Who starts at QB game 1?

[Vacard]

Mahommes, the qb that was snagged before us, sat out for the year and looked good during the last game. I suspect he’ll be second string behind Bradford and will go in if Bradford gets hurt. I pray for our o-line

 

[GuernseyCard]

A lot of the posts are looking at Bradford as 'point man' on patrol in order to keep the precious rookie underwraps and on the bench so he can 'sit and learn.'

Where are all those who demanded a QBOTF in this draft---but are silent against the opinion of those who want to keep Rosen on the bench?

You got a QBOTF---why aren't you demanding that he play starting with Game 1? Are you happy with a CBHOTF (Clip Board Holder of the Future?) The $$$ in Bradford and Glennon is no longer relevant the moment the Cards turned in Rosen's name on their draft card.

Got to get the learning curve and all the rookie mistakes and Ints and bad decisions out of the way. They will happen in Game 5 if that is his first start as sure as they will happen if Game 1 is his first start. Getting Bradford's legs ripped off first is not going to change that learning curve for Rosen. Swallow the losses. It's what needs to happen when you demand a QBOTF.

The Cards have no intention of throwing away a season so Rosen can get the kinks out. He'll get the job when he's deemed ready, not as a result of artificial pressure from pundits or fans. Sitting didn't hurt Palmer, Rodgers and others while being thrown to the wolves has certainly hurt QBs like Carr with the Texans, Bradford with the RAMS, Couch with the BROWNS, etc., etc. With both Bradford and Glennon we're actually in better shape than most who've transitioned to their QBOF.

Record, interestingly, may not be the decider as to when Rosen is deemed ready. The Giants were 7-3 with Warner when they moved to Manning.

 

[JeffGollin]

Bradford is our starting QB if healthy. Case closed.

Agree. But any changes after that will be up to the Injury Gods, W&L's and how each QB performs as the season unfolds.

The combo of Badford and Rosen gives Wilks the luxury of allowing things to unfold naturally and "letting the season come to them."

 

[daves]

Gimme, you are sure putting up a lot of straw men and false dichotomies to make your point.

Does a QBOTF mean he is not going to play until WAY into the future . . . in some galaxy far, far away. The future is NOW, not 2019. We play in 2018. That 1st round pick has got to help us win NOW.

Uh no, QBOTF means EXACTLY Quarterback of the FUTURE, not "WAY into the future", not "in some galaxy far, far away", but also not NOW. The FUTURE is exactly NOT now. The 1st round pick does NOT have to help the Cardinals win NOW. It's almost like you're being deliberately obtuse here.

When did Rosen suddenly turn into fragile and precious china? [....] How is that going to increase his confidence???

The idea behind delaying a QB's first start is to let him learn ALL the things a pro QB needs to learn - not just the playbook but the practice routines, how to study film, the way NFL defenses adjust, how and when to audible, etc. When a team has no legitimate alternative than to start a rookie in game 1, the rookie needs to learn all of those things, AND adjust to NFL game speed, all at the same time. The Cardinals have a rare luxury in having a former #1 overall draft pick with 8 seasons of experience, who has already learned how to be a pro as well as learning many different playbooks. As long as Bradford is healthy, he gives the Cardinals the option of letting Rosen get up to speed on all the other things he needs to learn, BEFORE he has to demonstrate it at NFL speed vs. NFL defenses. Sure, the day will come when Rosen is ready for that, and MAYBE it will even be game 1 - but there's no urgency to force the issue.

With a rook QB, Cards will have to anticipate and accept that he will blow some games, make mistakes that cost us, blow our chances for a year. . . or two. It has to start sometime, sooner rather than later.

Why should the team, the fans, and the veteran players have to "accept" blowing some games or even the team's chances for the entire year, when that's not necessary? They have the luxury of letting Bradford start and deciding when's the best time to transition to Rosen (unless injury forces the issue). But an arbitrary demand to start in game 1 should not force the issue.

The surrounding team will always have issues and questions.

Sure, every team in the league will suffer attrition during the year. But with the OL especially, learning a new offense, it takes time for them to gel and reach maximum efficiency as a unit. They can benefit from having an experienced QB helping them get up to speed. Why complicate things with everyone learning at the same time, and place a QBOF at risk, rather than placing a bridge QB at risk?

If you don't improve the roster in support of Bradford/Glennon, you got to play to guy you took instead. Rosen indicates (to me at least) that SK is changing gears and not going to plug a vet QB in for the long haul---so why the hesitation to play him? Bradford is just a bridge at this point---might as well cross over it beginning with Game 1.

This is a bunch of non-sequiturs. Nothing in this paragraph implies any justification for starting Rosen immediately.

I'm not calling for Rosen to be destroyed---I'm wondering why the QBOTF is not being allowed to be the QBOTF.

Again, it's as though you're deliberately forgetting the meaning of "FUTURE". Not playing game 1 is exactly BEING the QBOF.

Your #1 pick in the draft that cost a #3 and a #5 to obtain and who left a major need unfilled---has to earn his keep sooner rather than later. If you wanted him---put him in the game. There's no dancing around it by saying you're OK with what the Cards decide on when to play Rosen. If you went all in for him to get drafted, you can't be happy if he's forced to sit and learn.

More non-sequiturs. People who wanted Rosen as the QBOF can be perfectly happy letting the Cardinals decide when it's the best time for him to transition into the starting role. They can be perfectly happy if he's afforded the OPPORTUNITY to sit an learn.

As to the objection that you don't put a rook QB on the field with a new O----guess what: Every single rook QB is stepping on the field with a new O and new teammates. Cards have vet players along their OL. If any group is going to be able to put it together it will be the vets.

Yes, but not every O is stepping on the field with a new QB. The OL will have a much easier time learning and gelling together with a steady vet at QB.

We can't wait for them to gel---that is an organic learning process that has to include the QB they are supposed to gel with. If they play with Bradford until he is sacrificed, their learning curve to play together has been with Bradford, not with Rosen.

Rosen and Bradford have similar styles, so there should be no difficulty for the OL to transition from protecting Bradford to protecting Rosen, once they've gelled. But it will be much easier on both the OL and the QB if they only have to worry about one "variable" at a time. First learn the O and gel with a vet QB, then add a rookie QB into the mix.

Consider Wentz, Watson, Kizer from last year. Is our guy Rosen at least as competent or as good as those three? They all played in Game 1: Watson in for Savage in a loss, Wentz beat Washington, Kizer in a close L to Steelers 21-18.

Every player is different. Rosen may be as ready as any of them, or more - but that doesn't mean it's necessarily a good thing for him to be put in a starting role in game 1. BTW, Wentz was in his second year in 2017, Watson did NOT start and when he replaced the injured Savage he actually managed a lower passer rating (60), and Kizer began an 0-16 campaign which he ended with a 60 passer rating. Ulch.

I honestly don't get the reluctance (fear?) on playing our new QB.

I honestly don't get why you're casting it as reluctance or fear, rather than prudence.

He may succeed or he may crash and burn. We just got to find out, sooner rather than later.

No, they don't "got to find out, sooner". It's perfectly fine for them to find out later. Why do you think they "got to find out, sooner"? You have not once justified that stance.

It's like buying a new car and putting it in the garage and never taking it out for a spin---there's gravel on the road that may put a nick in the paint, there's a pigeon in the tree that is going to drop some birdie doo on the hood, some jerk at Wal-Mart is going to bang against the car with a shopping cart, yada-yada-yada.[/QUOTE]

No, it's not like that at all. Cars don't nee to learn things.

How do you know that Rosen will be the starting QB in 2019? You really don't.

What happens if Bradford isn't sacrificed but plays like he did in his first game last year with the Vikes. Say a KW miracle occurs and Bradford gets us deep into the playoffs. Do you still toss him overboard for a guy that hasn't played---do you have the same confidence in Rosen that Reid has in Mahomes to discard Alex Smith?

What a great luxury that would be to have! Imagine the trade value Bradford would have. Plus in that year, the Cardinals would have a MUCH better idea of whether Rosen has more upside than even a miracle Bradford. One or the other would have great trade value. So in this scenario, (a) the Cardinals make a deep playoff run, and (b) they could trade either QB for great value. In your "preferred" scenario, the Cardinals let Bradford sit on the bench all year and don't pick up his option next year, and they "sacrifice" a season to losing because "they got to!"[/QUOTE]

Bottom line: If Rosen is so pro-ready that the coaching staff thinks he'll benefit from starting game 1 AND that he'll give the team close to the same chance of winning as Bradford, by all means, put him in! But in the more likely event that he could benefit from continuing to get up to speed on ALL of the things a pro QB needs to learn before being forced to perform at NFL speed, AND Bradford gives the the team a better chance of winning while the vets learn the offense without having to support and protect a rookie QB, then let him sit. The vets can easily adjust to the rookie later once they've got everything else under their belts.

I trust the staff to decide when is the OPTIMAL time for Rosen to start, balancing all considerations, rather than arbitrarily deciding he has to start game 1 because, well, he's just "got to!"

...dave

 

[Gandhi]

He gets $15m + incentives. If he sits the bench, he'll never reach his incentives and get $15m. How was Keim supposed to know we might get Rosen? It was a crap shoot and we got lucky. Bradford at $15M is cheap insurance.

This needs to be repeated and highlighted. The Cardinals did not necessarily pay 20 million to Bradford. They did pay ten million and gave him a base salary of five million. The last five million are tied to playing time, and if Rosen starts, well then Bradford doesn’t get a penny of those money. Look around the league and you will see how cheap that is for a potential starting quarterback.

Even if they did trade him, the cap hit would be low.

I don’t think it’s fair that many criticize Keim for things that are simply not true. I must say that I think it happens a bit too often.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Cards have no intention of throwing away a season so Rosen can get the kinks out. He'll get the job when he's deemed ready, not as a result of artificial pressure from pundits or fans. Sitting didn't hurt Palmer, Rodgers and others while being thrown to the wolves has certainly hurt QBs like Carr with the Texans, Bradford with the RAMS, Couch with the BROWNS, etc., etc. With both Bradford and Glennon we're actually in better shape than most who've transitioned to their QBOF.

Record, interestingly, may not be the decider as to when Rosen is deemed ready. The Giants were 7-3 with Warner when they moved to Manning.

The Giants were 5-4 and made the change after starting 4-2 and then had an ugly 3 game stretch which ended Warner’s fun after we nailed him for like 6 sacks.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Gimme, you are sure putting up a lot of straw men and false dichotomies to make your point.



Uh no, QBOTF means EXACTLY Quarterback of the FUTURE, not "WAY into the future", not "in some galaxy far, far away", but also not NOW. The FUTURE is exactly NOT now. The 1st round pick does NOT have to help the Cardinals win NOW. It's almost like you're being deliberately obtuse here.



The idea behind delaying a QB's first start is to let him learn ALL the things a pro QB needs to learn - not just the playbook but the practice routines, how to study film, the way NFL defenses adjust, how and when to audible, etc. When a team has no legitimate alternative than to start a rookie in game 1, the rookie needs to learn all of those things, AND adjust to NFL game speed, all at the same time. The Cardinals have a rare luxury in having a former #1 overall draft pick with 8 seasons of experience, who has already learned how to be a pro as well as learning many different playbooks. As long as Bradford is healthy, he gives the Cardinals the option of letting Rosen get up to speed on all the other things he needs to learn, BEFORE he has to demonstrate it at NFL speed vs. NFL defenses. Sure, the day will come when Rosen is ready for that, and MAYBE it will even be game 1 - but there's no urgency to force the issue.



Why should the team, the fans, and the veteran players have to "accept" blowing some games or even the team's chances for the entire year, when that's not necessary? They have the luxury of letting Bradford start and deciding when's the best time to transition to Rosen (unless injury forces the issue). But an arbitrary demand to start in game 1 should not force the issue.



Sure, every team in the league will suffer attrition during the year. But with the OL especially, learning a new offense, it takes time for them to gel and reach maximum efficiency as a unit. They can benefit from having an experienced QB helping them get up to speed. Why complicate things with everyone learning at the same time, and place a QBOF at risk, rather than placing a bridge QB at risk?



This is a bunch of non-sequiturs. Nothing in this paragraph implies any justification for starting Rosen immediately.



Again, it's as though you're deliberately forgetting the meaning of "FUTURE". Not playing game 1 is exactly BEING the QBOF.



More non-sequiturs. People who wanted Rosen as the QBOF can be perfectly happy letting the Cardinals decide when it's the best time for him to transition into the starting role. They can be perfectly happy if he's afforded the OPPORTUNITY to sit an learn.



Yes, but not every O is stepping on the field with a new QB. The OL will have a much easier time learning and gelling together with a steady vet at QB.



Rosen and Bradford have similar styles, so there should be no difficulty for the OL to transition from protecting Bradford to protecting Rosen, once they've gelled. But it will be much easier on both the OL and the QB if they only have to worry about one "variable" at a time. First learn the O and gel with a vet QB, then add a rookie QB into the mix.



Every player is different. Rosen may be as ready as any of them, or more - but that doesn't mean it's necessarily a good thing for him to be put in a starting role in game 1. BTW, Wentz was in his second year in 2017, Watson did NOT start and when he replaced the injured Savage he actually managed a lower passer rating (60), and Kizer began an 0-16 campaign which he ended with a 60 passer rating. Ulch.



I honestly don't get why you're casting it as reluctance or fear, rather than prudence.



No, they don't "got to find out, sooner". It's perfectly fine for them to find out later. Why do you think they "got to find out, sooner"? You have not once justified that stance.

It's like buying a new car and putting it in the garage and never taking it out for a spin---there's gravel on the road that may put a nick in the paint, there's a pigeon in the tree that is going to drop some birdie doo on the hood, some jerk at Wal-Mart is going to bang against the car with a shopping cart, yada-yada-yada.

No, it's not like that at all. Cars don't nee to learn things.



What a great luxury that would be to have! Imagine the trade value Bradford would have. Plus in that year, the Cardinals would have a MUCH better idea of whether Rosen has more upside than even a miracle Bradford. One or the other would have great trade value. So in this scenario, (a) the Cardinals make a deep playoff run, and (b) they could trade either QB for great value. In your "preferred" scenario, the Cardinals let Bradford sit on the bench all year and don't pick up his option next year, and they "sacrifice" a season to losing because "they got to!"[/QUOTE]

Bottom line: If Rosen is so pro-ready that the coaching staff thinks he'll benefit from starting game 1 AND that he'll give the team close to the same chance of winning as Bradford, by all means, put him in! But in the more likely event that he could benefit from continuing to get up to speed on ALL of the things a pro QB needs to learn before being forced to perform at NFL speed, AND Bradford gives the the team a better chance of winning while the vets learn the offense without having to support and protect a rookie QB, then let him sit. The vets can easily adjust to the rookie later once they've got everything else under their belts.

I trust the staff to decide when is the OPTIMAL time for Rosen to start, balancing all considerations, rather than arbitrarily deciding he has to start game 1 because, well, he's just "got to!"

...dave[/QUOTE]

Great reply---thanks for taking the time to respond.

Still need to start Rosen Game 1. Regular season opens the week of Sept. 6--that is five months away. Plenty of time to sit and learn, get him playing time during preseason---and get the show on the road.

Need to find out ASAP if Rosen has what it takes. Over half the players taken in the first-round will be busts and many of those who stick will never play up to their first round status.

Need to find out if Rosen is going to be the guy. The only way to do that is to put him in and see what he can do. Bradford and Glennon are both lame ducks at QB. If we don't install Rosen, that has potential to stall the Cards for yet another year if he falls flat.

No one seems interested in my opinion to start Rosen or to speak up in support my viewpoint . . so I'll censor myself on this thread. I'm wasting too much time talking to myself. LOL.

 

[gimpy]

Tl;dnr.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Tl;dnr.

5/5

...and I have no idea if that really means something or was accidental gibberish.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

5/5

...and I have no idea if that really means something or was accidental gibberish.

TL;DR is too long;didn’t read

TL;DNR is funnier if it means do not resuscitate (this thread)

 

[oaken1]

Something important you didn't address that I think is paramount in the decision, installing a new system. Maybe Rosen takes it all in and can start week 1 but I think that is a lot to ask of a rookie in general and especially to a team where the other players are having to learn too.

Bradford is an old pro at acclimating to new systems and he's going to be hard for any rookie to beat out in limited snaps. So, do you give Rosen all the first team reps that he would likely need to even have a chance as the week 1 starter? Seems awfully risky and irresponsible of the coaching staff IMO. I would guess that most vets aren't too keen about the idea of sacrificing a season just to get a rookie QB up to speed. Does the coach risk his credibility by bowing to a draft slot or does he put the best players on the field and give everyone their best chance of winning games?

This is a critical time for Wilks and his future as the HC. Starting a rookie QB if he isn't the best option is a big risk. In the short term, I don't see any way Rosen can beat out a healthy Bradford for opening day starter. Bradford is everything Rosen is in terms of physical ability but with years of experience. If he's healthy, he'll easily win the job and the best player(s) should play.

Rosen had a different OC's every year at UCLA... so learning yet another offense is not new for him other than maybe a step up in verbiage.

the answer is to give equal reps in camp...we have nearly four months before there is even a pre season game. During all these mini camps between now and august they just give equal reps between each QB.

It just humors me that this type of objection is even coming up right now. The kid has never even taken a practice snap in cardinal red.

I agree with you the best player should play. also that the best player is most likely Sam Bradford come opening day. But Rosen is smart, he is physically superior to Bradford, and the only thing he is lacking is experience once he learns the offense... cant get experience from the pine

 

[GimmedaBall]

5/5

...and I have no idea if that really means something or was accidental gibberish.

It is an acronym used on the Internet to demean and ridicule those who take the time to compose an answer while trying to make their point.

It is a cheap shot when you really don't have anything to add and are too lazy and/or superior to do any research of your own. Simply dismiss an opinion with disdain without even bothering to provide any reason whatsoever. . . it's too long for you to even bother to read.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Rosen had a different OC's every year at UCLA... so learning yet another offense is not new for him other than maybe a step up in verbiage.

the answer is to give equal reps in camp...we have nearly four months before there is even a pre season game. During all these mini camps between now and august they just give equal reps between each QB.

It just humors me that this type of objection is even coming up right now. The kid has never even taken a practice snap in cardinal red.

I agree with you the best player should play. also that the best player is most likely Sam Bradford come opening day. But Rosen is smart, he is physically superior to Bradford, and the only thing he is lacking is experience once he learns the offense... cant get experience from the pine

Good points. Gotta believe Rosen expects to be the Game 1 Starter. He will show up and compete for the opening day job fully expecting that he will win and be the one to run out of the tunnel with the starting lineup opening day. That's the way it should be and makes his so-called arrogance a positive.

 

[CardNots]

Nice subject, great reasoning all over this thread.

A seriously painful read though...

 

[Jetstream Green]

It is an acronym used on the Internet to demean and ridicule those who take the time to compose an answer while trying to make their point.

It is a cheap shot when you really don't have anything to add and are too lazy and/or superior to do any research of your own. Simply dismiss an opinion with disdain without even bothering to provide any reason whatsoever. . . it's too long for you to even bother to read.

You mean acting 'superior' like using say Judge Judy as an avatar... yeah, your're right lol

 

[gmabel830]

Unoffical count on who starts Game #1 as of post #54:

Bradford = 15 votes
Glennon = 1 vote
Rosen = 0 votes

Overwhelming consensus is for Bradford to be the starter. Only gmabela830 went with Glennon. Since gmabela830 has the final say and last word the starter. . . . is Glennon.

(That's not a bad prediction given Bradford's history with his knee. That pushes the opening game over to the next vet in line which would be Glennon.)

Surprised on one wants to see Rosen in Game 1. The notion is that he sits and 'learns'----not a whole lot of learning going on as the 3rd stringer---does the guy even get a clipboard? Can he study game film of Stanton running down the sideline and doing his famous victory dance? With the reduced pad time allowed in practice---the learning happens with on-the-job training.

No one wants our new QB to get on the field ASAP with Game 1?

Nice to finally get some gd respect around here! [emoji16]

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[GimmedaBall]

You mean acting 'superior' like using say Judge Judy as an avatar... yeah, your're right lol

No one ever gave her the ball when she was a kid growing up in Brooklyn . . . and see how she turned out.

Did you not see my current avatar?

PMF (Pull My Finger)

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[GimmedaBall]

Nice to finally get some gd respect around here! [emoji16]

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

After over 8,000 posts, it was long past due. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[gimpy]

Sorry, Gimme. Sometimes I put my foot in my mouth. This was one of those times. It was mean spirited. It won't happen again.

 

[MadCardDisease]

This needs to be repeated and highlighted. The Cardinals did not necessarily pay 20 million to Bradford. They did pay ten million and gave him a base salary of five million. The last five million are tied to playing time, and if Rosen starts, well then Bradford doesn’t get a penny of those money. Look around the league and you will see how cheap that is for a potential starting quarterback.

Even if they did trade him, the cap hit would be low.

I don’t think it’s fair that many criticize Keim for things that are simply not true. I must say that I think it happens a bit too often.

Bradford doesn't have to start. He just has to be on the Active Roster to get the $312.5k per game roster bonus. So if he is active for all 16 games he makes the full $5M roster bonus.

Bradford's base salary of $5M is guaranteed. So if the Cardinals cut him before the season starts he will cost $15M against the cap ($5M guaranteed base + $10M Signing bonus). If they trade him before the season starts he will cost $10M against the cap as the other team would pick up the Base salary.

I don't think Bradford is going anywhere this year. It would take a team like the Vikings losing Cousins for the year during the preseason and offering up a pick. Bradford is most likely gone next year unless he stays healthy and lights up the league in some sort of miracle season.

 

[moklerman]

I don't think Bradford is going anywhere this year. It would take a team like the Vikings losing Cousins for the year during the preseason and offering up a pick. Bradford is most likely gone next year unless he stays healthy and lights up the league in some sort of miracle season.

It's hard to imagine the type of numbers Bradford would have to produce to remain a Cardinal after this year. Anything south of 5,000 yards and 50 TD's isn't going to cut it IMO.

 

[Proximo]

Well, I am going to say it is 50/50 as to whether Bradford or Rosen starts game 1.

Depends on how Rosen looks in preseason, and it depends on Bradfords health.

If Bradford is having any health issues at all, I predict Rosen will start from day 1, assuming he has assimilated the playbook effectively, which I think he will.

 

[Proximo]

It's hard to imagine the type of numbers Bradford would have to produce to remain a Cardinal after this year. Anything south of 5,000 yards and 50 TD's isn't going to cut it IMO.

I think 4500 and 40 tds, no health issues, and deep into the playoffs would get the job done. So Yeah - it's not going to happen.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's hard to imagine the type of numbers Bradford would have to produce to remain a Cardinal after this year. Anything south of 5,000 yards and 50 TD's isn't going to cut it IMO.

If he stayed healthy and put up 30/12ish/4000 and won a game in the playoffs I think he’d have a really strong case to stay QB for another year.

 

[Gandhi]

Bradford doesn't have to start. He just has to be on the Active Roster to get the $312.5k per game roster bonus. So if he is active for all 16 games he makes the full $5M roster bonus.

You are, of course, right. My bad. Thanks for clarifying. Still, it is far away from the Cardinals necessarily paying 20 million.