Why I Doubt The Cards Draft a RB at #31

cardsfanmd

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Knowing that 9/10 mock drafts have us taking Moreno, Wells, Brown or McCoy with our first round selection irratates me. I know we have a had a sour rushing attack for a long time. I also know that everybody (coaches/players/fans) wants a strong running game. However, us using the 31st overall this year is not going to do that IMO--or significantly upgrade the position enough to validate the pick--and I believe the team is thinking the same way as me.

Let me first say that if Wells were available I think he would definitely be the choice and the team could take Moreno without surprising me as well. Both of them will undoubtably be gone though IMO they aren't relevent unless we are talking trade-up circumstances (which I wouldn't put past Whiz). I saw 5 marquee guys last year in Stewart, McFadden, Jones, Jonson and Mendenhall. This year there are only two IMO.

Two years ago Whiz took over the team and his first big player personel move was to let Leonard Davis walk. It hurt, but I think the move was based on principles and setting a precedent that the team would not overpay underacheivers (yet they filled his spot wih Levi who was the highest paid and worst producing starting OT in the game over the past two years, but whatever). Anyway, we passed on Adrian Peterson who was regarded as the best RB to come out of college in a decade for the second to third best tackle in the draft at the fifth overall spot. Does that tell you anything about how this staff wants to build a team? Did the team draft a RB in the next round, or the one after that? Did they take any RBs anywhere in that draft?

Now lets look at last year's draft. Everyone and their mother said we were gonna draft Stewart, Felix Jones or Mendenhall. Stewart was snagged just before we picked and we opted to go defense because we thought there was a better option at the time (DRC) than Jones, Mendenhall, Chris Johnson or Matt Forte. We passed on Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jacob Hester and Jamaal Charles twice. We said no thanks to Steve Slaton three times and Tashard Choice, Jerome Felton and Ryan Torrain four times before liking the value of Tim Hightower in the fifth round.

Finally, we did seem to learn how to run the ball during the postseason where we averaged 92 yards a game. We also had 14 rushing TDs in the regular season which is almost double that of the year before.

I guess my point is that if we didn't think we needed to reach for a RB last year I really dont see us doing it this year. I firmly expect to see us go D in rd 1 and take either McCoy, Greene, Jennings or Coffee in the second or third round (barring movement from our current draft spots/aquisation of more picks). In fact, I expect us to go D in the first and OT in the second.
 

PoolBoy

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Good point. I want Moreno, but would be happy with Coffee in the second or third. Could fit the JJ role.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Good stuff.

The problem (and not really a problem) is that we are going to always have a poor rushing team when you have Boldin and Fitzgerald and with good reason. It is the way that it should be. If your best weapons on offense are the WR's, then you should throw the ball more.

I wish we could increase our YPC more, but I don't necessarily place that blame on the RB. We need an upgrade at the RB position, but also on the interior of our line, going out to the right.

I just think that everyone looks at or RB situation because we average so few yards per game on the ground and I say 'Who cares?' That's the way I want it to be.
 
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cardsfanmd

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Good stuff.

The problem (and not really a problem) is that we are going to always have a poor rushing team when you have Boldin and Fitzgerald and with good reason. It is the way that it should be. If your best weapons on offense are the WR's, then you should throw the ball more.

I wish we could increase our YPC more, but I don't necessarily place that blame on the RB. We need an upgrade at the RB position, but also on the interior of our line, going out to the right.

I just think that everyone looks at or RB situation because we average so few yards per game on the ground and I say 'Who cares?' That's the way I want it to be.
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Proteus

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Finally, we did seem to learn how to run the ball during the postseason where we averaged 92 yards a game. We also had 14 rushing TDs in the regular season which is almost double that of the year before.
But we only averaged 3.3 yards per carry in the post season, which is actually worse than our regular season average. :(

Edge averaged 3.8 yard per carry in the post season and Hightower averaged 3.7 yards. Both of those yards per carry figures would be in the bottom 5 in terms of yards per carry for Nfl teams based on regular season stats. :(

So I'd say we still don't know much about running the ball.
 
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lauraw

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Hopefully, kurt warner has been in whizz's ear enough so he realizes the value of a topflight back to our offense, what it would mean..[Marshall Faulk] and whizz learns and evolves in his thinking about taking a top runningback if available; I guess i'm down to considering donald brown a top RB because Wells and Moreno will be gone.
 

CardinalChris

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We know what we get from our offense. A RB will be taken, but not to be relied on for the thier first year. But I think we only go as far as our defense takes us. And the biggest thing our defense is missing is pressure. I still think an edge rusher is a priority and there are plenty of them right around our spot.
 

Arizona's Finest

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Good Stuff MD - and your probably right on that.

Can the draft just come already?
 

bg7brd

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But we only averaged 3.3 yards per carry in the post season, which is actually worse than our regular season average. :(

Edge averaged 3.8 yard per carry in the post season and Hightower averaged 3.7 yards. Both of those yards per carry figures would be in the bottom 5 in terms of yards per carry for Nfl teams based on regular season stats. :(

So I'd say we still don't know much about running the ball.

It's a lot harder to run the ball in the playoffs. You're playing against the top teams who most likely have a good run defense.
 

TJ

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Good Stuff MD - and your probably right on that.

Can the draft just come already?

I agree.....the one weekend where I can lay on the couch in my underwear watching TV and stuffing my face with food and my wife not getting on my case about it. Love it!!
 

WildBB

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There are numerous problems with not having a reliable rushing attack. The coaching staff knows it and we witnessed it hurtfully when we couldn't control the ball in our final drive in the SB because we didn't/couldn't trust our ball control option, basically and went for the kill right away. We know the rest of the story.

Anyway, with what we have in HT, and with Wells and Moreno off the board in all likelihood we have to look at who will complement HT the best. Donald Brown fits that bill. A ton of carries last season, when all his opponents knew he would be coming at them. And he produced every week.

He's a breakaway threat at least once a game and catches very well. He's a better blocker than McCoy. All considered he might be the better fit for this system and he will only get better as he gets acclimated to the NFL.

I could easily see them going D with the first selection, but we could do much worse than Donald Brown coming to the valley.
 

Totally_Red

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Good stuff.

The problem (and not really a problem) is that we are going to always have a poor rushing team when you have Boldin and Fitzgerald and with good reason. It is the way that it should be. If your best weapons on offense are the WR's, then you should throw the ball more.

I wish we could increase our YPC more, but I don't necessarily place that blame on the RB. We need an upgrade at the RB position, but also on the interior of our line, going out to the right.

I just think that everyone looks at or RB situation because we average so few yards per game on the ground and I say 'Who cares?' That's the way I want it to be.

I agree and I'm still on the Alex Mack bandwagon. Not only do we acquire a solid leader at center who can be a mainstay for the next 10 years, but we aid both the passing and running game. A running back may or may not upgrade the running game, but would not have the impact on the passing attack as a solid center would. Get a running back later on unless Moreno somehow drops all the way to #31. Alex Mack is my first choice, followed by an outside stud pass rusher.
 

Hypothesis

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Why I doubt the Cards draft a RB at #31...A few reasons.

1. Premium pass rushers are much more rare than 1000 yard backs. The Cardinals have the opportunity to add at least one but preferably 2 potentially dominate pass rushing LB's in this draft in the first two, possibly 3 rounds. There is a substantial drop off in pass rushers in later rounds, moreso than with running backs.

2. Year after year, good and solid rb's are found in later rounds. This draft will be no different. Cedric Peerman, Kory Sheets, Tyrell Sutton, Devin Moore, Gartrell Johnson among others will be available anywhere from the 4th round on down through UDFA.

3. Whiz realizes he doesn't need a full time superstar starter at rb. He needs somebody to split time with Hightower and compliment HT's style. A later round back will do.
 

Shogun

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3. Whiz realizes he doesn't need a full time superstar starter at rb. He needs somebody to split time with Hightower and compliment HT's style. A later round back will do.
Two complimentary scrubs does not make a decent running attack.
 

PoolBoy

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Two complimentary scrubs does not make a decent running attack.

Scrub?

Who scored the touchdown to get teh Cards to the Superbowl?
Who had the first down against the Eagles on 4th and 1 to keep the season alive?
Who had the big first down against the cowboys?
Who scored a td in all of the NFC playoff games?
Who set a Cardinals rookie record for rushing tds?


just checking.
 

Hypothesis

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Does Hightower have some things to learn? Absolutely. Hit the hole, don't dance. Don't run too upright. Pick your knees up higher when you run ala Roger Craig. Sink your hips when you make a cut etc......, but to call him a scrub? Nah. He actually performed very well, for a 5th round rookie and behind our pass block first o-line, when called upon.
 

Shogun

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Scrub?

Who scored the touchdown to get teh Cards to the Superbowl?
Who had the first down against the Eagles on 4th and 1 to keep the season alive?
Who had the big first down against the cowboys?
Who scored a td in all of the NFC playoff games?
Who set a Cardinals rookie record for rushing tds?


just checking.
Who did absolutely nothing as a starter after Week 9?
What starting RB worth their salt averages under 3 yards a carry?

Just checking.

Hightower is fine as a situational/COP back, but I have no faith in him getting a bulk number of carries or making The Breaston Leap.
 
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cardsfanmd

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Who did absolutely nothing as a starter after Week 9?
What starting RB worth their salt averages under 3 yards a carry?

Just checking.

Hightower is fine as a situational/COP back, but I have no faith in him getting a bulk number of carries or making The Breaston Leap.

No scrubs score 13 times in a season.

You may be right about him as a feature runner, but he did run for more TDs that J Stewart, Mendenhall, McFadden, Johnson, Jones or any other rookie RB last year. Those TDs couldn't all have been accidental.
 

Shogun

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No scrubs score 13 times in a season.

You may be right about him as a feature runner, but he did run for more TDs that J Stewart, Mendenhall, McFadden, Johnson, Jones or any other rookie RB last year. Those TDs couldn't all have been accidental.
If given enough opportunities, it wouldn't be far fetched. But regardless, that should be Breadtruck's niche like it was earlier in the season - short yardage, GL guy.

My point is that despite his flashes of potential he is a non-factor as the main RB (Marion Barber 2.0 he is not) and has not shown enough as a runner to where we can seriously consider him as The Guy. 2.8 YPC is not good for anyone, regardless of situation, offensive line, etc. Instead of looking for his compliment they need to find a guy who can be the main guy and push him back to where he's better served.

But alas, as a simple fan I don't know how deep the Breadtruck bromance goes with Whisenhunt.
 
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cardsfanmd

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If given enough opportunities, it wouldn't be far fetched. But regardless, that should be Breadtruck's niche like it was earlier in the season - short yardage, GL guy.

My point is that despite his flashes of potential he is a non-factor as the main RB (Marion Barber 2.0 he is not) and has not shown enough as a runner to where we can seriously consider him as The Guy. 2.8 YPC is not good for anyone, regardless of situation, offensive line, etc. Instead of looking for his compliment they need to find a guy who can be the main guy and push him back to where he's better served.

But alas, as a simple fan I don't know how deep the Breadtruck bromance goes with Whisenhunt.
Agreed.
 

Mitch

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Hightower showed he could play as a rookie. I think he's the first Cardinal rookie RB since O.J. Anderson who could play as a rookie...remember how shy and tentative Garrison Hearst and Thomas Jones were as rookies?

Hightower was lowering his shoulder and punishing the likes of Brian Dawkins...now that's something to behold.

The thing is: the guy is only going to improve.

I worry that Donald Brown and LeSean McCoy will need a few years as Hearst and Jones did to be physically and mentally ready to run hard and take the pounding. Look at how many times Edge got pounded the last few years. Edge was ideal in that sense because he's so tough and durable. These rookies have to be ready to overcome the pounding.

This is why...the guy who stands out more as NFL ready is Shonn Greene, because he's tough and more physically equipped to take the pounding.

As for this draft, I agree that an edge pass rusher at #31 is the most likely selection...because we have three grizzled veterans there now (Okeafor, Haggans and Berry) and the younger LaBoy who was injury prone and non-effective after a fast start.

We saw in the Super Bowl that the Steelers' mediocre tackles were stopping the Cardinals' edge rushers practically in their tracks...partly because we had to use Okeafor and Berry so much that their legs were shot...and LaBoy was playing hurt...and Haggans was on the IR.

The other thing to consider is: last year the Cardinals passed on RBs early because they clearly had a wild card up their sleeve in Hightower..who wasn't even invited to the Combine...and honestly had us all scrambling to Google and our draft guides just to know who the heck he was. Do the Cardinals have another wild card up their sleeve in this draft? I will bet you they do. Remember: Fast Willie Parker was a CFA in 2004...wasn't even drafted.
 

Mitch

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If given enough opportunities, it wouldn't be far fetched. But regardless, that should be Breadtruck's niche like it was earlier in the season - short yardage, GL guy.

My point is that despite his flashes of potential he is a non-factor as the main RB (Marion Barber 2.0 he is not) and has not shown enough as a runner to where we can seriously consider him as The Guy. 2.8 YPC is not good for anyone, regardless of situation, offensive line, etc. Instead of looking for his compliment they need to find a guy who can be the main guy and push him back to where he's better served.

But alas, as a simple fan I don't know how deep the Breadtruck bromance goes with Whisenhunt.

Honestly, Shogun, to make this judgement of Hightower after one year, his rookie year no less, is moot, speculative and way too premature. What if Hightower comes back for his sophomore year the way Breaston did? And this time he doesn't have to worry about taking reps and touches away from a future Hall of Famer. And Breaston couldn't even feed off any rookie success as a WR...but 13TDs and clutch 4th down conversions that led to an NFC Championship is quite a bit for a young RB to build on already.
 

joeshmo

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Hightower was lowering his shoulder and punishing the likes of Brian Dawkins...now that's something to behold.

Dawkins 3 years ago, yes. Dawkins today, not so much. Everyone ran over Dawkins in 08, he just doesnt have it anymore and the only thing he brings to the table now a days is leadership, locker room ability, and a few forearm shivers to a WR once in a while.
 

Arizona's Finest

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Honestly, Shogun, to make this judgement of Hightower after one year, his rookie year no less, is moot, speculative and way too premature. What if Hightower comes back for his sophomore year the way Breaston did? And this time he doesn't have to worry about taking reps and touches away from a future Hall of Famer. And Breaston couldn't even feed off any rookie success as a WR...but 13TDs and clutch 4th down conversions that led to an NFC Championship is quite a bit for a young RB to build on already.

My thoughts exactly.

I respect Shoguns ability to evaluate talent and college talent as much as anybodys on this board but it kills me when us arm chair QB's/GMs/Scouts think we have it all figured out on a kid. Especially after a rookie year like that.

I can't belive how many people have HT pigeon holed into a GL role. I am not saying he is definitely a 30 carry type guy but he has shown enough to be considered a potential lead ball carrier on a good running team - especially if he continues to develop. Keep in mind our OL blocking isn't all that great. It would be a facinating social experment to see what kind of phenom or numbers a guy like AP would have here. If you think they would be identical or even similar to what he has done behind that OL in Minny I think you are kidding yourself.

Here is a GREAT read following up on MD's original point. I need to hear more about this Brown kid....

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest/0-8-611/GM-profiling--The-right-running-back-for-Cardinals.html
 

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