Why Doesn't Dansby Get Any Love?

OP
OP
Reddog

Reddog

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Posts
2,807
Reaction score
323
Location
Scottsdale
Dansby is just average. He finally played to his potential this season. I still remember Dansby missing games over a thumb injury. The only time Dansby started to make you believe that he was going to be great is it was contract time. You don't pay big money to non pro-bowl players who have been average their whole career. Stats do not lie.

Wrong! He was way better than average this year, had a pro bowl caliber year and that is all we have to go on. His age and disposition in terms of his self worth aside.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
I'll never understand posts like these. the guy had his best season this year, but he was ALWAYS a MAJOR playmaker for us, while having some of his biggest games in the playoffs in back to back years.

you know the Seahawks and Niners are so good? Because for the last three years, they've consistently ADDED GREAT talent to their teams. They haven't let big pieces of the puzzle go and tried to fill holes, trying to stay in the same place...or likely taking a step back. This team needs to keep the D in tact and get BETTER if they can. at some point, hopefully this team realizes that.

and the idea that we "replaced" him with Washington is true...but it still left a big hole at the other LB spot which was filled by a mediocre Paris Lenon. We do that again and what was a top 5 defense no longer is.

Me either. I challenge anyone to find more than a couple of LBs who had better overall stats than Dansby did his first 5 years in the NFL. Sacks (24.5), Interceptions (9), Forced Fumbles (10). And now in 2013 he has incredible numbers in passes defensed (19) along with 6.5 sacks 4 picks, two returned for TDs, and over 100 tackles.

Dansby is one of the best LBs at reading what the offense is doing. I don't know how many times I've watched him sniff out a play and shut down one of the opposing QBs options. Can Minter do that? I doubt it. Not for several years at least. And the Cardinals, worth almost a billion dollars, are thinking about letting him walk over 1 year and a million or so in $ ? :bang:
 

vinnymac

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Posts
3,022
Reaction score
0
Wrong! He was way better than average this year, had a pro bowl caliber year and that is all we have to go on. His age and disposition in terms of his self worth aside.

1 year in 10. Let's break the bank for Dansby. So he can have average play by a lb for the next 3 years. I would love to be wrong, but I won't be.
Look at his career average and that is just what his career been, average. Somebody already posted a link on this thread.
 
OP
OP
Reddog

Reddog

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Posts
2,807
Reaction score
323
Location
Scottsdale
1 year in 10. Let's break the bank for Dansby. So he can have average play by a lb for the next 3 years. I would love to be wrong, but I won't be.
Look at his career average and that is just what his career been, average. Somebody already posted a link on this thread.

I have never been a proponent of breaking the bank for him and business reasons may dictate that we don't resign him but to call him average is laughable.
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,512
Reaction score
4,470
I'd also like to say stats may say a tackle is equal, but if one is 2 yards downfield and another is 7, they are not equal.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
1 year in 10. Let's break the bank for Dansby. So he can have average play by a lb for the next 3 years. I would love to be wrong, but I won't be.
Look at his career average and that is just what his career been, average. Somebody already posted a link on this thread.

Far from average. Probably top 10 all time in overall playmaking numbers his first 5 years in the NFL. Highly successful as an OLB in a 4-3 and ILB in a 3-4. He and Derrick Johnson are the two most underrated LBs in the NFL.
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
I'm sure Dansby wants to get paid but I doubt it is outrageous, he was our best defensive player and what looked to be the obvious leader of the defense on the field. It is crap like this that still makes me think the Cards are the same ol' Cards. They are going to let a stud player leave for the second time because they have no urgency and cannot realize that if they truly are playing to win now...you sign Dansby. I'm not knocking Minter but what are we going to do if Washington decides to do something stupid again and get suspended. Hell, I have more faith in Honey Badger staying out of trouble than Washington. That really bites because Washington is an elite player. Oh well, we will just have to take a page out of the old Cardinal handbook of drafting another LB till he gets good and we drag our feet again lol

It has been forecast we may draft a DB with our #1 due to the injury of Honey Badger.
 

GimmedaBall

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Posts
1,626
Reaction score
1,110
Football Nation has Dansby ranked as the 17th ILB for 2013

http://www.footballnation.com/content/nfl-inside-linebacker-rankings-for-2013-season/24644/

This was one of his best years stat wise and he still only performed as the 17th best. That's the answer as to why he is not getting any love. Plenty of other guys deserved All Pro over his stats. Forget the homerism and look at the cold hard #'s. His success was a matter of scheme and the surrounding players. I believe Minter will step in and really provide the hammer vs the run.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
28,283
Reaction score
40,298
Location
Colorado
Good, the Cardinals should let Dansby hit the open market because that is Arizona's best negotiating chip. Dansby's value is relative to what he can get from another team, nothing more. So, the Cardinals have issued a 2 year offer and Dansby wants a 3rd year, that is ok. The Cardinals are banking on the market valuing Dansby less than they do because of his age and because he hasnt produced for them. It's a gamble but one worth taking. If another team does decide to offer Dansby what he is asking, more than likely he will come back to AZ with a chance to beat the offer. At that point, the ball is in our court.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
28,283
Reaction score
40,298
Location
Colorado
Wrong! He was way better than average this year, had a pro bowl caliber year and that is all we have to go on. His age and disposition in terms of his self worth aside.

I have always hated this phrase. Did Dansby have a good year? Yes. Did he make the Pro Bowl? No. Was he chosen as an alternate? No. Was he chosen as an injury replacement? No. Obviously it wasn't a Pro Bowl caliber year then.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,363
Reaction score
68,446
I have always hated this phrase. Did Dansby have a good year? Yes. Did he make the Pro Bowl? No. Was he chosen as an alternate? No. Was he chosen as an injury replacement? No. Obviously it wasn't a Pro Bowl caliber year then.

Your right...it wasn't a Pro-Bowl caliber year...which means he didn't win a popularity contest which is what the Pro-Bowl is.

But it was an ALL-PRO year, which is much more impressive to be named to on the 2nd team.
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,512
Reaction score
4,470
Football Nation has Dansby ranked as the 17th ILB for 2013

http://www.footballnation.com/content/nfl-inside-linebacker-rankings-for-2013-season/24644/

This was one of his best years stat wise and he still only performed as the 17th best. That's the answer as to why he is not getting any love. Plenty of other guys deserved All Pro over his stats. Forget the homerism and look at the cold hard #'s. His success was a matter of scheme and the surrounding players. I believe Minter will step in and really provide the hammer vs the run.

There's many metrics, they all say something different. Which one is right?

Or really, which one is least wrong. This is tough to answer, which is why when reality is denoted as numbers, it behooves everyone regarding anything to look beyond the numbers and notice what it is missing. Because life isn't captured with numbers very accurately.

This article is from Sept 4, 2013, or before this season.

So this is what that site was projecting for this past season based on his 2012 stats.

They were off by just a wee little bit. 16 more solo tackles then they though he'd get combined (24 more total). 3 more INT's. 4 more sacks.

TACK SOLO FF INT SACK
122 114 1 4 6.5

Again not all tackles are equal. Not all sacks come at a poor (say down by 30 or mop up time) or good time. Not all int's are game sealers or momentum flippers.

What we liked from Dansby this year just like from his first tenure here is that his stats come at a good time for the team. Many of his tackles weren't downfield from behind but smacking a guy right at or just past the line. The difference of course is allowing less first downs. I'd rather have a LB who can tackle the guy before the 1st down marker rather then after it, because in the end the stats show the same thing. An equal tackle.

Our run defense was helped by a few factors. Dansby was one of them. Williams, MS, and Ta'amu were others. Can't forget the possibility scheme helped as well... or its effects on DD. CC took another step forward as well.

I was never down on guys like Paris Lenon, good value player if you don't have someone better. Dansby is better.

I don't know what we'll offer or what he'll accept. But I do know I want him on this team. We are better with him. We'll be worse without him.
 
Last edited:

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
20,767
Reaction score
14,686
Location
Chandler, Az
Football Nation has Dansby ranked as the 17th ILB for 2013

http://www.footballnation.com/content/nfl-inside-linebacker-rankings-for-2013-season/24644/

This was one of his best years stat wise and he still only performed as the 17th best. That's the answer as to why he is not getting any love. Plenty of other guys deserved All Pro over his stats.


That was for the 2012-2013 season when he played for Miami. So that was before he had his awesome season with the Cardinals this past year.

These are the NFL inside linebacker rankings entering the 2013 season.


These rankings are based off of an individual's statistics and accomplishments at the end of the 2012-13 season.
 

football karma

Michael snuggles the cap space
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
15,245
Reaction score
14,304
the salary cap has only been inching up the last couple years ( and this coming year as well)

I think teams have become very reticent to give older players big upfront signing bonuses -- we saw it last year and i think it will be the way of the future.

when I see reports of Karlos wanting a 3 year deal -- I read that as Karlos wants a signing bonus in the $10 - 12 mm range.

Just a guess on my part -- but a 3 year deal implies a 3 yr, 12 -14 million contract ( $10-12 up front, vet minimums for three years).

I just have a hard time seeing any team doing that

(which means it will happen on day one of free agency -- heck -- the Dolphins will do it again)
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,363
Reaction score
68,446
the salary cap has only been inching up the last couple years ( and this coming year as well)

I think teams have become very reticent to give older players big upfront signing bonuses -- we saw it last year and i think it will be the way of the future.

when I see reports of Karlos wanting a 3 year deal -- I read that as Karlos wants a signing bonus in the $10 - 12 mm range.

Just a guess on my part -- but a 3 year deal implies a 3 yr, 12 -14 million contract ( $10-12 up front, vet minimums for three years).

I just have a hard time seeing any team doing that

(which means it will happen on day one of free agency -- heck -- the Dolphins will do it again)

Man, that seems like a steal when you compare that deal to what some other guys are making on this team...cut Alexander and Brinkley, add their money to what Los got last year and you're there.

I just fear the loss of the leader/biggest playmaker of the D, especially in light of Washington's continued legal issues and HB's injury.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
I have always hated this phrase. Did Dansby have a good year? Yes. Did he make the Pro Bowl? No. Was he chosen as an alternate? No. Was he chosen as an injury replacement? No. Obviously it wasn't a Pro Bowl caliber year then.

Yeah and playing for the Red Headed Step Child of the NFL in Arizona doesn't have anything to do with it.
 
OP
OP
Reddog

Reddog

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Posts
2,807
Reaction score
323
Location
Scottsdale
Man, that seems like a steal when you compare that deal to what some other guys are making on this team...cut Alexander and Brinkley, add their money to what Los got last year and you're there.

I just fear the loss of the leader/biggest playmaker of the D, especially in light of Washington's continued legal issues and HB's injury.

I also thought Fitz's comments regarding restructuring and specifically calling out wanting to make room for new deals for PP, Dansby and Rucker were interesting. I know he doesn't get to dictate where Keim spends the money. In fact wouldn't it be funny if they shipped him off to New England now that they created a reasonable 2014 nut. It would have to be the NBA to trade away expiring contracts although it doesn't seem Fitz's contract ever expires.
 

GimmedaBall

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Posts
1,626
Reaction score
1,110
CardFan88 and MadCard Disease---Thanks for pointing out my error in not stating that the rating for Dansby was pre-season 2013. How you want to look at the numbers is up for grabs---but they are a start. Here's the other part of the post that I failed to include, Dansby's actual stats by comparison for 2013:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/totalTackles/year/2013/seasontype/2

Dansby's preseason projection was for #17. In the ESPN tally, he's at #20 for defensive players. Puzzling number is the number of assists he is given credit for---only 8???

Check out V. Burficit (spelling) for the top tackler in the league---and EVERYONE passed on this guy based on his combine results.
 
Last edited:

Matt L

formerly known as mattyboy
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
4,380
Reaction score
589
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
CardFan88 and MadCard Disease---Thanks for pointing out my error in not stating that the rating for Dansby was pre-season 2013. How you want to look at the numbers is up for grabs---but they are a start. Here's the other part of the post that I failed to include, Dansby's actual stats by comparison for 2013:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/totalTackles/year/2013/seasontype/2

Dansby's preseason projection was for #17. In the ESPN tally, he's at #20 for defensive players. Puzzling number is the number of assists he is given credit for---only 8???

Check out V. Burficit (spelling) for the top tackler in the league---and EVERYONE passed on this guy based on his combine results.

Burfict was not drafted because he was out of shape for the combine AND because he played like crap his last year at ASU AND because when asked about it, he blamed everyone else for his shortcomings.
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,512
Reaction score
4,470
CardFan88 and MadCard Disease---Thanks for pointing out my error in not stating that the rating for Dansby was pre-season 2013. How you want to look at the numbers is up for grabs---but they are a start. Here's the other part of the post that I failed to include, Dansby's actual stats by comparison for 2013:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/totalTackles/year/2013/seasontype/2

Dansby's preseason projection was for #17. In the ESPN tally, he's at #20 for defensive players. Puzzling number is the number of assists he is given credit for---only 8???

Check out V. Burficit (spelling) for the top tackler in the league---and EVERYONE passed on this guy based on his combine results.

No worries, it can happen to any of us. At first I thought that site was nuts, then I realized the timing of it.

VB started out as a stud at ASU, and I really hoped we'd pick him up when he graduated. Then his craziness took over, the penalties all the time, the drugs, the laziness, the he punched one of his younger and 75 or so lb lighter teammates, and the throwing under the bus of his coaches while being unaccountable. He literally lost games and ruined seasons for ASU all by himself. He was a cancer and an infectious negative influence on his team. He was better as a freshman then he was as a junior. He went from budding star to uninspired back pedaling LB more akin to holding onto a guy and falling down and trying to take the ball carrier with him.

Basically after allowing him to get away with it the whole time Erickson suspended him from the bowl game and rather then take it like a man, he pouted, quit the team, and decided to turn pro.

Then at the combine he was overweight, and threw his coaches under the bus while having what most said were horrible interviews. He also tested positive for pot.

I didn't want him on our team even as an UDFA. Most guys like these never turn it around, and after seeing how his constant penalties snowball into team dysfunction, I didn't want that infecting the Cardinals.

I hoped he would turn it around, but it was one of those things where almost no one that messed up ever does. I'm glad he did. I'm glad he proved me wrong so far. The first year...year and 1/2 at ASU he was amazing. I hope he continues to do well, but he still is prone to a few bonehead penalties from time to time. Though I did feel he got a raw deal on one late last year. (I think it was in the playoffs).

He is the vast exception. Many people around him felt he was a good guy, but for some reason all the above happened and kept happening. I don't know what an accurate estimation is, but I'd guess 99/100 or 999/1000 don't turn it around like he did. He was that out of it. Bengals took the risk, and it was a risk beyond his impact to the cap, which as an UDFA was basically nothing. But potential to team chemistry or in-fighting, that can wreck teams and start something the eventually ends head coaching stints. They reaped the rewards, but next time someone tries such a thing with someone with a similar track record, it probably won't.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,363
Reaction score
68,446
CardFan88 and MadCard Disease---Thanks for pointing out my error in not stating that the rating for Dansby was pre-season 2013. How you want to look at the numbers is up for grabs---but they are a start. Here's the other part of the post that I failed to include, Dansby's actual stats by comparison for 2013:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/totalTackles/year/2013/seasontype/2

Dansby's preseason projection was for #17. In the ESPN tally, he's at #20 for defensive players. Puzzling number is the number of assists he is given credit for---only 8???

Check out V. Burficit (spelling) for the top tackler in the league---and EVERYONE passed on this guy based on his combine results.

so he's 20th in tackles...he's also leading 1st for ILB in sacks, 1st in Passes Defended, 2nd in the league in INTs, and 1st in defensive touchdowns...all while anchoring the middle of the field for the best run defense in the NFL. Those are pretty awesome numbers for anyone and making the 2nd Team All-Pro proves as much.
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,512
Reaction score
4,470
See stats aren't everything. They are an estimation, to make it easier for everyone without having to remember every snap. But alot gets lost in the translation. All sorts of things effect stats. I gave the example of a tackle downfield 7 yards counts the same on a stat sheet as a tackle after a 2 yard gain, but the difference to the team could be huge. Or a sack in a blowout compared to a sack on 3rd and 7 in a tight game.

Then you have to remember our offense was better this year, so our defense wasn't hung out to dry like in previous years. So with less time out on defense even an equal number of tackles compared to say Paris Lenon would actually be a plus.

Then you have so many other factors to consider. What team were they facing? What was the schedule like? Were those teams hot or cold? Injuries impacting the defense? Injuries impacting the opposing offense? The talent level of the personnel? Weather? Was was the playcalling? So on and so forth. There's so much that simply doesn't translate into a stat sheet.

Dansby has always made timely plays. Johnny on the spot. Big plays in big moments. Things like this also can get lost in stats.

I'm not saying stats are worthless, far from it. But I think we do ourselves a disservice if we try to match stats and let that decide things. I agree it's a piece of information, and can be a starting point, but shouldn't be an ending point, unless the differences are awfully skewed to one side. 12 TD's to 2 TD's say for a running back...well yeah that's easy lol. We should understand the differences between the stat sheet and reality can actually be quite large...huge in fact at times. Sometimes they can be pretty spot on. Know what stats tell you, but also know what they don't tell you.

In this instance his stats were far better then they projected, which is one reason why his expected #17 ranking is way off. The run defense. It didn't take into account that he lost weight and toned up, and just perhaps playing around some of the same guys and coming back home in a sense allowed his skills to fit better. Overall I feel he played better then his stats suggest. The INT's and sacks suggest it right imo. But his tackling felt better then the number suggests.

What's funny is how we are talking stats about Dansby, who was complaining about the stat guys not giving him his correct stats, and then that affecting him.

It's complicated, which is why the NFL will pay well for people in the system that can sift through it and make quality choices.
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
20,767
Reaction score
14,686
Location
Chandler, Az
CardFan88 and MadCard Disease---Thanks for pointing out my error in not stating that the rating for Dansby was pre-season 2013. How you want to look at the numbers is up for grabs---but they are a start. Here's the other part of the post that I failed to include, Dansby's actual stats by comparison for 2013:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/totalTackles/year/2013/seasontype/2

Dansby's preseason projection was for #17. In the ESPN tally, he's at #20 for defensive players. Puzzling number is the number of assists he is given credit for---only 8???

Check out V. Burficit (spelling) for the top tackler in the league---and EVERYONE passed on this guy based on his combine results.

No problem. We've all made mistakes like that.

If there is one stat that I hate more than any, it's total tackles. It's a deceiving stat. A player can easily lead the league in total tackles but it doesn't mean a hill of beans if every tackle results in a 5 yard gain. Good defenses force the other offense off the field resulting in less tackles.

For me it's all about the sum of the whole. Is the defender making tackles at or behind the LoS. Is the defender blowing up plays allowing his teammates to easily clean up. Is the defender creating turn overs. You could even throw in leadership and the ability to make defensive adjustments at the line.

If you look at Dansby and what he did for the Cardinals defense this past season you can pretty much check off all of my list. He was tops for ILB with sacks. He made tackles behind the LoS and was disruptive allowing his teammates to make plays as well. He was tops for ILBs with 4 INTs and could of had more. He was tops scoring 2 Defensive TDs. He was also a proven leader of the defense.
 
OP
OP
Reddog

Reddog

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Posts
2,807
Reaction score
323
Location
Scottsdale
CardFan88 and MadCard Disease---Thanks for pointing out my error in not stating that the rating for Dansby was pre-season 2013. How you want to look at the numbers is up for grabs---but they are a start. Here's the other part of the post that I failed to include, Dansby's actual stats by comparison for 2013:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/totalTackles/year/2013/seasontype/2

Dansby's preseason projection was for #17. In the ESPN tally, he's at #20 for defensive players. Puzzling number is the number of assists he is given credit for---only 8???

Check out V. Burficit (spelling) for the top tackler in the league---and EVERYONE passed on this guy based on his combine results.

There is something weird about his assist numbers. Carlos must have a huge chip on his shoulder and feel he is conspired against thus the "No Love". This season he was pissed about the stats per the article below.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/arizon...sby-sounds-off-statistics-151000694--nfl.html
 
Top