Why Can't The Suns Find A Big Man?

[George O'Brien]

Just an aside, have the Suns confirmed on Marks? Everyone treats it as a done deal and I can't remember an official announcment.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just an aside, have the Suns confirmed on Marks? Everyone treats it as a done deal and I can't remember an official announcment.

I think Sean Marks is supposed to officially sign with the Suns this week if he already hasn't. See link:

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=70037

 

[Errntknght]

I don't think the Suns compared Skita to Marks before they released him. They didn't feel Skita was ready to help the team in the next year so they cut him before his deadline and hoped to get someone that could help immediately. Eventually, they decided that Marks was the best they could do for the amount they wanted to spend so they made him an offer. For all we know they are now regretting Skita's release.

 

[Joe Mama]

I was a Skita advocate for a long time but he obviously did not want to play in the NBA because he did not want to gain strength or carry added weight. So I had no problem with the Suns letting him go. IMO, if Burke does not want to play inside he is not much help because the Suns regulars space the floor quite nicely. Really, in Marks, I do not know much about him other than he is supposed to be a shooter.

I just want the Suns to add a player to their roster upfront that brings something different to the table, a physical presence, especially in regards to rebounding. I wouldn't mind if the Suns kept a young project player like Lampe on the 15 man roster but I do not see him as NBA ready yet and he is not the type player I'm looking for right now. Again I want a banger and a rebounder even if he is undersized preferably with some veteran experience.

Tskitishvili got a lot stronger a couple of summers ago. Size is not his problem. The problem with Tskitishvili is that he looks good in drills and exhibition games, but he isn't an NBA caliber player when it actually counts.

Sean Marks is a much better NBA player than Tskitishvili, and I don't mean that as a complement to Marks.

Joe Mama

 

[Mainstreet]

Tskitishvili got a lot stronger a couple of summers ago. Size is not his problem. The problem with Tskitishvili is that he looks good in drills and exhibition games, but he isn't an NBA caliber player when it actually counts.

Sean Marks is a much better NBA player than Tskitishvili, and I don't mean that as a complement to Marks.

Joe Mama

Just a quick comment. In Denver, the Nuggets wanted Skita to play center and he put on about 20 pounds to do so, but he apparently was mostly ineffective. As I recall from the articles I read and comments made by D'Antoni, he felt he was carrying too much weight and not playing his game... whatever that may be. Actually, I thought Skita looked great in Denver when he was heavier.

I think Skita needs to carry some extra weight and add strength to be able to play in the NBA, however, I get the opinion he wants to do it his way (hence his bouncing around the league). Skita may be quicker and even more agile at the lower weight (I observed he was carrying in Phoenix), but if a player is not strong enough to play in the NBA, athletic ability will only carry a player only so far.

IMO, Skita does have NBA talent as I have seen him take a couple steps outside the key and be at the basket in a flash, however, he did not have the strength to finish when he gets there. He almost has the reverse problem of Oliver Miller, whose extra weight was hindrance to his NBA career.

IMO, it's a shame. Two great talents whose careers were altered by diverging weight issues. I think if Skita could add at least 10-15 pounds and work on his strength, he still could have a career in the NBA.

However, if I wanted to work on a young project player that I have seen play... I would like to try to develop Lampe. I wouldn't even mind giving Zarko another try if his work ethic has improved. I think Zarko has tremendous upside and athletic talent. However, I think strength is an issue with Zarko as well. I'm not sure how Golden State views his progress.

 

[nowagimp]

Actually Nowagimp, you probably come the closest to understanding what I am trying to say. I feel good about the acquisition of Banks and if the Suns team is healthy come playoff time I will be happy.

My primarily concern is about making a Minor adjustment to the Suns roster. It has nothing to do with TT (he's gone), Amare, Diaw, KT, Marion, whoever. I just want the Suns to add a 4/5 type player for depth in case of injury and/or foul trouble. As long as the player can rebound both offensively and defensively and play a little defense I'm not overly concerned about height. I used Marcus Fizer as just an example of the type player that could help the Suns... an undersized PF that can rebound. He was brought up by another team last season from the NBADL so he was cheap.

I'm just saying the 12th man on the roster need not be a garbage player, but a possible contributor in the right situation. A rebounder who knows his role if called upon to play inside and hit the boards. I just do not see Marks and Burke fulfilling this role. If the Suns don't need such a player because the team is healthy and not in foul trouble, I don't mind if D'Antoni sets him there on the bench. Think of it as an insurance policy for the Reggie Evans of the world or call it as a possible game time adjustment to have such a player.

Other players that come to mind are players like Massenburg or Lonny Baxter. I just know that there are some undersized PF's that are probably going to be waived or are floating around out there looking for a home on the cheap and I would like for the Suns to look at adding such a player for depth at the 4/5.

I just think the Suns can do better than Marks and Burke at the end of the bench. I only want to add a banger to keep them company.

I agree that it would be preferable to get someone other than Marks and Burke, especially in case of injury.

 

[Chaz]

All this talk about adding another big man has me experiencing flashbacks to last summer.

We were in the exact same position last year with our only depth being Grant and Burke and that was before Amare went down for the year.


I don't disagree with the sentiment, I agree complately that we need more depth up front but the most important factor in getting another big forward/center is that he is skilled enough for D'Antoni to actually play him. Otherwise it is all a waste of time and money.

 

[George O'Brien]

All this talk about adding another big man has me experiencing flashbacks to last summer.

We were in the exact same position last year with our only depth being Grant and Burke and that was before Amare went down for the year.


I don't disagree with the sentiment, I agree complately that we need more depth up front but the most important factor in getting another big forward/center is that he is skilled enough for D'Antoni to actually play him. Otherwise it is all a waste of time and money.

It's a serious problem. Most bigs who make it are either rough tough bangers without skills or soft outside shooters. It is hard to describe just how rare a talent like Amare really is.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's a serious problem. Most bigs who make it are either rough tough bangers without skills or soft outside shooters. It is hard to describe just how rare a talent like Amare really is.

George, you got me thinking. Would D'Antoni play a player like Dennis Rodman in his prime and would he be in the starting lineup? I know the answer appears obvious but please bear with me a moment.

Rodman was a great defender and great rebounder but not a good outside shooter nor a prolific scorer. Actually Rodman had a good field goal percentage, but I think most of his points came underneath the basket. I think Dennis Rodman would be a interesting acid test for D'Antoni's offensive philosphy of spacing, especially if Rodman were a starter.

Anyway, I thought I would throw it out there as Rodman could do virtually every thing the Suns want except shoot from the outside and perhaps shoot FT's well. I guess I'm wondering where does D'Antoni draw the line between spacing (shooting) on offense versus the impact of rebounding and defense. I just thought it was worthy of comment because it would give a more clear indication of D'Antoni's coaching philosphy and where he draws the line between offense and defense.

Of course I think D'Antoni would play Rodman. He was a gifted player and athlete. He could also run quite well not to mention his jumping ability. And I think Rodman had enough smarts not to clog the middle. But then could a good defensive center without good offensive skills ever start for the Suns and how would D'Antoni space the floor?

 

[Errntknght]

I don't think a young Dennis Rodman would ever get on the floor for D'Antoni. After he'd gained some muscle, learned how to defend and set picks, and made his rep as a rebounder I suppose D'Antoni would have found some way to get him on the floor but he wouldn't have liked doing it. This would be D'Antoni's instructions for offense, "Take your defender down on the baseline, hold him, bump him, arm wrestle him so he doesn't interfere with our other guys."
- Dennis, "What about setting screens?" - D'A, "Oh I guess, if you feel like it, go ahead."

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think a young Dennis Rodman would ever get on the floor for D'Antoni. After he'd gained some muscle, learned how to defend and set picks, and made his rep as a rebounder I suppose D'Antoni would have found some way to get him on the floor but he wouldn't have liked doing it. This would be D'Antoni's instructions for offense, "Take your defender down on the baseline, hold him, bump him, arm wrestle him so he doesn't interfere with our other guys."
- Dennis, "What about setting screens?" - D'A, "Oh I guess, if you feel like it, go ahead."

I thought it might be an interesting dilemma for D'Antoni, since Rodman in his prime would be starting material. Then I wondered even beyond Dennis Rodman's game. Could a good defensive minded center, but with poor offensive skills, ever start for the Suns (as spacing and shooting is so important to D'Antoni's style)?

 

[George O'Brien]

Rodman makes for a hard discussion because he would get dumped even when playing well due to his off the court antics. For example, in 94-95 he AVERAGED 16.8 RPG with the Spurs and they still moved him to the Bulls.

A better example would be Ben Wallace. I think D'Antoni would turn him into more of an offensive threat if he was on the team, but would never pay the price to get him.

 

[Louis]

Jamaal Magloire is on the trading block in Milwaukee.

"There are still a number of teams we're talking to," Harris said. "We have contacted two or three teams more than once at this point.

"I don't know that there's a resolution, but there are certainly more conversations going on over the last week. Now players are getting signed, free agency is dwindling down and everybody is looking at their rosters.

"As I look at it, the 1 (point guard), 3 (small forward) and 5 (center) are the positions where we can add some depth. Hopefully we can accomplish that with Magloire, if we do trade him."

Magloire is due to make $8.3 million this season and then his contract is off the books.

According to realgm.com, a Jones/KT for Magloire trade works. Maybe throw in Cleveland's first rounder in next season's draft. And the Suns get their first legitimate all-star center in years.

A guy who would be playing for a contract and is 28 years old. So some big things could be expected. Especially moving to a team who is one solid big away from a title run.

And if he doesn't work out, you've got $8.3 million open for Barbosa/Diaw.

Sign Jumaine Jones to a minimum level contract to replace James Jones at the SF slot and the Suns will look mighty good.

Nash - Banks
Bell - Barbosa
Marion - Jones
Amare - Marion - Diaw
Diaw - Magloire

Or start Magloire and bring in Diaw at any position you wish to sub.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Magloire is due to make $8.3 million this season and then his contract is off the books.

According to realgm.com, a Jones/KT for Magloire trade works. Maybe throw in Cleveland's first rounder in next season's draft. And the Suns get their first legitimate all-star center in years.

A guy who would be playing for a contract and is 28 years old. So some big things could be expected. Especially moving to a team who is one solid big away from a title run.

And he doesn't work out, you've $8.3 million open for Barbosa/Diaw.

Sign Jumaine Jones to a minimum level contract to replace James Jones at the SF slot and the Suns will look might good.

Nash - Banks
Bell - Barbosa
Marion - Jones
Amare - Marion - Diaw
Diaw - Magloire

Or start Magloire and bring in Diaw at any position you wish to sub.

I do it for the expiring contract. An extra year with KT off the books, makes it easier on the Suns payroll. The Suns could always try a S&T with another team to try and get something for him when he signs a new contract.

 

[Louis]

I do it for the expiring contract. An extra year with KT off the books, makes it easier on the Suns payroll. The Suns could always try a S&T with another team to try and get something for him when he signs a new contract.

Exactly.

Especially if he does very well, he'd have some good value.

 

[asudevil83]

Magloire is due to make $8.3 million this season and then his contract is off the books.

According to realgm.com, a Jones/KT for Magloire trade works. Maybe throw in Cleveland's first rounder in next season's draft. And the Suns get their first legitimate all-star center in years.

A guy who would be playing for a contract and is 28 years old. So some big things could be expected. Especially moving to a team who is one solid big away from a title run.

And he doesn't work out, you've $8.3 million open for Barbosa/Diaw.

Sign Jumaine Jones to a minimum level contract to replace James Jones at the SF slot and the Suns will look might good.

Nash - Banks
Bell - Barbosa
Marion - Jones
Amare - Marion - Diaw
Diaw - Magloire

Or start Magloire and bring in Diaw at any position you wish to sub.

i've been pushing for something like this for a while.

however, i wouldnt want to throw in any picks for the next draft. if possible, i would rather throw in a 2008 first rounder and probably the 2009 second that Golden State owes us from the Zarko trade.

 

[Mainstreet]

Magloire is due to make $8.3 million this season and then his contract is off the books.

According to realgm.com, a Jones/KT for Magloire trade works. Maybe throw in Cleveland's first rounder in next season's draft. And the Suns get their first legitimate all-star center in years.

A guy who would be playing for a contract and is 28 years old. So some big things could be expected. Especially moving to a team who is one solid big away from a title run.

And he doesn't work out, you've $8.3 million open for Barbosa/Diaw.

Sign Jumaine Jones to a minimum level contract to replace James Jones at the SF slot and the Suns will look might good.

Nash - Banks
Bell - Barbosa
Marion - Jones
Amare - Marion - Diaw
Diaw - Magloire

Or start Magloire and bring in Diaw at any position you wish to sub.

I like the strategy. The Suns might even want to try to keep Magloire after his contract year but I'm sure the price would be high. However, you never know what the following season's roster will look like.

But, since I like it, there must be something wrong with it.

 

[George O'Brien]

The two stats that stands out is Magloire's 9.2 ppg in 30.1 minutes and 53.5% from the free throw line. Per minutes played, he's roughly the same as Dampier.

Jamaal Magloire
Milwaukee Bucks
Position: C
Height: 6-11 Weight: 259
College : Kentucky
Player file | Team stats

2005-06 Statistics
PPG 9.2
RPG 9.5
APG .7
SPG .35
BPG .98
FG% .467
FT% .535
3P% .000
MPG 30.1

Erick Dampier
Dallas Mavericks
Position: C
Height: 6-11 Weight: 265
College : Mississippi State
Player file | Team stats

2005-06 Statistics
PPG 5.7
RPG 7.8
APG .6
SPG .33
BPG 1.29
FG% .493
FT% .591
3P% .000
MPG 23.6