Why I don't want Durant

[Covert Rain]

None of it is "the same". We've swung for the fences before. We've failed before. We swung for the fences again. We've failed again. But this time we've mortgaged much of our future and will have no choice but to go through a full rebuild IMO. It would be best if we started selling off assets this season but I highly doubt we'll be that proactive. We might not even do it in the offseason, instead we'll likely cling to the dim hope that bandaids will repair a roster that needs a more aggressive surgical approach.

When is the last time we had our own Superstar and pulled out all the financial stops to bring in another superstar? I mean we brought in Barkley but there was no other Superstar on the roster. We brought in Nash but Shaq was over the hill and doesn't count. I mean it's not like this team has swung for the fences that many times in it's history compared to the slow build process, the retool process. Those scenarios are not even close.

 

[Phrazbit]

When is the last time we had our own Superstar and pulled out all the financial stops to bring in another superstar? I mean we brought in Barkley but there was no other Superstar on the roster. We brought in Nash but Shaq was over the hill and doesn't count. I mean it's not like this team has swung for the fences that many times in it's history compared to the slow build process, the retool process. Those scenarios are not even close.

KJ had more accolades than Booker at the time of the Barkley trade and we had Majerle who was an all-star.

But that is beside the point.

The track record for these "all-in, youth and years of picks" trades are abysmal, and typically they are done for a dude in their prime, not a 35 year old who misses 40 games a year.

The moment we made the trade our window was limited to just a few years, and we had almost no supporting cast and virtually no way to build one.

 

[Covert Rain]

KJ had more accolades than Booker at the time of the Barkley trade and we had Majerle who was an all-star.

But that is beside the point.

The track record for these "all-in, youth and years of picks" trades are abysmal, and typically they are done for a dude in their prime, not a 35 year old who misses 40 games a year.

Right we had stars but not Superstars. Barkley was the only Superstar on that team. People here are obsessed with the picks. You hit the nail on the head about "years of picks".

 

[Hoop Head]

Right we had stars but not Superstars. Barkley was the only Superstar on that team. People here are obsessed with the picks. You hit the nail on the head about "years of picks".

There's maybe 4-5 superstars in the league. Guys who make teams contenders or favorites most nights. KD isn't one anymore. He's a star, a very good one, but he's not making any team a contender on his own and swinging a playoff series by being present like Jokic, Embiid, or Giannis.

 

[Covert Rain]

There's maybe 4-5 superstars in the league. Guys who make teams contenders or favorites most nights. KD isn't one anymore. He's a star, a very good one, but he's not making any team a contender on his own and swinging a playoff series by being present like Jokic, Embiid, or Giannis.

Nobody claimed KD could do it on his own. Nobody said that. He was supposed to be the missing piece. On the right team he is absolutely still that player based on how he is playing this year. Maybe not this team but on a legit contender? Absolutely........provided he can stay healthy which I know is a big if.

 

[Phrazbit]

Right we had stars but not Superstars. Barkley was the only Superstar on that team. People here are obsessed with the picks. You hit the nail on the head about "years of picks".

Even without all the picks, building a supporting cast in the very brief window we have was going to be extremely difficult.

We gave up too much in players, too much in picks and the mistake is compounded by KD, despite good individual scoring numbers, not having anywhere near the superstar impact that was expected.

But, that can't be too surprising because he is 35 years old.

We gambled on Beal, a gamble I supported, but we appear to have been burned bad on that one too. His last 2 years in Washington don't look like the fluke we'd hoped they were.

 

[Chaplin]

Thus is possibly the dumbest thread on ASFN. Of course KD is going to be blasted. What's the argument? Seems like the only argument is about whether he's washed or not.

 

[Hoop Head]

Thus is possibly the dumbest thread on ASFN. Of course KD is going to be blasted. What's the argument? Seems like the only argument is about whether he's washed or not.

I'm not surprised you missed the point but this thread was created last off season when the KD rumors started and were discussing the enormous price the Suns would pay. There was a chance it worked well but a more likely chance it didn't. It appears it didn't work and we're seeing some of the cost now as we're strapped for assets to improve this team. No one is blaming KD directly for that. He's a 35 year old future Hall of Famer but his best years are behind him and we don't have a team around him that can compete and we can't build one due to the exorbitant cost we paid for him. So what was the use of trading for him? To gamble? Ok. Great gamble. Now we're stuck with an awful team that's going nowhere for next half decade or so since it will take that long to finally pay the price that we did for KD.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Even ignoring the gargantuan draft assets we gave up, we'd be a better team with Cam and Bridges than Durant, right now. Sometimes the whole is better than the sum of it's parts.

We gutted the depth, we gutted defense, we gutted the chemistry, we gutted the ball movement, we gutted the accountability and leadership, to cap it all off, he has been utter dog crap in the clutch... the area we supposedly needed fixing the most.

Maybe something drastic will change, but this team is clearly a far far worse team than it has been in years and the trade for Durant is the reason.

Beyond all that... he's 35... thirty freaking five years old... and he is constantly injured. He hasn't even had his annual injury yet and things are this bad.

I’m not sure we would. We still wouldn’t have a pg. we still would have nurkic. I don’t think a

Book
Beal (if he even forced way his way here)
Bridges
Cam
Nurkic

Team is materially different than our current iteration.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not true. Go back and look at our record "with Cam and Bridges". We were dominant with both of those players. The problem is, Cam was out so much along with several other players and that's when we struggled. And I'm not saying we win it all if we had only kept those two guys but I don't think getting rid of our younger players and much of our draft potential is going to get us there either.

IMO, we tried for a miracle fix and it's not looking good right now. We'd have likely been better off not trying to shortcut the process but I doubt we'd have seen a title short term that way either.

Except this ignores we had a point guard and Ayton. And while those two weren’t lighting it up this years team would’ve have been a totally different team around them.

 

[Phrazbit]

I’m not sure we would. We still wouldn’t have a pg. we still would have nurkic. I don’t think a

Book
Beal (if he even forced way his way here)
Bridges
Cam
Nurkic

Team is materially different than our current iteration.

It's way better on defense and likely has far better ball movement.

This team has zero chemistry. On offense, off the ball dudes just stand around, on defense hardly anyone can keep their man in front of them, lately it seems like they don't even try.

 

[Hoop Head]

I’m not sure we would. We still wouldn’t have a pg. we still would have nurkic. I don’t think a

Book
Beal (if he even forced way his way here)
Bridges
Cam
Nurkic

Team is materially different than our current iteration.

Who says we make the same Aaron trade if the KD deal doesn't happen? Basically every move post KD would be different. We could have made a play for Lillard if we needed a PG rather than facilitating his move to Milwaukee. We would have had better picks, a player Portland wanted in Ayton, and plenty of filler. I know Lillard didn't have us listed as a destination but he didn't have Milwaukee either. We had no assets whatsoever to deal for Lillard so him saying he wants to be in
Phoenix wouldn't make sense.

The whole construction of this team would be vastly different without the KD trade.

 

[Yuma]

I'm not surprised you missed the point but this thread was created last off season when the KD rumors started and were discussing the enormous price the Suns would pay. There was a chance it worked well but a more likely chance it didn't. It appears it didn't work and we're seeing some of the cost now as we're strapped for assets to improve this team. No one is blaming KD directly for that. He's a 35 year old future Hall of Famer but his best years are behind him and we don't have a team around him that can compete and we can't build one due to the exorbitant cost we paid for him. So what was the use of trading for him? To gamble? Ok. Great gamble. Now we're stuck with an awful team that's going nowhere for next half decade or so since it will take that long to finally pay the price that we did for KD.

I agree BECAUSE, EVERY move is a gamble. It's high odds for ANY team to win an NBA Championship. The odds are actually against ANY trade working. It's rare when it does. Lebron going to LA worked because they got a ring. KD to SF worked because they got multiple rings. There are hundreds of trades that never work. The only thing you can do is look at your team at the time of the trade and analyze will this trade give us a better chance or not. Clearly the Suns thought the KD trade did that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ironically, the Suns had all the pieces set to improve the team prior to last season's trade deadline moves.

It's horrible to think the Suns those moves and subsequent moves lead the Suns to start over.

Curious what those were?

An aytin who brought us a whopping Nurk little and Allen? That wouldn’t have made that team much better.

Bridges? He may have continued to improve but he was always deferential in boomers presence and he was never going to become a pippen.

Cam Johnson? He’s 27 years old already and always hurt.

Those draft picks? If this team was going to be a 48-55 win team those picks were going to either be traded for more shamets or late round guys and jJ didn’t have a stellar draft rep as it is.

So where was the big uptick coming from?

 

[Yuma]

Curious what those were?

An aytin who brought us a whopping Nurk little and Allen? That wouldn’t have made that team much better.

Bridges? He may have continued to improve but he was always deferential in boomers presence and he was never going to become a pippen.

Cam Johnson? He’s 27 years old already and always hurt.

Those draft picks? If this team was going to be a 48-55 win team those picks were going to either be traded for more shamets or late round guys and jJ didn’t have a stellar draft rep as it is.

So where was the big uptick coming from?

EXACTLY!

 

[Chaplin]

I'm not surprised you missed the point but this thread was created last off season when the KD rumors started and were discussing the enormous price the Suns would pay. There was a chance it worked well but a more likely chance it didn't. It appears it didn't work and we're seeing some of the cost now as we're strapped for assets to improve this team. No one is blaming KD directly for that. He's a 35 year old future Hall of Famer but his best years are behind him and we don't have a team around him that can compete and we can't build one due to the exorbitant cost we paid for him. So what was the use of trading for him? To gamble? Ok. Great gamble. Now we're stuck with an awful team that's going nowhere for next half decade or so since it will take that long to finally pay the price that we did for KD.

Nice personal attack. Kudos.

 

[Yuma]

If Bridges, Ayton, Cam Johnson, and CP3 all performed better, there would have been no trades. We would have won the Larry O'Brien trophy and this all would be a moot point.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I’m not sure we would. We still wouldn’t have a pg. we still would have nurkic. I don’t think a

Book
Beal (if he even forced way his way here)
Bridges
Cam
Nurkic

Team is materially different than our current iteration.

That team is just as painfully mediocre as this one and anyone believing otherwise is smoking crack. Because what that team really is is:

Book
Gordon
Bridges
Cam
Nurk.

And Beal never forces his way to that team. It was the combo of KD/Book, which hadn’t proved a failure yet that made that happen. The Booker/Bridges/Cam team would have been coming off their likely third straight playoff failure with worse results every year. Book/KD provided hope for the immediate future… looks like false hope, but hope. That wasn’t happening with Book/Bridges, especially if Bridges continued crapping in his playoff shorts like he has every chance he’s been in them.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I would have given them the picks and filler or I would have given them Mikal/CamJ along with a couple of protected picks or I wouldn't have made a deal. The difference is that some of you see it as "trading a superstar" and some of us viewed it as "unloading an aging superstar on a negative value contract". To me, Brooklyn wanted and needed to dump that contract.

That’s just unrealistic considering what the jazz got for Gobert and how well Durant is playing.

 

[Yuma]

That’s just unrealistic considering what the jazz got for Gobert and how well Durant is playing.

The market was set. I don't care how old Durant is now. Durant now is better than Gobert during his entire contract, even assuming KD has a drop off.

 

[Phrazbit]

I agree BECAUSE, EVERY move is a gamble. It's high odds for ANY team to win an NBA Championship. The odds are actually against ANY trade working. It's rare when it does. Lebron going to LA worked because they got a ring. KD to SF worked because they got multiple rings. There are hundreds of trades that never work. The only thing you can do is look at your team at the time of the trade and analyze will this trade give us a better chance or not. Clearly the Suns thought the KD trade did that.

The Lakers gave up nothing to get LeBron, the Warriors gave up nothing to get Durant.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I disagree. He's putting up some monster numbers but he's not impacting the game the way he used to.

I think this is a bad take. His efficiency numbers are good. It’s either an chemistry thing with book or a coaching thing or weak supporting cast. Remember that terry porter made a team that the next year went to the wcf look dreadful. Was Steve nash not imoacting the game the way he used to under Porter? I think we need to look a lot more at Vogel than KD.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hello? 35 years old. Oft-injured. Find me a similar return for a 35 year old with horrible injury history. You can't. Okay, that's unfair because let's face it, 35 year olds are rarely still superstars and KD is. But the point holds though when you and others talk about his value as if he we a mid-career superstar. You trade for a mid-career superstar and you expect to have his value for many years to come (either on the court or in trade a few years down the road).

If we had given you his numbers and percentage of games played to date last year before the trade almost no one would have cared about his age.

 

[Yuma]

The Lakers gave up nothing to get LeBron, the Warriors gave up nothing to get Durant.

Good for them. That wasn't our reality. NJ wanted something in return for KD. I honestly don't remember if trades were involved or free agency. If it was free agency, it makes my point even more. Trades are risky because the vast majority of them do not make a championship.

 

[Phrazbit]

Good for them. That wasn't our reality. NJ wanted something in return for KD.

Okay, and we gave them a trade package that was basically ruinous.

If a trade has a high chance to be utterly ruinous... you don't make the trade.