Who to pick in rounds #2 and#3? After much thought......

[spanky1]

Assuming we stay put at #3 in round #1 (which I think we will and will pick either Fitzgeald or Mike Wiliams), where do we focus our attention for the rest of day #1.

I believe that we need to walk away from day #1 with a DT and a CB. The question is do we take a DT first with the #33 pick or a CB. Let's take a closer look.

I believe that the following DT's will be available at #33:
a)Marcus Tubbs
b)Igor Oshansky
c)Issac Sopoaga
d)Donnell Washington
All of these four are solid two gap DT's which is what we need. Tubbs is likely the "low risk" choice but Oshansky and Sopoaga have absolutely terrific upside. They are both Juniors, so less proven. Some are saying that if OShansky had of stayed for his senior year, he would be a top 15 pick next year. Wasington is a higher risk option......they are saying "boom or bust". For this reason, I think we beg off him. We can't afford to miss on the DT pick if we use it in round #2.

Keeping with the DT's for a moment......if we look at who's likely to be available at #64, I think the following are available:
a)Chad Lavalais
b)Dwan Edwards
c) Tommy Kelly
Admittedly, there is a big drop off between those at #33 and those at#64. Tommy Kelly is "rising", but Dwan Edwards is solid. Both are "two gap'ers" and measure out at between 6'3" and 6'5" and 300 lbs each. My guess is that Edwards and or Kelly are the prime potential picks in round #3

Now on to the CB'S. I'm guessing that the "blue chip" 1st round picks (in no specific order) will be: Strait, Gamble, Hall, Poole, and Robinson. This would leave the following at #33:
a)Carroll
b)Ware
I think the drop off in talent from round #1 and round #2 is not measureable, but the drop off between #33 and #64 is significant. If we wait until #64 our options would likely be between:
a) Nathan Vasher
b)Keiwan Ratliff
c)Ricardo Colclough
d)Jeremey LaSeur
e)Keith Smith
f)Joey Thomas

If it were up to me, I'd take OShansky at #33 and Keiwan Ratliff at #64

How would you see it?

 

[jw7]

Forget BPA vs. need. We need to draft based on players having cool names.

Bring in Igor and Batman.

j/k

I agree DT and CB still seem to be the biggest holes, and looks like the FA market is drying up. If we come out of day 1 with a blue-chipper in 1, and a DT and CB in 2-3, I'd be happy.

 

[vikesfan]

Originally posted by spanky1
Assuming we stay put at #3 in round #1 (which I think we will and will pick either Fitzgeald or Mike Wiliams), where do we focus our attention for the rest of day #1.
I believe that we need to walk away from day #1 with a DT and a CB. The question is do we take a DT first with the #33 pick or a CB. Let's take a closer look.
I believe that the following DT's will be available at #33:
a)Marcus Tubbs
b)Igor Oshansky
c)Issac Sopoaga
d)Donnell Washington
All of these four are solid two gap DT's which is what we need. Tubbs is likely the "low risk" choice but Oshansky and Sopoaga have absolutely terrific upside. They are both Juniors, so less proven. Some are saying that if OShansky had of stayed for his senior year, he would be a top 15 pick next year. Wasington is a higher risk option......they are saying "boom or bust". For this reason, I think we beg off him. We can't afford to miss on the DT pick if we use it in round #2.
Keeping with the DT's for a moment......if we look at who's likely to be available at #64, I think the following are available:
a)Chad Lavalais
b)Dwan Edwards
c) Tommy Kelly
Admittedly, there is a big drop off between those at #33 and those at#64. Tommy Kelly is "rising", but Dwan Edwards is solid. Both are "two gap'ers" and measure out at between 6'3" and 6'5" and 300 lbs each. My guess is that Edwards and or Kelly are the prime potential picks in round #3
Now on to the CB'S. I'm guessing that the "blue chip" 1st round picks (in no specific order) will be: Strait, Gamble, Hall, Poole, and Robinson. This would leave the following at #33:
a)Carroll
b)Ware
I think the drop off in talent from round #1 and round #2 is not measureable, but the drop off between #33 and #64 is significant. If we wait until #64 our options would likely be between:
a) Nathan Vasher
b)Keiwan Ratliff
c)Ricardo Colclough
d)Jeremey LaSeur
e)Keith Smith
f)Joey Thomas
If it were up to me, I'd take OShansky at #33 and Keiwan Ratliff at #64 How would you see it?

(1) I see it this way assuming the Cards have Fitz/M Williams available to them and take one - then the big holes on the team remain: 2 Gap DT, RT/RG. I think those are the 2 biggest holes. Then another CB, an OLB, a speed RB.

(2) I don't think all 5 of the round 1 CBs will go round 1. Poole Duanta, Gamble, Hall, Strait. At least one or two of those guys will be there. Plus a guy like Carroll will be there no doubt.

(3) As always happen several BPAs will fall through to the top of Round 2. For example you never know an OLB like DJ or Dansby might be there. An OL like Dorsy or Carey. Teams towards the end of round 1 are good teams and they have a tendancy to reach for need and let BPA types fall down into the top of Round 2. If GB will take a QB and NE a RB that means other quality BPAs fall down.

Last year it was MLB EJ Henderson that fell through for eg. No way to predict this. It could even be a guy like K Johnson then DG might jump on him.

A lot depends on how you balance need vs how much of a BPA the guys available at top of Round 2 are.
There might be a guy at the top of Round 2 who you feel is just too good to pass up on even though he might not be a OL, DT or CB. The second best TE in the draft Troupe might there for eg. DG likes to run a lot of TE...

(4) This would have been a good year to have had two mid-teen picks lol. M Williams and Fitz push two good players down the draft towards the top of Round 2. Ben, Eli and Rivers likely will do the same.
There will be some really good BPAs at positions of Cardinal need and non-need at #33. It will be a tough choice.

(5) Looking at what you said there will probably be a better CB then Carroll there. There might be a solid OL (remember this team needs a G and a T) and there will be a lot of DTs. Plus a BPA or two at other positions such as OLB maybe or a great RB or TE prospect.

(6) This team really could use a young CB in case Macklin or Starks don't work out. There is an obvious need at RT and RG. And an obvious need at 2 gap DT (not that 1 gap DT is much better or LDE).

Do you let Macklin and Starks and Hill and a later round CB try and cover the season as best as they can? And fill a true need like a 2 gap DT. I have no clue on the dudes who played 2 gap last year can you risk taking a 3rd round DT - at least one or two decent ones should be there. If Sopagala and Igor move up a guy like Dwan moves down.
I think the holes at RG and RT are pretty glaring.


(7) If K Jones is there I would take him over anyone else just for the record. Not sure about the other BPA types that might be there (DJ Dansby Troupe etc).

I think you fill the biggest hole. I would jump on a guy like Carey if he was there a dude you can play at G or T. Or take a straight tackle like Dorsy. If they are not there then take the best DT here stead of round 3. And round 3 take clear BPA type no matter the position. Just bite the bullet with Macklin at CB.

(8) Draft by names was my original idea: Fitz Batman Igor.
It might work a well as any other draft system. When you look at sheer numbers of draft failures after Round 1 and even in Round 1 this truly is a crapshoot. Even the best GMs in the NFL blow picks. It is really hard to hit on every pick.

(9) I reserve the right to change any picks I made above right up until draft day. And of course
everything I said was based on taking Fitz/M William #3 if they are not there then everything changes. If they take Gallery remove the OL and substitute WR. If they take Taylor then CB is of lesser importance since the secondary gets an upgrade even though he is not a CB. And when you consider trade down it could fill several positions or might even give the Cards 2 round 2 picks.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

DT or CB

Of the two I'd rather see a CB in round 2......but if a "best player scenario" happens then you should also be able to find a decent CB in round 3.

 

[az jam]

There will be some first round prospects that slip and the Cards should go after them regardless of need. Do not be surprised if a RB is the 2nd round choice. Lots of teams that needed a rb signed free agents i.e Garner to Tampa Bay, Staley to the Steelers, Tom Jones to the Bears, Portis traded to the Skins.
Denny could also trade up to get one in the bottom half of the 1st round if he really likes one. (that could be true of any player regardless of position)

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by az jam
There will be some first round prospects that slip and the Cards should go after them regardless of need. Do not be surprised if a RB is the 2nd round choice. Lots of teams that needed a rb signed free agents i.e Garner to Tampa Bay, Staley to the Steelers, Tom Jones to the Bears, Portis traded to the Skins.
Denny could also trade up to get one in the bottom half of the 1st round if he really likes one. (that could be true of any player regardless of position)

I've been wondering if Chris Perry will be around in Rd 3. I think we will take a back in this draft, just not with the first two picks.

 

[Capt'nCard]

I agree with the need for a DT and CB. What we really need is a healthy Starks. If he comes back 100% that takes some of pressure of the other secondary guys. Although I'm still not completely sold on "show me the money" Starks. I think he was a product of his envoirment in Baltimore. As good as that defense was it made everyone look better than they are. now pull him out of that defense and he's only an average to above average CB.

I think we go DT at #33 and address CB next. I still like Shawntee Spencer in the laters rounds too. I just hope they stay at #3 and address a need there. If we get one of the WR's great and if Eli is at #3 which I doubt, think you seriously have to consider him as well........

 

[BACH]

At #33 you're out of the blue-chip catagory, so the BAP approach gets altered a bit and you only draft the BPA at your need positions. I agree that CB and DT (two-gap) should be the only two positions drafted at #33, so you draft the best available at those two positions. If one of the five CBs slide to #33 you have to take him, since all of these five players are ranked higher than Tubbs, Washington or Sapuogaawhatever.

 

[john h]

Originally posted by spanky1
Assuming we stay put at #3 in round #1 (which I think we will and will pick either Fitzgeald or Mike Wiliams), where do we focus our attention for the rest of day #1.

I believe that we need to walk away from day #1 with a DT and a CB. The question is do we take a DT first with the #33 pick or a CB. Let's take a closer look.



I believe that the following DT's will be available at #33:
a)Marcus Tubbs
b)Igor Oshansky
c)Issac Sopoaga
d)Donnell Washington
All of these four are solid two gap DT's which is what we need. Tubbs is likely the "low risk" choice but Oshansky and Sopoaga have absolutely terrific upside. They are both Juniors, so less proven. Some are saying that if OShansky had of stayed for his senior year, he would be a top 15 pick next year. Wasington is a higher risk option......they are saying "boom or bust". For this reason, I think we beg off him. We can't afford to miss on the DT pick if we use it in round #2.

Keeping with the DT's for a moment......if we look at who's likely to be available at #64, I think the following are available:
a)Chad Lavalais
b)Dwan Edwards
c) Tommy Kelly
Admittedly, there is a big drop off between those at #33 and those at#64. Tommy Kelly is "rising", but Dwan Edwards is solid. Both are "two gap'ers" and measure out at between 6'3" and 6'5" and 300 lbs each. My guess is that Edwards and or Kelly are the prime potential picks in round #3

Now on to the CB'S. I'm guessing that the "blue chip" 1st round picks (in no specific order) will be: Strait, Gamble, Hall, Poole, and Robinson. This would leave the following at #33:
a)Carroll
b)Ware
I think the drop off in talent from round #1 and round #2 is not measureable, but the drop off between #33 and #64 is significant. If we wait until #64 our options would likely be between:
a) Nathan Vasher
b)Keiwan Ratliff
c)Ricardo Colclough
d)Jeremey LaSeur
e)Keith Smith
f)Joey Thomas

If it were up to me, I'd take OShansky at #33 and Keiwan Ratliff at #64

How would you see it?

I would go for DT if he is the best among the DT's and CB's that might be available. I think you need to evaluate which one of these positions has the best player available as we need both. As Graves would say we still have June left so maybe we will still get someone. As of today I think we still need to sign some more FA's and hope we are not stocking that money for the stadium.

 

[Assface]

round 1--Wilfork
round 2--best available CB
round 3--best available offensive player

 

[Ryanwb]

Originally posted by Assface
round 1--Wilfork
round 2--best available CB
round 3--best available offensive player

Wow, I 100% agree....nice take

 

[vikesfan]

Originally posted by BACH
At #33 you're out of the blue-chip catagory, so the BAP approach gets altered a bit and you only draft the BPA at your need positions. I agree that CB and DT (two-gap) should be the only two positions drafted at #33, so you draft the best available at those two positions. If one of the five CBs slide to #33 you have to take him, since all of these five players are ranked higher than Tubbs, Washington or Sapuogaawhatever.

I disagree with this. You are out of the blue-chip category after 8 or 9 players. But BPAs continue througout the draft in clusters. The first 8 then the next 8 then the next 10 etc. but they don't get taken in that order for example,
last year at iirc #39 in round 2 the Vikes got the the best ILB in the draft, a player projected as top 15. In Round 4 the Vikes got O Smith another guy projected as a top 15 pick some had him top 10.
Neither of these were need picks the Vikes had 2 ILBs signed (including a big FA signing that year) and had 2 solid RBs behind Bennett.

You don't have to reach for need. Sure as the draft goes on it becomes in general easier to disregard BPA and go more for need. But BPAs almost always drop through the first round and sometimes the second and even the third.

Some teams do reach more in later rounds. As I said last year Vikes went BPA in Round 2 and Round 4 but alas they did not go BPA in Round 3 they reached for a WR based on need. The BPAs in Round 3 were a solid T and a solid G they should have taken one of those and passed on the WR.

So since teams will reach you will get good players sometimes drop through.

At the same time in later rounds one is also tempted by players who might have some incredible skills or production in school or potential that other teams would pass by settling for the more safe type pick. DG had an uncanny ability to hit on later round picks by finding something special about them. The Brad Johnsons and Matt Birks of this world. He didn't waste those later picks sometimes they became special teamers. But the chances beyond the first couple rounds get dimmer and dimmer.

 

[JeffGollin]

Finally! I was able to get a copy of TSN's Draft Guide at B & N this morning.

Using their draft board as guide for who'll be available high up in Rounds 2 and 3, I came up with 2 scenarios:

A. The Logical
1. Fitzgerald WR
2. Coclaugh or Ware CB (or a reach for Batman Carroll except he's not very tall)
3. Sopoaga NT

What worries me about this scenario is that the TSN Board assumes a run on so many CB's that no really good ones are available to us at #33. (Poole at #26 is as close as they come).

So I developed "Plan B"

B. Plan B
1. Taylor S
2. Jenkins (dude ran a 4.45) WR
3. Sopoaga NT

It still doesn't help us at CB, but I think we get more talent by going in this direction.

It also illustrates why I remain so adamant about adding another CB in free agency (and why a modest trade-down strategy (no further than #9 or #10) - possibly followed by a trade back up into the late 1st round) might make sense).

 

[vikesfan]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Finally! I was able to get a copy of TSN's Draft Guide at B & N this morning.

Using their draft board as guide for who'll be available high up in Rounds 2 and 3, I came up with 2 scenarios:

A. The Logical
1. Fitzgerald WR
2. Coclaugh or Ware CB (or a reach for Batman Carroll except he's not very tall)
3. Sopoaga NT

What worries me about this scenario is that the TSN Board assumes a run on so many CB's that no really good ones are available to us at #33. (Poole at #26 is as close as they come).

So I developed "Plan B"

B. Plan B
1. Taylor S
2. Jenkins (dude ran a 4.45) WR
3. Sopoaga NT

It still doesn't help us at CB, but I think we get more talent by going in this direction.

It also illustrates why I remain so adamant about adding another CB in free agency (and why a modest trade-down strategy (no further than #9 or #10) - possibly followed by a trade back up into the late 1st round) might make sense).

TSN doesn't do all that well with mocks, I kind of doubt the big 5 CBs all go round 1. I wonder if Sopoaga lasts til Round 3 that would be sweet.

 

[SMAC]

1. Larry Fitzgerald WR Pittsburgh
2. Igor Olshansky DT Oregon
3. Ricardo Colclough CB Tuskuum

 

[Shuesters2]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Finally! I was able to get a copy of TSN's Draft Guide at B & N this morning.

Using their draft board as guide for who'll be available high up in Rounds 2 and 3, I came up with 2 scenarios:

A. The Logical
1. Fitzgerald WR
2. Coclaugh or Ware CB (or a reach for Batman Carroll except he's not very tall)
3. Sopoaga NT

What worries me about this scenario is that the TSN Board assumes a run on so many CB's that no really good ones are available to us at #33. (Poole at #26 is as close as they come).

So I developed "Plan B"

B. Plan B
1. Taylor S
2. Jenkins (dude ran a 4.45) WR
3. Sopoaga NT

It still doesn't help us at CB, but I think we get more talent by going in this direction.

It also illustrates why I remain so adamant about adding another CB in free agency (and why a modest trade-down strategy (no further than #9 or #10) - possibly followed by a trade back up into the late 1st round) might make sense).

Jeff,

Concur. Most drafts and your plan A & B indicate the 'good' CBs are gone at #33. But it seems there would be several good WRs and O-line at that spot. If we draft WR #1 and aren't drafting O-line high our 2nd round pick is a problem.

If the Cards go CB they will have to reach for a lesser player. If they draft best player its a second WR or a guard. Then in the 3rd we probably miss the 2nd tier of DTs and have a lot of defensive holes left unfilled.

If we had one more corner we could let the draft fall to us and select the best player. I don't like the trade down options if below 5, and to move our #2 up to another #1 might be too expensive. A second FA corner would sure help.

Shuesters

PS. Or just say screw it, cross your fingers, and hope they all drop in our laps!

 

[az jam]

IMO:

1. Larry Fitzgerald, WR

2. Donnell Washington, DT

3. Tatum Bell, RB

4. Joey Thomas, CB Montana State

 

[D-Dogg]

1) Larry Fitzgerald/Mike Williams, WR

33) Derrick Strait, CB

64) Best RB available (speed RB)

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Finally! I was able to get a copy of TSN's Draft Guide at B & N this morning.

Using their draft board as guide for who'll be available high up in Rounds 2 and 3, I came up with 2 scenarios:

A. The Logical
1. Fitzgerald WR
2. Coclaugh or Ware CB (or a reach for Batman Carroll except he's not very tall)
3. Sopoaga NT

What worries me about this scenario is that the TSN Board assumes a run on so many CB's that no really good ones are available to us at #33. (Poole at #26 is as close as they come).

So I developed "Plan B"

B. Plan B
1. Taylor S
2. Jenkins (dude ran a 4.45) WR
3. Sopoaga NT

It still doesn't help us at CB, but I think we get more talent by going in this direction.

It also illustrates why I remain so adamant about adding another CB in free agency (and why a modest trade-down strategy (no further than #9 or #10) - possibly followed by a trade back up into the late 1st round) might make sense).

Jeff...

I like your plan B. You never know, we still might sign another FA CB. If so, then our D got a whole lot better.

 

[artp]

I think Colclough will be a good pick in rd 2. Being in Ark, I saw most of A Carrols games. I was not impressed. Teams actually picked on him, because he would always draw the pass interference. He had, I think, 3 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties in 2 games! Batman relied on his physical ability too much. When he would get beaten by a good route runner, he would just reach out an grab. I think there are "off the field" issues as well. Don't misunderstand me, I like Ahmad Carroll by his athleticism alone. I don't think he is worth the 33 pick.

 

[MadRob]

HOW/WHEN do we find out if we will have a healthy Starks????

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by MadRob
HOW/WHEN do we find out if we will have a healthy Starks????

Realistically, not until full training camp. But, Green liked what he saw from Starks in Miami weekend before last.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by Assface
round 1--Wilfork
round 2--best available CB
round 3--best available offensive player

Round 1: B. Roethlisberger
Round 2: Best available CB (hey, at least you got that one right, Assface! )
Round 3: Best available C (Grove, Stepanovich, etc...)

 

[Assface]

Wow, everyone here is wrong except me and Ryan...