolling your QB out to his right, and running a post/curl route to the sideline all the way down the field.

 

[Stout]

So you want to go no huddle using either 2 TEs or a TE and A FB. That is stupid because they will wear out too fast. Also Tes and FBs aren't as proficient at catching the ball as Wrs.

And if you start your series with your spread package the defense will come out in their nickel defense which limits your advantage.

You go no huddle using whoever you want. You get their nickle on the field, then you run the ball--using quick draws if you must. You get their base defense on the field, you pass them to death, using play-action, and then run when you feel like changing it up. Or you do it the opposite way. If your offense is clicking, it DOES NOT MATTER. You WILL wear the defense down and either force 'em to call a TO, fake an injury, or you march down the field and score. IF your offense is clicking, as ours clearly was.

Like I said, you must be CKW because, though we SAW IT LIVE, saw how effective the no huddle was when they first stepped on the field for the drive, he went away from it, and you keep saying it isn't possible. I guess Sam Wyche (sp?), Peyton Manning, and all the other no-huddle gurus are just idiots that didn't understand that they shouldn't be thriving by running the no huddle from the first play of the series.

If I remember correctly didn't p manning and the colts start every game with the no huddle and run it most all of the game?

Thank you.

Yep.

This is football. You do what ever works, and keep doing it until they stop you.

Exactly.

 

[JeffGollin]

If I remember correctly didn't p manning and the colts start every game with the no huddle and run it most all of the game?

Isn't an important key to success in the no-huddle that everyone on the field is on the same page - so that (without thinking) every player can automatically anticipate if and when plays will be changed, routes altered etc.?

To accomplish this, doesn't most or all of the offensive playbook need to be installed?

How much time should an offense - lacking the necessary reps due to the lockout - need to become really proficient at executing the no-huddle?

My point - Manning has had several seasons on the same team, under the same coach, OC etc. to run the no-huddle to perfection. We've had 4 preseason games and 3 regular season games under Kevin Kolb.

Fair comparison? Or does KK and his surrounding cast need a little more time to get where the Colts under Manning are?

 

[rednek31]

Isn't an important key to success in the no-huddle that everyone on the field is on the same page - so that (without thinking) every player can automatically anticipate if and when plays will be changed, routes altered etc.?

To accomplish this, doesn't most or all of the offensive playbook need to be installed?

How much time should an offense - lacking the necessary reps due to the lockout - need to become really proficient at executing the no-huddle?

My point - Manning has had several seasons on the same team, under the same coach, OC etc. to run the no-huddle to perfection. We've had 4 preseason games and 3 regular season games under Kevin Kolb.

Fair comparison? Or does KK and his surrounding cast need a little more time to get where the Colts under Manning are?

With the limitrd time that the offence has had together I think most people agree that the no huddle was working correct? So why stop doing it? Why not come back to it even with the limited knowledge of the offence that Kolb has and the no reps and such it was working. I see no reason to go away from something when it is working.

I live in Illinois and grew up about 100 miles south west of Chicago so all I heard growing up was about the bears but yet I am both a Cardinal Football fan and Cardinal Baseball fan. I don't remember the bears ever stop using walter payton. with the logic that I have seen walter payton undewr this coach would never of had a 1000 yard rushing season JMO.

 

[RedViper]

If I thought it would help if he were brutally honest, I'd want to hear something like: "At best this team may still be able to complete in this craphole division. Our Oline isn't good enough to grind out the running game or provide decent pass protection. We'll continue to pay for years and years for drafting Levi Brown, he'll never be good enough, its apparent every time we take the field. Kolb is showing serious flaws, it looks like he won't be able to come through in the clutch. Its obvious we needed a legitimate number two wideout Management was too cheap to get one, we'll pay for that all year. We can barely ever get a play in on time so we can't really stick with a no huddle without getting burned. Defense is going to be a mess all year. If they could tackle worth a darn, TJack never would have gotten into the endzone. Nevertheless this game is probably their high water mark. These are your 2011 Cardinals.

The only thing that is helpful however is to act like they have the pieces in place to win, even if its not true, in the hopes the players will believe in the system and overachieve. I don't think it makes any sense to relay any other message in these press conferences.

 

[Duckjake]

If I thought it would help if he were brutally honest, I'd want to hear something like: "At best this team may still be able to complete in this craphole division. Our Oline isn't good enough to grind out the running game or provide decent pass protection. We'll continue to pay for years and years for drafting Levi Brown, he'll never be good enough, its apparent every time we take the field. Kolb is showing serious flaws, it looks like he won't be able to come through in the clutch. Its obvious we needed a legitimate number two wideout Management was too cheap to get one, we'll pay for that all year. We can barely ever get a play in on time so we can't really stick with a no huddle without getting burned. Defense is going to be a mess all year. If they could tackle worth a darn, TJack never would have gotten into the endzone. Nevertheless this game is probably their high water mark. These are your 2011 Cardinals.

The only thing that is helpful however is to act like they have the pieces in place to win, even if its not true, in the hopes the players will believe in the system and overachieve. I don't think it makes any sense to relay any other message in these press conferences.

This is really the only thing I disagree with. Management may not be skilled enough to get a decent #2 WR to Arizona but not too cheap to do so.

 

[RedViper]

This is really the only thing I disagree with. Management may not be skilled enough to get a decent #2 WR to Arizona but not too cheap to do so.

Your probably right. I'm thinking of the play were Roberts couldn't hold on to that sideline pass at the end, but I'm not totally sure who they could have brought in anyway. The only guy I heard of was Edwards who isn't doing a darn thing in SF.

 

[conraddobler]

The no huddle is a tool, and if you pull out a tool out of your tool belt and it works it's hard to explain why you'd stop.

You can come up with examples though, in general you might be able to use a pliers to turn a bolt just fine but if you're stripping off the edges of the bolt you might want to look for another tool.

The no huddle requires management to assess on the fly if it's worth the costs and if the damage it's doing to you is more than the damage it's doing to your opponent both right now and in terms of later on in the game, that's why Whiz did what he did, and you can agree or disagree with it but that's the reality of the no huddle.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is really the only thing I disagree with. Management may not be skilled enough to get a decent #2 WR to Arizona but not too cheap to do so.

not sure I completely agree with this. we're still sitting on 9 million bones of cap space and there were a plethora of WRs with more experience/success that were on the market this season. we couldn't land ONE of them? either that says we're cheap or we were really happy with what we had... neither one of those scenarios makes me very happy considering how blatant of a need it still looks like... and did look like to most people during the off-season.

 

[kerouac9]

not sure I completely agree with this. we're still sitting on 9 million bones of cap space and there were a plethora of WRs with more experience/success that were on the market this season. we couldn't land ONE of them? either that says we're cheap or we were really happy with what we had... neither one of those scenarios makes me very happy considering how blatant of a need it still looks like... and did look like to most people during the off-season.

Who is Andre Johnson's #2 WR? Reggie Wayne's? Hakeem Nicks's? Calvin Johnson's? Greg Jennings's? Santonio Holmes's? Mike Wallace's? Steve Smith's? Kenny Britt's? Heck, Dewayne Bowe's?

I get what people are saying saying they want more talent at the WR position, but when teams have a great #1 WR, they're not investing even more money at a position that is going to get 6 looks a game or less. They fill out the roster with guys who can get open and catch the ball against the single coverage they see literally every down. That's the state of the NFL today, and unlike the lack of running game, I don't really have a problem with it.

Andre Roberts has 16 targets through 3 games, and 9 receptions (to go with 2 drops, IIRC). Todd Heap has 13. It's not like Roberts isn't getting the job done with chances; he's not getting the chances to be effective.

The design of the offense right now is that Kolb looks at Fitz, then a TE, and then he's looking to dump off the ball to a RB. Part of it is that he doesn't have the time to get to his third real option in the passing game; part of the problem is that he's not looking for it because he's cutting off the half of the field that Fitz isn't on when he rolls out.

Andre Roberts and Early Doucet are running open downfield at times, but Kolb isn't finding them. The problem isn't a talent one; it's a delivery issue. The NFL is catching up to Kevin Kolb pretty quickly--it eventually catches up to everyone. He has to open up his own opportunities by finding his 2nd and 3rd wideouts more regularly to force teams into zone coverages instead of bracketing Fitz and Heap.

 

[conraddobler]

Who is Andre Johnson's #2 WR? Reggie Wayne's? Hakeem Nicks's? Calvin Johnson's? Greg Jennings's? Santonio Holmes's? Mike Wallace's? Steve Smith's? Kenny Britt's? Heck, Dewayne Bowe's?

I get what people are saying saying they want more talent at the WR position, but when teams have a great #1 WR, they're not investing even more money at a position that is going to get 6 looks a game or less. They fill out the roster with guys who can get open and catch the ball against the single coverage they see literally every down. That's the state of the NFL today, and unlike the lack of running game, I don't really have a problem with it.

Andre Roberts has 16 targets through 3 games, and 9 receptions (to go with 2 drops, IIRC). Todd Heap has 13. It's not like Roberts isn't getting the job done with chances; he's not getting the chances to be effective.

The design of the offense right now is that Kolb looks at Fitz, then a TE, and then he's looking to dump off the ball to a RB. Part of it is that he doesn't have the time to get to his third real option in the passing game; part of the problem is that he's not looking for it because he's cutting off the half of the field that Fitz isn't on when he rolls out.

Andre Roberts and Early Doucet are running open downfield at times, but Kolb isn't finding them. The problem isn't a talent one; it's a delivery issue. The NFL is catching up to Kevin Kolb pretty quickly--it eventually catches up to everyone. He has to open up his own opportunities by finding his 2nd and 3rd wideouts more regularly to force teams into zone coverages instead of bracketing Fitz and Heap.

That's a very astute observation.

A lot does fall on Kolb's shoulders, it's all about how you look at it, no matter what play is called there's reads he has to make, hot routes, decisions that he has to make which ultimately effect the play.

This is as I've pointed out many times, complicated by the fact that he's only had so much time with these guys.

I just don't see how we ever expected someone could come in on short notice with very little work within the offense or with the players and be that good.

So all I look for from here on is progress, and that too can be misleading, because as you said as fast as he's catching on to our players, the rest of the NFL is catching on to how he's playing within our offense.

It's not a race he's likely to win a lot this year.

Now next year after a full camp and offseason with these players I'd expect a quantum leap in his execution and frankly from what I've seen so far when I factor in all he's going through, I'm happy with him, he's exceeded my expectations.

He's better than DA by a mile, but you aren't going to see probowl consistent performance out of him this year IMO, he's got too much to deal with.