Why I don't want Durant

[Phrazbit]

If we had given you his numbers and percentage of games played to date last year before the trade almost no one would have cared about his age.

Age and health should be a primary concern for any trade when giving up a package like that.

He is going to be retired, for several years, before this thing is paid off.

 

[Yuma]

Okay, and we gave them a trade package that was basically ruinous.

If a trade has a high chance to be utterly ruinous... you don't make the trade.

Agreed. Thus the, they thought it was worth it after their analysis.

 

[Yuma]

It's easy to say you would have low balled somebody for something, or not made a move that later turned out not as you imagined.

If I had saved all my money and invested as successfully as Warren Buffet, I'd be a billionaire now.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's way better on defense and likely has far better ball movement.

This team has zero chemistry. On offense, off the ball dudes just stand around, on defense hardly anyone can keep their man in front of them, lately it seems like they don't even try.

You don’t think that’s due to coaching? We just got a bunch of lazy guys now? Cmon.

 

[Mainstreet]

I’m hindsight Ishbia should’ve drawn the line at including Cam J.. Bridges was always the centerpiece and every superstar trade involves a boatload of picks but losing a high quality wing hurts considering he’d fit perfectly with Book/KD.

It's something I've been saying since the trade.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Who says we make the same Aaron trade if the KD deal doesn't happen? Basically every move post KD would be different. We could have made a play for Lillard if we needed a PG rather than facilitating his move to Milwaukee. We would have had better picks, a player Portland wanted in Ayton, and plenty of filler. I know Lillard didn't have us listed as a destination but he didn't have Milwaukee either. We had no assets whatsoever to deal for Lillard so him saying he wants to be in
Phoenix wouldn't make sense.

The whole construction of this team would be vastly different without the KD trade.

We ain’t getting lilliard with aytin as centerpiece. And if there was materially better aytin deal out there why didn’t we take it?

 

[Yuma]

I guess I have a problem with this whole thing because I went to business school and there's this thing called Market Value that people misunderstand. In a transaction, whatever something sells for, that is its market value. Doesn't matter if something similar was cheaper or cost more. That thing now has a market value of X. A buyer and seller agreed on the price for that thing.

At the end of the day, the market Value for KD is what we traded for him. That was what it took too get KD from the seller.

You can imagine whatever you want before or after that point of sale, but that was the market value to get KD. You can't change that.

 

[Yuma]

It's something I've been saying since the trade.

Saying that was true, and everything played out the same. People here are waiting for the next KD injury. We would be doing the same with Cam J. Also, would Cam J added to what we have now actually move the meter to the way this team is playing now? I don't think so.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's easy to say you would have low balled somebody for something, or not made a move that later turned out not as you imagined.

If I had saved all my money and invested as successfully as Warren Buffet, I'd be a billionaire now.

I agree with you on the lowballing. There’s zero evidence playing hardball would have worked. In fact there’s evidence to the contrary that it hadn’t.

That said I do think there were some here who wouldn’t have pulled the trigger. I give them credit for that. Of course I think that team becomes mired in 48 and fade until they dealt a similar package for someone else.

 

[Yuma]

I agree with you on the lowballing. There’s zero evidence playing hardball would have worked. In fact there’s evidence to the contrary that it hadn’t.

That said I do think there were some here who wouldn’t have pulled the trigger. I give them credit for that. Of course I think that team becomes mired in 48 and fade until they dealt a similar package for someone else.

Yes. The prevailing feeling is we need to do something different. We got blasted by the Mavs. We got humiliated by Denver. Those are memories I can see people here "forgetting" because they were unpleasant. A change had to be made. The highest value guy available at the time came available to us. We made that move.

 

[Phrazbit]

You don’t think that’s due to coaching? We just got a bunch of lazy guys now? Cmon.

I think defeatism is creeping in, that is on the coaching and the lack of leadership. I think the lack of offensive movement is a byproduct of having 2 ISO guys.

Durant, this is part of who he is, he's never been the team leader type. I wish Booker would be more vocal on both ends, telling people were to move and calling out plays... he will get in guys ears after the fact but he isn't doing much traffic directing out there.

 

[Phrazbit]

Agreed. Thus the, they thought it was worth it after their analysis.

Ishbia hadn't even owned the team for 48 hours... I don't think there was much analysis. It was pretty knee jerk.

It's easy to say you would have low balled somebody for something, or not made a move that later turned out not as you imagined.

If I had saved all my money and invested as successfully as Warren Buffet, I'd be a billionaire now.

There were quite a few posters who imagined this playing out exactly like this.

 

[Hoop Head]

I agree BECAUSE, EVERY move is a gamble. It's high odds for ANY team to win an NBA Championship. The odds are actually against ANY trade working. It's rare when it does. Lebron going to LA worked because they got a ring. KD to SF worked because they got multiple rings. There are hundreds of trades that never work. The only thing you can do is look at your team at the time of the trade and analyze will this trade give us a better chance or not. Clearly the Suns thought the KD trade did that.

LeBron went to LA as a free agent. KD went to Golden State as a free agent. Those aren't the same sort of deals. Had we been able to sign KD? Then there's no debate, sign him. That's adding him to what you have, we didn't do that.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's easy to say you would have low balled somebody for something, or not made a move that later turned out not as you imagined.

If I had saved all my money and invested as successfully as Warren Buffet, I'd be a billionaire now.

But a lot of us have said it wasn't worth the risk before it happened. That's what this thread was discussing. This isn't all hindsight.

 

[Yuma]

LeBron went to LA as a free agent. KD went to Golden State as a free agent. Those aren't the same sort of deals. Had we been able to sign KD? Then there's no debate, sign him. That's adding him to what you have, we didn't do that.

EXACTLY. Now it's a fools argument to say we shouldn't have done this. Or we didn't do that. We did what we did. As a fan you have to roll on past that point and figure what should we do next. Once something is done. it's done.

 

[Yuma]

But a lot of us have said it wasn't worth the risk before it happened. That's what this thread was discussing. This isn't all hindsight.

I know. It IS hindsight because even if I know my son shouldn't do something and I tell him beforehand, and he still does it, it doesn't help to dwell on, well you shouldn't have done that. It's move onto, now what do we do.

 

[Hoop Head]

I guess I have a problem with this whole thing because I went to business school and there's this thing called Market Value that people misunderstand. In a transaction, whatever something sells for, that is its market value. Doesn't matter if something similar was cheaper or cost more. That thing now has a market value of X. A buyer and seller agreed on the price for that thing.

At the end of the day, the market Value for KD is what we traded for him. That was what it took too get KD from the seller.

You can imagine whatever you want before or after that point of sale, but that was the market value to get KD. You can't change that.

Could we trade KD now for what we got? Call up Brooklyn and say, please give back Mikal, Cam, and the picks and we'll give you back KD. Call the other pieces a wash. Deal? Brooklyn would laugh at us and so would any other team where we ask for 1 borderline All-Star in his mid 20's on a great contract and another mid to late 20's starter on a fair contract plus 4 1st round picks. No one would give that. So what happened to KD's market value? I thought it was set? He's playing great, so why couldn't we do that?

Sports aren't the same as regular business.

 

[Yuma]

Could we trade KD now for what we got? Call up Brooklyn and say, please give back Mikal, Cam, and the picks and we'll give you back KD. Call the other pieces a wash. Deal? Brooklyn would laugh at us and so would any other team where we ask for 1 borderline All-Star in his mid 20's on a great contract and another mid to late 20's starter on a fair contract plus 4 1st round picks. No one would give that. So what happened to KD's market value? I thought it was set? He's playing great, so why couldn't we do that?

Sports aren't the same as regular business.

Until we trade him, his market value is still what we paid. People conflate estimates and appraisals with market value. When we trade him, then his new market value will be established. Let me answer it this way, who would have paid what they Minny did to get Gobert? You never know WHAT market value is until it happens!

Players say it all the time, it's not a game, it's a business.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I know. It IS hindsight because even if I know my son shouldn't do something and I tell him beforehand, and he still does it, it doesn't help to dwell on, well you shouldn't have done that. It's move onto, now what do we do.

That ain’t how message boards work. Especially when a previous move looks highly questionable. And that’s coming from someone who approved of the trade wholeheartedly.

 

[Yuma]

That ain’t how message boards work. Especially when a previous move looks highly questionable. And that’s coming from someone who approved of the trade wholeheartedly.

I guess the message boards work where people are stuck in the past? There's a lot of other threads here where discussions are about what should be done.

 

[Hoop Head]

Until we trade him, his market value is still what we paid. People conflate estimates and appraisals with market value. When we trade him, then his new market value will be established. Let me answer it this way, who would have paid what they Minny did to get Gobert? You never know WHAT market value is until it happens!

Players say it all the time, it's not a game, it's a business.

So you're ignoring how market value can be inflated and unrealistic at times? We overpaid for KD. Market value, whatever. We were never going to recoup what we spent and Brooklyn set the price ridiculously high where only a sucker would meet and we were the sucker. We tried negotiating but apparently they didn't budge. Regardless of "market value" we paid too much.

As an aside, Gobert is the centerpiece of a top 5 defense and top 5 team in the league right now. It took a little time but Minnesota has turned things around and everyone there, including KAT, are playing really good defense thanks to Gobert. Theres a really good SI article about, ill link. I hope we can turn thing around but given KD's age and injury history, that seems very unlikely.

Rudy Gobert's 64-hour darkness retreat sparked his vision for Wolves defense - Sports Illustrated Minnesota Timberwolves News, Analysis and More

A darkness before the dawn sort of thing.

www.si.com

 

[Phrazbit]

Alright, I gotta clear my head before a Christmas party tonight, really need to get outta this debate for a bit.

Happy holidays ya'll.

 

[Mainstreet]

Alright, I gotta clear my head before a Christmas party tonight, really need to get outta this debate for a bit.

Happy holidays ya'll.

Enjoy the Christmas party. This stuff is not going to be fixed overnight.

Happy Holidays as well.

 

[Yuma]

So you're ignoring how market value can be inflated and unrealistic at times? We overpaid for KD. Market value, whatever. We were never going to recoup what we spent and Brooklyn set the price ridiculously high where only a sucker would meet and we were the sucker. We tried negotiating but apparently they didn't budge. Regardless of "market value" we paid too much.

As an aside, Gobert is the centerpiece of a top 5 defense and top 5 team in the league right now. It took a little time but Minnesota has turned things around and everyone there, including KAT, are playing really good defense thanks to Gobert. Theres a really good SI article about, ill link. I hope we can turn thing around but given KD's age and injury history, that seems very unlikely.

Rudy Gobert's 64-hour darkness retreat sparked his vision for Wolves defense - Sports Illustrated Minnesota Timberwolves News, Analysis and More

A darkness before the dawn sort of thing.

www.si.com

You are mixing appraisals and estimates with market value. Again the market value for something is established at the time of the trade/sale. If someone wants to buy my soda for $100 for whatever their reasoning is, and I can just go buy another one for $2, and I sell it for that $100, the market value of that soda is $100.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think defeatism is creeping in, that is on the coaching and the lack of leadership. I think the lack of offensive movement is a byproduct of having 2 ISO guys.

Durant, this is part of who he is, he's never been the team leader type. I wish Booker would be more vocal on both ends, telling people were to move and calling out plays... he will get in guys ears after the fact but he isn't doing much traffic directing out there.

I think they’re iso guys by coaches design. Remember that Durant deliberately wanted to play for GS due to their movement offense. That’s not an iso offense generally. And book was at his best when playing SG not point.

No quibbling with the leadership thing. But it’s not like that’s a surprise. As for book not shouting out where people should be, maybe that’s because they are where they’re supposed to be in this standstill and watch offense.