Why do we assume Denny knows talent?

[Cheesebeef]

DG is a good coach...!!! That is all I am trying to say. I am not being negative about anything. and just for you. In the last 5.5 years we have become a people who can find fault with everything, and not much good about anything.

gee, I wonder why that is? Man, you don't think we've become the above because of, say, I don't know, maybe because we shown ourselves to be the worst franchise in sports? Nah, that couldn't be it.

also - not sure if I get this contradicition - but on the one hand, you say DG is a good coach and look what he's brought it, but on the other hand, you say the players are to blame for what's going on? So you have a guy who brought the players in and is their coach, yet the players suck - but somehow the coach is still good? How the hell does that follow in any realm of logic?

 

[Cheesebeef]

DG is a good coach...!!!

what is this based on? The fact that the team - while apparently getting better talent wise over the last three years - has gotten ridiculously progressively worse record wise? Not sure how you can make that argument but I'm sure it'll be an entertaining read.

 

[Russ Smith]

what is this based on? The fact that the team - while apparently getting better talent wise over the last three years - has gotten ridiculously progressively worse record wise? Not sure how you can make that argument but I'm sure it'll be an entertaining read.

the interesting thing is depending on what happens in terms of coaching change, schedule, injuries, player movement etc, I can easily see another coach coming in next year and winning 10 games and everyone going see Green was an idiot.
We've only been outscored by 45 points, about 6 and a half a game. We've lost 3 games by 3 points or less. It's quite easy to think with a year of maturation from Leinart and the other young players this team can start winning some of these close games.

But like you, I don't see anything in the last 3 seasons that suggests that's going to happen under Dennis Green.

 

[AZCB34]

the interesting thing is depending on what happens in terms of coaching change, schedule, injuries, player movement etc, I can easily see another coach coming in next year and winning 10 games and everyone going see Green was an idiot.
We've only been outscored by 45 points, about 6 and a half a game. We've lost 3 games by 3 points or less. It's quite easy to think with a year of maturation from Leinart and the other young players this team can start winning some of these close games.

But like you, I don't see anything in the last 3 seasons that suggests that's going to happen under Dennis Green.

10 wins seems like a stretch to me Russ, but maybe you don't think the cupboard is as bare as I do right now. I just think there are too many holes that, minus some serious coaching up and game-planning ability, will continue to dig this team's grave over and over...holes that are the difference in 3 point losses that could have been wins...holes that don't allow a team to overcome a 6.5 difference per game and turn those L's into W's.

I think there is quite a bit more talent on this roster now than 3 years ago but what is going to hurt is the lack of players that have come out of the last 2 drafts thus far and the next FA period looking to be a real grab bag of mediocrity due to the climb in salary cap. Alot of players are going to suddenly have to step up their games in order for a new coach to get 10 wins out of these guys.

 

[Russ Smith]

10 wins seems like a stretch to me Russ, but maybe you don't think the cupboard is as bare as I do right now. I just think there are too many holes that, minus some serious coaching up and game-planning ability, will continue to dig this team's grave over and over...holes that are the difference in 3 point losses that could have been wins...holes that don't allow a team to overcome a 6.5 difference per game and turn those L's into W's.

I think there is quite a bit more talent on this roster now than 3 years ago but what is going to hurt is the lack of players that have come out of the last 2 drafts thus far and the next FA period looking to be a real grab bag of mediocrity due to the climb in salary cap. Alot of players are going to suddenly have to step up their games in order for a new coach to get 10 wins out of these guys.

Just think Matt will have 12 starts under his belt by next year. he'll be much farther along than he is now. Hopefully we'll have shored up the OL so that we aren't forced to do nothing but short drops, and can run the ball a bit.

It's not easy but it's not impossible to make that leap. Gotta fix the OL, improve in coverage, we have holes for sure but so do most other teams.

 

[AZCB34]

Just think Matt will have 12 starts under his belt by next year. he'll be much farther along than he is now. Hopefully we'll have shored up the OL so that we aren't forced to do nothing but short drops, and can run the ball a bit.

It's not easy but it's not impossible to make that leap. Gotta fix the OL, improve in coverage, we have holes for sure but so do most other teams.

The problem is, those 12 starts will have been in a completely different system than he will be in next year assuming Denny gets the axe. So then you have this whole learning curve thing for the new offense which will set the whole team back...including Matt.

The experience is obviously very good but everyone will be starting back at square 1 again. It's not impossible by any means...just not probable.

 

[Russ Smith]

The problem is, those 12 starts will have been in a completely different system than he will be in next year assuming Denny gets the axe. So then you have this whole learning curve thing for the new offense which will set the whole team back...including Matt.

The experience is obviously very good but everyone will be starting back at square 1 again. It's not impossible by any means...just not probable.

I don't think matt has trouble with concepts and systems. I think he's just getting used to what all NFL rookie QB's get used to, the speed and talent of the players around him. He's thrown 4 picks, 2 were tipped at the line, 2 were outs that got jumped by CB's. He's had a few other balls tipped. I think Matt is just getting used to the fact that in a 3 step drop, NFL DL's are tougher to throw over, and NFL CB's jump routes a lot more than college CB's do.

I watch the difference in Alex Smith in one year and I think while Matt started off at a much higher level, imagine what he'll be like in one year?

Hopefully the biggest adjustment Matt will have to make is more deep drops because we actually have an OL that can pass block on such drops.

Depending on the Ol and the weather I wouldn't be surprised to see Matt over 300 yards passing against Green bay, they allow nearly that much on average this year.

 

[AZCB34]

I don't think matt has trouble with concepts and systems. I think he's just getting used to what all NFL rookie QB's get used to, the speed and talent of the players around him. He's thrown 4 picks, 2 were tipped at the line, 2 were outs that got jumped by CB's. He's had a few other balls tipped. I think Matt is just getting used to the fact that in a 3 step drop, NFL DL's are tougher to throw over, and NFL CB's jump routes a lot more than college CB's do.

I watch the difference in Alex Smith in one year and I think while Matt started off at a much higher level, imagine what he'll be like in one year?

Hopefully the biggest adjustment Matt will have to make is more deep drops because we actually have an OL that can pass block on such drops.

Depending on the Ol and the weather I wouldn't be surprised to see Matt over 300 yards passing against Green bay, they allow nearly that much on average this year.

Matt having a problem with concepts and systems isn't the biggest problem. The problem is, how easily do all the offensive players make the adjustment if a completely new offensive system comes in? If it was just Matt having to adjust, I wouldn't be too worried but everyone will be adjusting on both sdies of the ball.

This is one of the things that always worked so well for Denny in MIN. He was constantly replacing the QB but so many of the other players were carry overs that the adjustment learning curve was smaller than when the entire team is going through it.

The experience isn't going to hurt but a complete offensive philosophy change is going to take time regardless of what Matt learns with his experience. Matt's apparent intelligence is certainly going to help speed things along.

 

[Russ Smith]

Matt having a problem with concepts and systems isn't the biggest problem. The problem is, how easily do all the offensive players make the adjustment if a completely new offensive system comes in? If it was just Matt having to adjust, I wouldn't be too worried but everyone will be adjusting on both sdies of the ball.

I was sort of assuming addition by subtraction(of Green) in that regard.

 

[ajcardfan]

The problem is, how easily do all the offensive players make the adjustment if a completely new offensive system comes in?

I think in the NFL right now there are more similarities between offenses than differences. Everybody runs the same basic sets of plays out of the same formations. One thing I enjoy about college ball is you get to see a lot more variety in schemes on both sides of the ball, but in particular on offense.

I'm not saying there's not a big adjustment to a new staff though. I think it's more in the terminology and philosophy though, than the nuts and bolts of it.

 

[BigDavis75]

Someone said this earlier in the thread and I agree: It is very hard for us as fans to determine what moves DG is solely repsonsible for and what moves Graves/Biwill/scouts are responsible for. It's obvious that the talent has improved since DG's arrival and FAs are actually coming here on a more regular basis (maybe it's just the expanded cap, I don't know for sure) but it is also clear that DG is not the right COACH for the team and that's what really matters. Take the Jets for example, very litttle talent and they are 4-3 while we have a good amount of talent and we are 1-6. It comes down to coaching rather than talent a lot of times and that has become obvious this season.

 

[jstadvl]

look at the passovers other teams have made and the difference the players he's brought in make every week.
If we didn't lose, we'd be highlight film every week.
He knows how to align himself with Graves and scouts and coordinators and he listens to their input. How many busts, out and out busts, per tlented player, has he had. Wendell Bryant!
He's made great moves with the support of the other brain trust.

 

[Shane]

Time to revisit this one again. :roll: