Why dont they play White more?

[Goldfield]

???

I dont understand why he hasnt been playing. Unless he is still bothered from his finger...


He needs to be out there, he adds alot of tuffness to our team when he is out there...

 

[green machine]

I don't think anyone knows. He gives toughness, good rebounding, and he doesn't seem to do stupid things.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

His hands of stone are a real problem. If he had good hands, he could be a real threat.

 

[Yuma]

I didn't see the Minnesota fiasco, but the game before that he got two fouls early in the first quarter, Jake came in and gave them a spark. Then Jake got two quick fouls. In came Williams, who was on fire with his shot, at one point he was 6-6 from the field, and we were having trouble scoring. I think if we can't get the ball into the hole, FJ is going to rotate all the guys, including our 4 headed center position, yes he has been playing Googs in the center rotation, to see if anyone can hit a shot.

 

[newfan101]

Scott Williams has been on fire, and White's finger isn't quite right. Eventually, when Williams cools off and White's healthier, he'll get more minutes.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by newfan101
Scott Williams has been on fire, and White's finger isn't quite right. Eventually, when Williams cools off and White's healthier, he'll get more minutes.

Exactly. I don't think there have been any problems with the center rotation as of late. In fact I would go as far as to say it's one of the things from Johnson has done right.

Joe

 

[jbeecham]

White has hurt the team with his inability to actually grab a rebound. I'm hoping this is just because of his injured pinky, but most of the time the ball just bounces off of his hands and into the hands of the other team for an easy layup. He really hasn't shown me anything since his 1st 2 games here.

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by jbeecham
White has hurt the team with his inability to actually grab a rebound.

In our most recent game vs. Minnesota, Jahidi had 3 boards in his 8 minutes of playing time. For the game, his rebounds-to-minutes was the best of all the Suns that night.

Granted, it's a small sample. But that's the point. Was he brought here to be the #3 Center and get 8 minutes of playing time?

It's the Big Jake syndrome all over again. They bring in a legitimate power Center, get our hopes up, and give up on him rather than develop him.

The Suns simply don't like big bodies. 'Never have.

I've gotta believe that we'd be a stronger team with White and Voskuhl manning the Center position for 48 minutes, and Scott Williams backing up Amare at Power Forward (and as 3rd Center). And, at this stage of his career, Googs as the 4th Center and 3rd Power Forward, if needed.

 

[George O'Brien]

Against Boston

Against Boston, White had 7 rebounds in 15 minutes. Maybe White's finger is still bothering him, but he does seem to be able to rebound.

I can see the Suns using White in their zone press. The biggest threat for the zone press it giving up layups, so having White back there may discourage guys from running into a brick wall.

Overall, I suspect the Suns would like to see White lose about 10 to 15 pounds and become a bit quicker on his feet. If he works on his conditioning and his low post moves, he could start getting a lot more minutes.

 

[jbeecham]

White seems to have the reaction time of a turtle. I've seen numerous plays when a loose ball or rebound is close to him and he just can't even get close to get it. He may get some rebounds, but if he could catch the ball then he'd have about 4 more rebounds in the small amount of time he plays and he'd probably have 4-6 more points of easy layups/dunks.

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

Originally posted by jbeecham
White seems to have the reaction time of a turtle.

Yeah he's pretty useless against a lot of the centers in the nba because most of them are so agile and quick now. I think he'll do fine standing under the rim when shaq dunks on him though. He is really effective when he's right under the rim and he gets a perfect pass but uder that he's just a big scary guy.

 

[Joe Mama]

I still think part of the problem is White's bad hand. We heard he had hands of stone at the time of the trade, but the first couple of games with Phoenix he looked fine. I like Jahidi White's ability to set picks and create space in the middle. I do have to admit however that he makes be nervous when he is running around setting picks because I'm just waiting for the whistle to blow.

My only problem with White is that he needs to learn when to kick the ball back out instead of getting his shot blocked. Either that or he needs to develop a nice little hook shot to get the ball over taller players.

Joe Mama

 

[zett]

Originally posted by BC867
In our most recent game vs. Minnesota, Jahidi had 3 boards in his 8 minutes of playing time. For the game, his rebounds-to-minutes was the best of all the Suns that night.

Granted, it's a small sample. But that's the point. Was he brought here to be the #3 Center and get 8 minutes of playing time?

It's the Big Jake syndrome all over again. They bring in a legitimate power Center, get our hopes up, and give up on him rather than develop him.

The Suns simply don't like big bodies. 'Never have.

I've gotta believe that we'd be a stronger team with White and Voskuhl manning the Center position for 48 minutes, and Scott Williams backing up Amare at Power Forward (and as 3rd Center). And, at this stage of his career, Googs as the 4th Center and 3rd Power Forward, if needed.

B.C. I actually thought I was going to see you contribute something to an actuall conversation! Don't you ever get tired of every single post being a slam against the suns and there centers? I sure do and sure alot of others do as well.

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

I don't think the suns would mind playing osmeone like lil jake 48 mins if he didn't foul out all the time. I see why you guys like him now. I haven't been able to see many games and when i did see him I wasn't impressed by him taking his weak stuff to the hoop after he gets a nice pass from marbury are penny. The nets game showed me that he is capable of taking it up strong. You guys have to admit he does go up soft a lot of times. Its frustating because he usually has such good position. Since he won't get the call he might as well take it up as strong as he can or bulk up after the seasons over.

 

[George O'Brien]

Big Men

The Suns got Jake for a throwaway player a few years ago from the Bulls and has played much better than expected. Jake's problem is that he is:

a. Not very strong
b. Not very agile
c. Not very long
d. Has only moderate ball handling skills

What he does have is a lot of heart and plays hard all the time. His programss feels awfully slow, but he does keep improving. There are a lot of very good teams that do no have a backup as good Little Jake.

Jake's only problem is that he is not really a starter type of player.
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If you look at White's statistics with the Wizzards, he had great rebounds per minutes and an excellant shooting percentage. Unfortunately, he tended to get injured a lot and probably never got into top condition which may be why he seemed so foul prone.

I am not prepared to give up on White just because he has not blended in as quickly as I would have liked. I wish the Suns had more time to work on fundimentals with guys like White and teach him better footwork.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do the Colangeos hate big men? I have not seen much evidence of it. Have they passed on a great big man in the draft when I wasn't looking? Did they trade away someone who became a star somewhere else? Did they turn down a trade for a big man that was not vastly over priced or already losing their skills?

One of the problems with generally getting into the playoffs is that it means the Suns rarely get a chance to draft a stud. I have always been suspicious of how the Spurs ACCIDENTLY have terrible years right before David Robineson and Tim Duncan came out. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced there is a dominate big man coming out in the draft next year no matter what the draft position.

 

[Joe Mama]

I don't know George. I would say Jake Voskuhl is pretty agile for big men. I would also say that it has pretty good hands, although that might be because I'm comparing those hands to guys like Big Jake and Jahidi White.

IMO Jake Voskuhl is a nice backup center. Sure it would be nice if he was a little bit better scorer, but pickers can't be choosers. It really only has a few deficiencies. He is a bit undersized, and he isn't very strong. He's done a great job for the Phoenix Suns however.

I wish he would show Amare Stoudemire and some of the others how to attack the basket without the ball.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

I said I thought Little Jake is a fine backup center.

His hands have improved, but he is still very easily stripped of the ball. He seems to be getting stronger, but no enough to leave him alone against most centers. His scoring has improved greatly, although he is till hopeless beyond about 5 feet.

I like Jake, but the Suns need more if they are going to ever become a contender.

 

[Dr. Dumas]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
I said I thought Little Jake is a fine backup center.

His hands have improved, but he is still very easily stripped of the ball. He seems to be getting stronger, but no enough to leave him alone against most centers. His scoring has improved greatly, although he is till hopeless beyond about 5 feet.

I like Jake, but the Suns need more if they are going to ever become a contender.

If everyone else on this Suns team had the energy and effort that Jake does, I could see this team being a contender right now. He cuts to the basket very well. Plays good defense, sets good picks, plays the pick & roll great, cheers when he is sitting on the bench-this guy does a little bit of everything.

 

[Chaplin]

For once, center isn't our gaping problem. Outside of injuries, our biggest problem is consistency at the 2-guard spot.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Chaplin
For once, center isn't our gaping problem. Outside of injuries, our biggest problem is consistency at the 2-guard spot.

I agree, and I would add in consistency at the small forward position as well. Up until Saturday's game in New Jersey Shawn Marion had been very inconsistent.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Back to White

The HoopsHype p;rofile of White is as follows:

"Only Shaq could challenge Jahidi White in a thoracic perimeter contest. He is really, really wide... Moves well dispite his size...Good leaper...Excellant rebounder and shot blocker...Raw offensively."http://www.hoopshype.com/players/jahidi_white.htm

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by zett
B.C. I actually thought I was going to see you contribute something to an actuall conversation! Don't you ever get tired of every single post being a slam against the suns and there centers? I sure do and sure alot of others do as well.

Weren't you hoping, as most of us were, that Jahidi would be given the chance to be more than a third-string Center?

 

[Chaplin]

Here's a question--why exactly did they activate Trybanski off the injured list? It's not like they're going to use him or anything. Z, Amare and Trybanski could have been our injured list, easily. FJ doesn't play Archibald, and he sure doesn't play our 3 centers too much, so what's the point in activating Trybanski?

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Here's a question--why exactly did they activate Trybanski off the injured list? It's not like they're going to use him or anything. Z, Amare and Trybanski could have been our injured list, easily. FJ doesn't play Archibald, and he sure doesn't play our 3 centers too much, so what's the point in activating Trybanski?

Chap, that was the same thing I just asked on the Orlando thread

 

[Errntknght]

It's too bad we got Jahidii when we did... I like him for the team but we needed a good half a season when FJ absolutely had to rely on Voskuhl. You just can't give our 'coach' many guys at one position or he'll screw them all up.
Jake isn't the second coming by any means but with a steady diet of playing alongside the starters he'd have a chance to get into the flow of the offense. If he was needed on the floor for long stints he'd be pressed to learn how to not make so many silly fouls. He did stop fouling guards so much out on the perimenter when he was starting this year. One thing he still does is keep his hands low and use them to make space, which refs love to call. And it makes it easy for opponets to flop which they do as soon as they feel his hands in their back.
He's made good progress attacking the basket when he has a seam - that quick two-handed flush is not getting blocked much, you notice. He needs to develope a baby hook or fall-away shot for the times he's in too much traffic after a rebound since he gets too many put backs blocked or gets jostled and misses. And he'd be really solid if he could add a 12-15 foot jump shot and get some confidence in it - I don't think he'll ever get that if he's worrying about the coach yanking him if he misses a few. The way to build confidence for a player like him is tell him he's required to take that kind of shot if he's open - that you'll bench him if he doesn't take it!

Of course, Frankie could have kept Jake as the starter and continued his minutes, letting Jahidi work his way into the lineup but dufas has no sense... just like when he put JJ into the starting rotation based on summer league play.