Why cant people see that Rosen has little value....to anyone

[AZCB34]

Holy *****! No way Rosen/quinnen equates to Goff/Donald. That’s flat out ridiculous.

Which is why I said theoretically. I also said I don't believe Rosen will be better then Goff.

As for Williams, Donald is the comparable and could achieve that lofty status. That is why I really wanted Q.

 

[moklerman]

Holy *****! No way Rosen/quinnen equates to Goff/Donald. That’s flat out ridiculous.

It isn't ridiculous but it also isn't likely. Donald is that good. But, Rosen/Quinnen is going to get a lot closer to their combined value than Murray alone.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Which is why I said theoretically. I also said I don't believe Rosen will be better then Goff.

As for Williams, Donald is the comparable and could achieve that lofty status. That is why I really wanted Q.

I understand wanting Q. I liked him too. But you essentially said Rosen was equal to the #1 overall pick qb who has been effective and gotten the Rams to a super bowl and Q to a defensive player of the year. I mean you want to talk kinda outta this world projections . . . those are them!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It isn't ridiculous but it also isn't likely. Donald is that good. But, Rosen/Quinnen is going to get a lot closer to their combined value than Murray alone.

Ahem, Murray/whatever they get for Rosen. They’re going to eventually get something for him. And if Murray hits his ceiling (I mean we’re making silly projections here already) I argue that he might exceed Rosen/Q.

 

[AZCB34]

I understand wanting Q. I liked him too. But you essentially said Rosen was equal to the #1 overall pick qb who has been effective and gotten the Rams to a super bowl and Q to a defensive player of the year. I mean you want to talk kinda outta this world projections . . . those are them!

Isn't this the time of year for outrageous projections? Just my turn. Lol

 

[Ronin]

#Rosenexcuses

 

[BW52]

#Rosenexcuses

#Murraybuttkissing

 

[Ronin]

#Murraybuttkissing

Its Alexcuses Vs Kaepernick 2.0.
it is scary how similar the debate is.
I lived through it once and Ill do it again.lol
#Iaintleaving #Iaintgotnothingbettertodo

 

[BW52]

Its Alexcuses Vs Kaepernick 2.0.
it is scary how similar the debate is.
I lived through it once and Ill do it again.lol
#Iaintleaving #Iaintgotnothingbettertodo

I remember Jim Hart versus Charlie Johnson
Gary Cuozzo versus Jim Hart
Pete Beathard vs Jim Hart

etc
Its been going on forever and likely will never stop.If it wasn`t Murray/Rosen it would be two other guys.

 

[Ronin]

I remember Jim Hart versus Charlie Johnson
Gary Cuozzo versus Jim Hart
Pete Beathard vs Jim Hart

etc
Its been going on forever and likely will never stop.If it wasn`t Murray/Rosen it would be two other guys.

Former NMSU Aggie!

 

[daves]

Fair questions. In a post on another thread (age robs me of remembering which) I said I thought best case scenario was really a 2nd or 3rd rounder due to what is on film for Rosen. I believe that Keim settled on a 1st or more using flawed thinking as well as ego and wouldn't entertain anything less.

I fail to see how holding out for a 1st was "ego". No reason to come off a 1st-round ask until the 1st round is over. Now if he ends up settling for a 2nd or 3rd... he's lost nothing.

In my heart, I think Rosen is worth a 3rd rounder at this time and if made that offer, Keim should jump on it. If someone comes in offering a 2nd rounder Keim should break his jaw agreeing to it.

Agreed!

...dave

 

[daves]

I think starting earlier maximizes the chances for a better deal

I think giving teams 10 mins when you are on the clock puts the pressure on you, not them

hypothetical, but my take

I think plenty of feelers were put out, probably in both directions, prior to the draft. For example, Ian Rappaport reports that it was clear weeks ago that Rosen was available. I'm sure Keim didn't hang up on teams that expressed interest. To have "tried harder" to get a deal pre-draft would've only lowered Rosen's value. The best way to elevate his value pre-draft was to put out the idea that the team might keep Rosen, wasn't set on drafting Murray, and wasn't desperate for a deal. By all accounts, that's exactly what the Cardinals did. It's just that other teams had zero interest in giving up a 1st rounder before the draft.

...dave

 

[daves]

Considering that every GM wanting to trade for somebody wants to pay the lowest cost possible and now every GM knows Rosen likely can`t co-exist with KK/Murray the Cards are reduced to recovering pennies on their dollar.

How do you propose that the Cardinals could've shopped Rosen, while simultaneously convincing other teams that they didn't plan to draft Murray? The only remote chance they had of pulling that off was to NOT go around calling other teams, trying to deal Rosen. They had to keep the possibility alive that they might not take Murray. And right before the draft, there was almost just as much buzz that the Cardinals would take Bosa or Williams, as there was that they would take Murray. In other words, they apparently did a GREAT job of convincing the media, at least, that they might hang on to Rosen if they didn't get a great offer. It didn't work, because nobody was really all that interested, but it was the best possible approach.

...dave

 

[daves]

If the pick was Murray, he should have started shopping Rosen before the clock started. That would have let the market dictate what he was worth.

The best way to get less for something is to let everyone know you're desperate to get rid of it.

The best way to get people to pay top dollar is to give the impression that you really aren't sure you want to part with it. The Cardinals played that game all the way up to the moment they picked Murray.

...dbs

 

[moklerman]

How do you propose that the Cardinals could've shopped Rosen, while simultaneously convincing other teams that they didn't plan to draft Murray? The only remote chance they had of pulling that off was to NOT go around calling other teams, trying to deal Rosen. They had to keep the possibility alive that they might not take Murray. And right before the draft, there was almost just as much buzz that the Cardinals would take Bosa or Williams, as there was that they would take Murray. In other words, they apparently did a GREAT job of convincing the media, at least, that they might hang on to Rosen if they didn't get a great offer. It didn't work, because nobody was really all that interested, but it was the best possible approach.

...dave

There's no way to say if it was the best possible approach. In retrospect, it's just as feasible to think that generating interest ahead of time and pushing to get a deal done before the draft would have possibly put fear into a team wanting to make a move. I don't believe there have been any reports that there weren't teams wanting to do a deal, just reports that the Cardinals waited to make any real decisions and were asking a high price.

What if the Cardinals just make Rosen available and aren't asking for a 1st? Say Miami is making an offer of a 3rd a week before the draft. Then if another team is interested and wants to get something done, they can negotiate ahead of time not knowing if and which QB's will be available in the draft.

The way the Cardinals approached it was certainly not the only way they could have.

 

[crisper57]

A lesson from Warren Buffett: Mr Market is schizophrenic. What he offers you today may not be what he offers tomorrow. Just because the market doesn’t see the value of your asset right now, doesn’t mean you are wrong.

We will take Miami’s 2nd and come August there will be a scenario where we will kick ourselves after a desperate team’s starter goes down. But that is the corner we’ve been backed into by Keim’s awful handling of Rosen from Day 1.