Why don't people get it...

[Buckybird]

This is the biggest beef I have with the perception of Leinart. Yeah, he lost the starting job in preseason...but then Warner went on to show the world that he was still the Warner he was 6 years prior. He TOOK THE CARDINALS TO THE SUPERBOWL.

Hello? That's F'n legendary.

I feel sorry for Leinart. Even if he becomes a serviceable (no small feat by anyone's standards) to good to very good QB in the NFL for the next decade he's never going to compare to Warner. What Warner did the last couple of seasons is miraculous.

Living in Denver I watch Bronco fans all the time lamenting that the guy they have under center "is no Elway." No ****? The guy you have isn't a HoFer? Aw, shucks. Bronco fans should be esctatic that they've had guys like Plummer and Cutler at QB. in the decade following Elway.

Decent QBs are hard to come by in the NFL. Good ones even rarer. Warner the last few years? A gift. Let's not thumb our nose at a guy because he couldn't beat out a guy who was a top-5 QB in the twilight of his (mostly) illustrious career.

And that's also the only reason not many peeps outside of the Redbirds & their fans are giving them any shot at winning the West this season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is the biggest beef I have with the perception of Leinart. Yeah, he lost the starting job in preseason...but then Warner went on to show the world that he was still the Warner he was 6 years prior. He TOOK THE CARDINALS TO THE SUPERBOWL.

That's great and all, but Warner didn't look all world in pre-season and Matt just looked like he had no business anywhere the field in his biggest game.

I feel sorry for Leinart. Even if he becomes a serviceable (no small feat by anyone's standards) to good to very good QB in the NFL for the next decade he's never going to compare to Warner. What Warner did the last couple of seasons is miraculous.

I think if Matt takes us to the playoffs, he'll be a hero here. I'm not expecting the second coming of Warner.

Living in Denver I watch Bronco fans all the time lamenting that the guy they have under center "is no Elway." No ****? The guy you have isn't a HoFer? Aw, shucks. Bronco fans should be esctatic that they've had guys like Plummer and Cutler at QB. in the decade following Elway.

Decent QBs are hard to come by in the NFL. Good ones even rarer. Warner the last few years? A gift. Let's not thumb our nose at a guy because he couldn't beat out a guy who was a top-5 QB in the twilight of his (mostly) illustrious career.

Again, it wasn't that Matt didn't "beat him out", he just looked atrocious in that game... like he didn't even belong in the league. And unfortunately, in the overwhelming majority of his appearances since, he's looked really shaky as well. And yes, some of those were him coming in off the bench, but QBs come in off the bench all the time and don't turn the ball over and look as shaky as he did every time.

Just saying, he's proven very little so far.

 

[Pariah]

Just saying, he's proven very little so far.

I agree--he's proven little either way. For every terrible game he's had he's also had games where he's looked like he could be going places.

I certainly didn't mean to call you out in particular, Cheese. I just get tired of hearing how he couldn't beat out Warner two years ago. I don't care how Warner looked or didn't look in a couple of pre-season games--Whiz saw him every day and I have to believe (based on the way he played in these last couple of seasons) that Leinart didn't simply lose the starting job, Warner took it from him.

 

[JeffGollin]

1. Regarding the trade-off between Warner and Lienart - Each year, you win a few; you lose a few (i.e. you get stronger in some areas and weaker in others).

2. Trying to compare the Cardinals under Warner last year vs. Leinart this year will be difficult because Matt didn't play much these past 2 years; so we can't be sure what we'll be getting (most notably where he made tangible progress in learning his craft - because most of that stuff has been happening on the practice field away from our prying eyes).

3. As a result, I think we'll be pleasantly surprised that he can execute as well or better Kurt in some areas and conversely disappointed about a few blind spots in other areas of his game. Thing of it is, though, is that at this point, we can't effectively predict yet what Matt's game will be like once he takes the field.

4. And if we can't predict what Leinart will actually be like, we can't predict what the rest of our offense will be like. For example, I would not be totally shocked if Matt demonstrated lights-out ability as a passer and our offensive attack wound up being closer to what we've had for the past two years.

Or not.

5. More and more, I'm thinking that the "national superstars of pundrity" overcover the Niners and Seattle and undercover the Cardinals because it's fun to visit SF, both SF and Seattle are more pleasant than AZ in the summer and the airline schedules make it easier to fly in and out of SF and the Pacific Northwest.

6. Point of illustration - The national media is more than willing to automatically assume there will be a big fall-off from Warner to Leinart while simultaneously assuming that Alex Smith and Matt Hasselbeck will have big years, Pete Carroll will turn everything around in an instant and that the two rookie Niner offensive linemen will become instant pro-bowlers. (Oh if things were always that easy).

The reality is that the QB situations on all three teams are equally unsettled (not that they're identical - just that how well Leinart, Smith and Hasselbeck will lead their teams are equally open to question).

7. Also, I'm more inclined to examine total rosters than to isolate the QB position as some sort of end-all. Just curious but (a) who's replacing Walter Jones in Seattle? and (b) other than Clements, what answers do the Niners have at CB to stop our passing offense?

My point - There are lots of questions to be answered, but all in all, I don't feel any more or less excited or anxious about our chances than I have in during the past 2 years.

 

[Duckjake]

I agree--he's proven little either way. For every terrible game he's had he's also had games where he's looked like he could be going places.

I certainly didn't mean to call you out in particular, Cheese. I just get tired of hearing how he couldn't beat out Warner two years ago. I don't care how Warner looked or didn't look in a couple of pre-season games--Whiz saw him every day and I have to believe (based on the way he played in these last couple of seasons) that Leinart didn't simply lose the starting job, Warner took it from him.

That is 100% correct. I just don't understand how people keep overlooking the incredible second half of 2007 that Warner had once Leinart was injured. Kurt was one TD pass from tying the franchise record for TD passes in a full season despite starting only 10 games! That carried over into 2008 and was imo far more of a factor in who started at QB than a couple of preseason games.

 

[Bobcat]

Can a team win without a great quarterback? Sure, but they better have a top flight defense. Not sure we fit that category.

You are so wrong on this one. How about the RAVENS. Who was their QB when they won the SUPER BOWL. Trent Dilfer he now is an announcer on ESPN. What year will he make the Hall of Fame...???

Some of you guys on this forum really should appreciate Matt L., he will lead us to a Super Bowl. Once we get another Corner on our defense side of the ball. With our new and improved O-Line. Our running game will improve and this will allow Matt to excels.

BOBCAT

 

[Shane]

You are so wrong on this one. How about the RAVENS. Who was their QB when they won the SUPER BOWL. Trent Dilfer he now is an announcer on ESPN. What year will he make the Hall of Fame...???

Some of you guys on this forum really should appreciate Matt L., he will lead us to a Super Bowl. Once we get another Corner on our defense side of the ball. With our new and improved O-Line. Our running game will improve and this will allow Matt to excels.

BOBCAT

ummmmm did you even read the post you quoted? He stated exactly what you did. That you better have a top flight defense. AKA the Dilfer lead Ravens.

 

[JeffGollin]

The beauty of pro football is that it's a team sport with all kinds of combinations of things that can win you a championship or, conversely, get you beat.

Sometimes a great QB is the key to success. Other times takes a system-QB surrounded by a quality supporting cast. Or maybe it's a great defense linked to a strong inside running game. Or it's set up to be a grind-it-out team expected to win a bunch of wind/snow games. Or it's loaded with track stars who excel on a home turf field behind a QB who can throw the deep ball.

There are no rules - just a lot of different combinations of factors (including quirky matchups with other teams).

 

[8ndkorner]

That's great and all, but Warner didn't look all world in pre-season and Matt just looked like he had no business anywhere the field in his biggest game.



I think if Matt takes us to the playoffs, he'll be a hero here. I'm not expecting the second coming of Warner.



Again, it wasn't that Matt didn't "beat him out", he just looked atrocious in that game... like he didn't even belong in the league. And unfortunately, in the overwhelming majority of his appearances since, he's looked really shaky as well. And yes, some of those were him coming in off the bench, but QBs come in off the bench all the time and don't turn the ball over and look as shaky as he did every time.

Just saying, he's proven very little so far.

Exactly.

 

[Duckjake]

Exactly.

Not exactly. See my earlier post regarding Warner's performance the last half of 2007.

We also can't overlook what Warner was able to accomplish with Whisenhunt versus what happened under Denny Green. Ken is the huge variable in the Leinart equation.

 

[Buckybird]

Sometimes a great QB is the key to success. Other times takes a system-QB surrounded by a quality supporting cast. Or maybe it's a great defense linked to a strong inside running game. Or it's set up to be a grind-it-out team expected to win a bunch of wind/snow games. Or it's loaded with track stars who excel on a home turf field behind a QB who can throw the deep ball.

There are no rules - just a lot of different combinations of factors (including quirky matchups with other teams).

...yet the majority of the time, winning a Super Bowl requires a great QB especially today because of the rules. Being good or great usually comes down to having a star QB.

 

[Duckjake]

...yet the majority of the time, winning a Super Bowl requires a great QB especially today because of the rules. Being good or great usually comes down to having a star QB.

Very true. The league's best passers have been winning.

Getting to the game is a different story. Since 1998 the following QBs have led their team to the big game: Chris Chandler, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhomme, Donavan McNabb, Rex Grossman and Matt Hasselbeck.

Meanwhile when was the last time the NFL's leading rusher played in the SB?

Shaun Alexander in 2005. I believe the only time the NFL's leading rusher has played in the SB this century.

 

[Buckybird]

Very true. The league's best passers have been winning.

Getting to the game is a different story. Since 1998 the following QBs have led their team to the big game: Chris Chandler, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhomme, Donavan McNabb, Rex Grossman and Matt Hasselbeck.

Duck, notice anything about the names you just listed? They all lost the big one!!!

Since '98 lets look at the Super Bowl winning QB's:

Brees
Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
P Manning
Roethlisberger
Brady
Brady
B Johnson
Brady
Dilfer
Warner
Elway
Elway

Out of those 13 years only 2 & possibly 3 (Eli could still) aren't considered great. Looking at all 44 Super Bowl winners even prove the theory correct. I don't think it's a coencidence that the only time the Cards advanced to the big one they had a HOF QB leading them there. With that said the chances aren't good the Redbirds ever win a Super Bowl title without a great QB at the helm. Hope Leinarts the guy...

 

[Yuma]

I think Leinart showed he had the stuff to be very good his first year. Then he had a sophomore slump and injury. In San Diego Rivers sat behind Brees and learned a lot about being a QB. I think Leinart had the same opportunity with Warner. I think Leinart may open some eyes this season.

 

[Buckybird]

I think Leinart may open some eyes this season.

he better have a pretty good season or he likely will be sporting a differant jersey next season.

 

[Bobcat]

ummmmm did you even read the post you quoted? He stated exactly what you did. That you better have a top flight defense. AKA the Dilfer lead Ravens.

You r so right. But I really think that Matt will surprise all of us and lead us to the SuperBowl. And Yes we will win it all.

BOBCAT

 

[Fiasco]

By good, I mean the one who did enough to beat a red hot Tennessee team last year.

I see mention of Leinarts performance in the Titans game last year as proof of something all the time.

His performance was OK and the defense ultimately let him down.

What he did right: distributed the ball to alot of different receivers.

What he did wrong: failed to ice the game twice at the end with stalled drives and he missed some wide open receivers who burned coverage electing to dump the ball short instead (this is something you are not going to see watching the game on television). Both of these could be partially attibuted to lack of practice with the 1st stringers.

Ultimately, the game isn't proof of anything positive or negative with regard to Leinart's future success.

IMHO, Leinarts future success rests more squarely on the shoulders of Wells and Hightower than it does on his own. Simply managing the game and minimizing critical mistakes/turnovers should bring success for Leinart and the team in what I see as being the most potent Cardinals rushing offense we have seen in decades.

 

[Buckybird]

IMHO, Leinarts future success rests more squarely on the shoulders of Wells and Hightower than it does on his own.

Really? O ye of little faith. I think this team will chunk the rock more than you & many here think. Remember, Wiz must find out the season whether #7 is the answer past this season & we still have quite the weapons at WR.

 

[Fiasco]

Really? O ye of little faith. I think this team will chunk the rock more than you & many here think. Remember, Wiz must find out the season whether #7 is the answer past this season & we still have quite the weapons at WR.

And Wiz, being the even keeled calm guy he is will ramp Leinart up gradually

 

[Duckjake]

I see mention of Leinarts performance in the Titans game last year as proof of something all the time.

His performance was OK and the defense ultimately let him down.

What he did right: distributed the ball to alot of different receivers.

What he did wrong: failed to ice the game twice at the end with stalled drives and he missed some wide open receivers who burned coverage electing to dump the ball short instead (this is something you are not going to see watching the game on television). Both of these could be partially attibuted to lack of practice with the 1st stringers.

Ultimately, the game isn't proof of anything positive or negative with regard to Leinart's future success.

IMHO, Leinarts future success rests more squarely on the shoulders of Wells and Hightower than it does on his own. Simply managing the game and minimizing critical mistakes/turnovers should bring success for Leinart and the team in what I see as being the most potent Cardinals rushing offense we have seen in decades.

The Leinart we are going to see this fall is the one who played Christmas Eve 2006 against the 4and9ers. 69% completion rate. 12.45 yards per attempt and a 137 QB rating in a 26-20 Cardinal win!