Why 76ers trade makes sense.

[sunsfan88]

Amare Stoudemire trade rumors 2010: Why a Philly deal involving Iguodala would be the Suns’ best bet

Posted by Michael Schwartz on February 5th, 1:29 am



The hottest Amare Stoudemire trade rumor of the day revolves around the Suns packaging Leandro Barbosa with STAT to Philadelphia in return for Andre Iguodala and Samuel Dalembert. According to ESPN's Chad Ford, the Suns are interested in such a deal but Philadelphia is not for now.


If I were Steve Kerr, this is a deal I would seriously consider pulling the trigger on.

Although in a perfect world, Amare to be signed to a reasonable extension, if the right deal is out there then the Suns have to do it considering the possibility of losing Amare for nothing this offseason or sweating through a lame duck year only to lose him next offseason.
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There are two key ingredients I think the Suns should require in any Amare trade:


1. A potential future All-Star.
2. A big man.


If a player like Al Jefferson or Michael Beasley who happens to satisfy both requirements gets dangled, then great. But one way or another those are the two pieces the Suns need to get back in any such deal, and this trade does just that.


Iggy fills up the box score on a nightly basis, averaging 17.3 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 5.7 apg and 1.0 steals per contest. The biggest downside on the court to Iguodala is that he’s not a three-point shooter, hitting just 31.4 percent of his long-range shots this season and 32.3 percent for his career, but he’d be dynamic in the open court with Nash.


The other downside is his contract, which pays him $12.3 million next season, $13.5 mil in 2011-12 and $14.7 million in 2012-13 before he has a chance to pick up a $15.9 million player option the year after that. If the Suns like the UA product, they better really like him because he will be at least one of the faces of the franchise in the post-Nash years under this scenario.


Dalembert, a native of Haiti, is a salary albatross on the books at $12.2 million next season, but he can still play a little. He’s an athletic 6-foot-11 performer averaging 7.5 and 9.7 to go with 2.2 blocks per game, and he’s only a couple years removed from a 10.5-10.3 with 2.3 blocks.


With Iggy on the perimeter and Dalembert down low, the Suns would be a much improved defensive team, and they would have quite the shot-blocking trio of Dalembert, Lopez and Lou.


Financially, the Suns would be taking on about $1.25 million this season, which amounts to a $2.5 million hit due to the luxury tax. Next year, if Amare does indeed exercise his option, the financial commitment on both sides is about a wash.


After that, the Suns would have about $27 million worth of expiring contracts in Dalembert and J-Rich for the summer of 2011, which they could either turn into an asset or use to reload during that summer around Nash (one last time) and Iggy along with the youthful quartet of Dragic-Dudley-Clark-Lopez.


In the meantime, the general consensus about the current Suns is that they are a nice team that could win a playoff series but likely isn’t making a real run any time soon.


Would Iggy and Dalembert change that? Not necessarily, but they would turn the Suns into a more defensive-oriented unit that could still play up tempo, and John Hollinger’s analysis on ESPN trade machine gives the Suns five more wins and the Sixers eight fewer victories.


I do worry about not having a true interior offensive presence, but scoring has never been the Suns’ problem, and it wouldn’t be with this hypothetical lineup.


As for Philadelphia, a team that visits US Airways Center on Feb. 24, Amare may have spoken about seriously considering exercising his option to scare a bad team like the Sixers from making a play for him in hopes of acquiring a de facto expiring contract in Stoudemire. That certainly would be one of the Sixers’ biggest aims with the Iggy-Dalembert duo being rumored for



T-Mac’s expiring deal as well.


Even if he exercises the option, I don’t see how that’s so bad for Philly since the team would then have a major expiring deal to potentially turn into more assets. Plus, I don’t think Amare would exercise it to stay in a situation he isn’t happy with.


Back to the Suns, I really like this trade because of how it sets up their future. When I look at the future of the Suns, I either see a core of quality young players who aren’t stars or that same group plus Amare taking up a huge chunk of cap room.


Under this scenario the Suns would have a complementary stud in Iguodala joining a better defensive unit with Dalembert this season, and then a reload in 2011 featuring Nash with the youthful quintet of Dragic-Iggy-Dudley-Clark-Lopez.


Do you think a 2011 free agent or two would want to join that exciting Phoenix squad flush with cap space for one final run with Nash?


I understand I’m getting ahead of myself here, but I don’t see anybody sending Steve Kerr an offer that sets up the Suns any better for the future while keeping them competitive (and potentially better) in the present.


Its an article from the valley of the suns.

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I would like it if its Barbosa and Amare for Iggy, Dalembert and Marreese Speights and maybe Nash can make Speights look like Amare.

 

[Chaplin]

And how exactly would JRich and Igoudala co-exist on the same team? Igoudala is getting his numbers as the #1 option on a bad team. We already have an Igoudala on our team, his name is JRich.

Mind-boggling how some Suns fans don't have a clue what they're talking about. And they make fun of Hollinger??

 

[Yuma]

And how exactly would JRich and Igoudala co-exist on the same team? Igoudala is getting his numbers as the #1 option on a bad team. We already have an Igoudala on our team, his name is JRich.

Mind-boggling how some Suns fans don't have a clue what they're talking about. And they make fun of Hollinger??

I agree Chaplin. One of the two would have to come off the bench, which I don't see either guy willing to do.

I'm almost looking at these trades that pieces we get would necessitate moving pieces we have, which in most cases the other team wouldn't want. I'm thinking Kerr would have to have at least two trades lined up in any scenario that has been mentioned. Which of course makes this even harder.

Finally, just being a Suns fan for so long, it seems whenever we have a chance at a deal, something usually goes wrong. In this case it would be Amar'e taking his option and becoming impossible to trade. That's a scenario I could see happening if we were offered something good!

 

[Errntknght]

Yuma,

In this case it would be Amar'e taking his option and becoming impossible to trade. That's a scenario I could see happening if we were offered something good!

What kind of an option does Amare have? I recently read something about him opting 'in', but other times it was said he had could opt 'out' - meaning, if he didn't do something he'd be around for another year. I'm not sure what you mean by 'taking his option' - does he damage a trade by opting 'in' or 'out'. Heck, by simply refusing to declare he can leave it up in the air until summer, which is probably the worst possible state to receive him in a trade. Maybe worse would be telling a prospective trade partner that he'll do whatever it is they don't want him to do...

 

[TBaslim]

Also, it's one thing if Amare gets traded due to wanting a max contract that the Suns will not give him, but why include Barbosa? He's a great team player, still young, great contract, just having a down year with injuries. Using Amare to move JRich I understand. Makes no sense to include Barbosa.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

And how exactly would JRich and Igoudala co-exist on the same team? Igoudala is getting his numbers as the #1 option on a bad team. We already have an Igoudala on our team, his name is JRich.

Mind-boggling how some Suns fans don't have a clue what they're talking about. And they make fun of Hollinger??

Wow - Comparing Iguodala to Jrich. You should have your NBA card revoked.

JRich is a shooting, ball hogging 2 guard , with overatted athleticism.

Iguodala is more of a 3 and is better ball handler, passer, rebounder, makes more clutch shots, and is tons younger.

For a UA guy I would think you would have followed Iggy a little bit closer.

 

[devilalum]

If you believe what you read the 76ers see Amare as nothing more than an expiring contract. When's the last time that could be said about a starting All Star?

 

[Chaplin]

Wow - Comparing Iguodala to Jrich. You should have your NBA card revoked.

JRich is a shooting, ball hogging 2 guard , with overatted athleticism.

Iguodala is more of a 3 and is better ball handler, passer, rebounder, makes more clutch shots, and is tons younger.

For a UA guy I would think you would have followed Iggy a little bit closer.

You are NOT serious, are you? I'm not a UA homer. We have talked ad nauseum about the similarities between the two players.

I have no problem saying that if JRich was on the Sixers instead of Igoudala, he would have equal numbers to what Iggy has now.

 

[asudevil83]

if we include Barbosa in a trade for Iggy and Dalambert we better as hell be getting back either Speights or Young or this years #1.

A) we are doing Philly a HUGE favor in taking back Dalambert. he's basically a throw in to make salaries work. there is NO MARKET for Dalambert. Philly has been trying like hell to unload him all season with no takers what-so-ever.

B.) Barbosa is a great player with a great contract. we would be doing Philly a favor by throwing him in.

IMO there are only two trades that make any sort of sense with Philly:

Amare/JRich for Iggy/Dalambert with even a little something extra thrown in

or

Amare/Barbosa for Iggy/Dalambert and either Speights/Young/#1 this year

other than that Philly is probably looking for either HUGE exprings such as O'Neil, TMac, or Ilgauskas where a three team deal is possible.

Suns trade:
Amare/Barbosa
Suns get:
Iggy/Dalambert/Young/Chalmers/Miami #1

Sixers trade:
Iggy/Dalambert
Sixers get:
Barbosa/O'Neal/Miami 2012 #1

Heat trade:
O'Neal/Chalmbers/2010 #1/2012 #1
Heat get
Amare

Lopez/Dalambert
Young/Amundson
Iggy/Hill
Richardson/Dragic
Nash/Chalmers

we'd have a crap ton coming off the books with Richardson and Dalambert....and hopefully money to work with in the new CBA. Also a young core and future picks to work with too.

Philly clears a bunch of money and gets a young cheap SG replacement for Iggy.

Miami gets Amare without giving up Beasley

 

[sunsfan88]

These are probably the two best trades that can work:

(I doubt the sixers do this because it is obviously favored in our side but if they want Amare so badly...)

Suns trade:
Amare/Barbosa/2nd rd pick

Suns get:
Iggy/Dalambert/Speights/1st

Hill comes off the bench, Iggy starts at SG, J-Rich at SF and Speights at PF. Speights is a monster and has the potential to be the next Amare. With the 1st we can draft us a PG for the future.

or

Suns trade: Amare/Barbosa

Suns get: Al Jefferson/Watkins/Sessions

Nash will be starting PG and Big Al can be PF replacing Amare. Sessions can be the PG of the future and Dragic comes off the bench to play SG where he is clearly better at.

I personally would like to see Amare extended but now for a max contract. He has a ALOT of durable issues and lack of defense isn't worth a max contract.

 

[sunsfan88]

And how exactly would JRich and Igoudala co-exist on the same team? Igoudala is getting his numbers as the #1 option on a bad team. We already have an Igoudala on our team, his name is JRich.

Mind-boggling how some Suns fans don't have a clue what they're talking about. And they make fun of Hollinger??

Igoudala is a WAYYYYYYY BETTER defender than J-Rich. He has more ways of scoring as well. The only thing Richardson has on him is that Jason is a better 3pt shooter but other than that Igoudala is better.

 

[Chaplin]

Igoudala is a WAYYYYYYY BETTER defender than J-Rich. He has more ways of scoring as well. The only thing Richardson has on him is that Jason is a better 3pt shooter but other than that Igoudala is better.

He may be a better defender, but more ways of scoring? How do you figure? JRich may be inconsistent as a third option, but if he had 10 minutes more per game like Iggy does, they'd be very similar. In fact, JRich is a far superior post-up player than Igoudala is.

 

[elindholm]

Iguodala's scoring and FG% are at their lowest in four years. Is he hurt?

 

[Go Devils]

I hate $arver and Kerr

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Wow - Comparing Iguodala to Jrich. You should have your NBA card revoked.

NBA card revoked?

Hate to break it to you, but Chap's 100% correct on this one. Just like J Rich, Iggy can put up decent #'s on a bad team, but isn't worth nearly what he's being paid. There are tons of 6'5-6-8 swingmen in the league that can put up decent numbers when they are a focal point of the offense, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have much value.

Iggy is a better defender and can drive, but J Rich is a superior 3 point shooter and has better shooting #'s overall. Considering their contract situations, I'd rather have J Rich expiring next year than Iggy for 3, especially with his ridiculous contract. Take off the red and blue glasses...

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Obviously, this is the Suns best option. However, why on earth would Philly trade Iggy for Amare when odds are he exercises his option and blots somewhere else?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

NBA card revoked?

Hate to break it to you, but Chap's 100% correct on this one. Just like J Rich, Iggy can put up decent #'s on a bad team, but isn't worth nearly what he's being paid. There are tons of 6'5-6-8 swingmen in the league that can put up decent numbers when they are a focal point of the offense, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have much value.

Iggy is a better defender and can drive, but J Rich is a superior 3 point shooter and has better shooting #'s overall. Considering their contract situations, I'd rather have J Rich expiring next year than Iggy for 3, especially with his ridiculous contract. Take off the red and blue glasses...

Wow you guys have the Suns glasses on here big time. You realize that NO ONE else in the NBA values Jason Richardson the way that you guys are talking about him right? There is a reason he was dumped in two cash dump trades in two years. You guys remember what we traded for him right? Raja Bell and Boris Diaw and his fat ass and contract? LOL

Iguodala's contract maybe have been an overreaction by the 6ers a year ago, but there is a reason he got it. He is seen as an ideal secondary option on a good team as he doesn't need the ball too be successful. And I love how everybody keeps omitting his rebounds and assists numbers like they don't matter. He has better size, is more athletic, is a better team player, and is the first and ONLY option on a horrible 76ers team.

His game is not a first rate scorer. But hes forced to be that because he is all Phily has. His game is more Lebron James then Kobe Bryant in that respect.

Richardson is the 5th option here and plays with Steve Nash. Why don't we go back to his days in GS and Charlotte real quick. He shot 41% his last year in GS and 44% in Charlotte while taking almost 1500 shots a game?!?! He is a high volume chucker who can't play within the context of an offense. Meanwhile Iggy can defend, rebound, and pass.

Let's play a game. Why don't you and Chap go ask you friends outside the state of Arizona who know the NBA, and see if they would rather have Iguodala or Jason Richardson? LOL its not even close.

You both point to a couple shooting % stats (which are crazy inflated because of Richardson playing here) and preach it like its the gospel. Its like you haven't watched an NBA game before, and as much as an exagerration as that is, I doubt you watch a game that doesn't involve the Suns just to watch players.

I see why the Suns think Iguodala could be a star here in Phoenix with less pressure to be the man, less defense on him, in a wide open offense with Steve Nash. He has shown the ability like a Joe Johnson to create his own shot at the end of a game too (see last years playoffs)

Jason Richardson is the guard version of Antoine Walker. There is not even a comparison.

So my point is national perception with everyone other then Suns homers = Iggy >>>>>> Richardson.

And at some point you have to have good players. Iguodala's contract maybe inflated, or so it seems at this point on a down year, but if you believe in him as a player and think he could be a great second or third banana, then you make that play.

All these people wanting draft picks and cap space are the same that moan and complain about Sarver's/Kerr's trades these past two years. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Chaplin]

Take off your Wildcat glasses for just a second. JRich was the best player on the Bobcats when he was the 1st option there. Being the 3rd option here hurt his game. Why is that a surprise?? And please, money trades usually have nothing to do with talent, so that argument is weak.

Sure, Iggy can be a good 2nd or 3rd banana, but he's being paid like a superstar player. Which is TOO HIGH. At least JRich only has 2 years left on his deal. Next year he'll be great trade bait. Igoudala won't even be close to good trade bait next year, not because he isn't a good player (he is) but because he's getting paid too much for too long.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Id rather have a guy for 3 years that is overpaid and putting up 18, 7, and 6 over a guy who is overpaid for 2 years, shoots 1/3 of his shots from downtown, and doesnt play defense.

 

[Chaplin]

Id rather have a guy for 3 years that is overpaid and putting up 18, 7, and 6 over a guy who is overpaid for 2 years, shoots 1/3 of his shots from downtown, and doesnt play defense.

That's not exactly accurate. Not counting this year, I believe Iggy has 3 years left and JRich only 1. That's a huge difference.

Geez, I bet when JRich hits his 3's you actually cheer. But now it's a bad mark on him? Come on now.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Take off your Wildcat glasses for just a second. JRich was the best player on the Bobcats when he was the 1st option there. Being the 3rd option here hurt his game. Why is that a surprise?? And please, money trades usually have nothing to do with talent, so that argument is weak.

Sure, Iggy can be a good 2nd or 3rd banana, but he's being paid like a superstar player. Which is TOO HIGH. At least JRich only has 2 years left on his deal. Next year he'll be great trade bait. Igoudala won't even be close to good trade bait next year, not because he isn't a good player (he is) but because he's getting paid too much for too long.

I think Richardson hit his peak 2-3 years ago. I don't think Iguodala has yet and I actually been impressed with what he has done in such a poor environment.

His contract is definitely higher then you'd like it to be, but if he comes here and produces at a 3 or 4 point higher level and adds another rebound and assist to his averages (which isn't so tough to imagine), as well as main perimeter defender for the team in't he worth that contract? Or at least in the sense of "worth" relative to NBA terms where guys like Jerome Johnson and Brian Cardinal make 8 million a year?

Now if we could combine him with one more frontcourt player either organically, or via trade or FA, all of a sudden we have a better chance to do damage, depending on who that third player is and how much longer Nash has.

I'm just saying comparing Richardson's time on the team compared to what Iggy would bring, and even more importantly could STILL bring 2-3 years down the road, I just don't see any comparison.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Geez, I bet when JRich hits his 3's you actually cheer. But now it's a bad mark on him? Come on now.

That's not the point. Iguodala is just the better overall player and younger and getting better. I would rather have three and half of Iggys best years here in Phoenix then one and a half of a offense clogging, hit his ceiling, 5th option Jason Richardson.

And I don't even have a problem with Richardson's game. He fits what we ask here. But Iguodala would be asked - and would provide - alot more.

No Wildcat glasses about it. I don't think you have watched enough of his game in the NBA. He's pretty good and just not recognized.

Maybe for an NFL comparison, a player like Boldin who is appreciated more up close here in Phoenix then he is on a national basis. This has been a tough year for him but I believe he is a legit talent. And in a multifaced way. Not just scoring the ball.

 

[sunsfan88]

We NEED a guy like Igoudala who can guard the perimeter and a guy like DALEMBERT who can defend big men like ALRIDGE!!

 

[Mr. Boldin]

That's not exactly accurate. Not counting this year, I believe Iggy has 3 years left and JRich only 1. That's a huge difference.

Geez, I bet when JRich hits his 3's you actually cheer. But now it's a bad mark on him? Come on now.

No, thats not the point. I would rather have a guy who is entering his prime, is one of only 3 active players to average those types of numbers and fits into any offense. Iggy can also run the 2nd unit ala Lamar Odom, Boris Diaw, ect.

Point is, Iggy is the better all around player and the type of player that flourishes when you add more talent around him. The Suns arent going to get a #1 option by dealing Amare, it just isnt going to happen. Iggy is a piece that works with Nash and allows room for growth by being able to add a pure scorer regardless if they rebound or play defense.

 

[overseascardfan]

I Philly was willing to add Speights, then I would send Barbosa along with Stoudamire.

PHI sends C Samuel Dalembert, PF Marresse Speights & G Andre Igoudala

PHX sends PF/C Amare Stoudamire & G Leandro Barbosa

Our core looks like: Speights, Clark, Lopez, Dragic, Dudley, Dalembert, Iguodala & Frye.

J-Rich sticks around unless we find a taker and ship him off next trade deadline to a team trying to create cap space.

One caveat, if MIA is willing to deal us O'Neal, Beasley & a 1st rounder I would send this package to them instead of Philly.