Why is Big still a Guard

[conraddobler]

This puzzles me a lot if you read the story on him in the repulsive it mentions that the coaches think he was a good tackle but could be a devastating guard.

Sure maybe but with Clement not playing the best don't we need a tackle more? I think he would be a perfect right tackle since his size should blow holes open on that side and it isn't the primary pass rush spot to worry about.

Shelton I think is a good Left Tackle but Clement hasn't been up to par and guards are just too much easier to find.

I think he has been shuffled around a lot and this illustrates my point that coaching isn't the best. The guy I feel is flat out playing out of position.

He is hurt this year so the point is probably moot now but I think next year we trade Clement extend Shelton and move Big into his home at right tackle and get a killer FA guard or draft one in the 3rd or 4th round.

 

[Northern Card]

BIG is a guard simply because, and it was illustrated last year, he doesn't have the footwork for either tackle position. When it comes to dealing with speed rushers, Big makes Clement look like an All Pro...

 

[conraddobler]

Originally posted by Northern Card
BIG is a guard simply because, and it was illustrated last year, he doesn't have the footwork for either tackle position. When it comes to dealing with speed rushers, Big makes Clement look like an All Pro...

I don't deny he has a problem with speed rushers but that is a question of training and technique IMHO more than foot speed.

He usually gets beat once or twice in a game by a speed rusher early and settles down later because he learns what the guy is trying to do to him. That is more training and experience than bad foot speed to me at least.

 

[Russ Smith]

What's telling to me is this. Big played with Mike Williams at Texas, both huge, Big one year ahead. Big played LT, Mike Williams RT. BIg was the 2nd pick, Williams went very high. I didn't see a single report that said Williams was rated as highly as Big, some even said he was getting unfair hype because of Big's rookie year with us and was going higher than he deserved to as a result.

Williams is looking like a pro bowler, and Big looks lost.

IT's got to be our coaching doesn't it?

 

[CardLogic]

Todays EV Tribune had an article quoting Big saying something to the effect that switching from tackle (in college) to guard (rookie year) to tackle (last year, Clement hurt) to guard (this season +injured) has hindered his understand and comfort level at either position.

Now Big nearly made All-Pro his rookie year at guard, last year he did OK at tackle. Put the guy at one position and let him play! I am thinking more and more that the coaching staff is screwing up the offensive line. Thinking that you can shuffle guys around from guard to tackle, from center to guard, etc. is wrong. Granted perhaps an individual can play either position; but not moving back and forth.

This OL has developed zero consistency! How much of the problem should be attributed to all the shuffling that the coaches have done. Quit screwing with the "Big" guys head.

This shuffling isn't done with other positions, (You don't see FB's playing RB [Allstot <sp> is a RB]; TE's playing WR; LB's playing SS). Why do some think it is easy to do with the OL.

I like Dave McGinnis, I just think he is in over his head. (pun intended)

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by CardLogic
This OL has developed zero consistency! How much of the problem should be attributed to all the shuffling that the coaches have done. Quit screwing with the "Big" guys head.

This shuffling isn't done with other positions, (You don't see FB's playing RB [Allstot <sp> is a RB]; TE's playing WR; LB's playing SS). Why do some think it is easy to do with the OL.

I like Dave McGinnis, I just think he is in over his head. (pun intended)

all well and good but I've seen situations on other teams where one guy gets hurt and they make 3 shifts in position to replace him and look just fine.

I think the OL is just out of shape and rusty because they mostly missed the camp and preseason rehabbing. Clement missed all last year.

I do agree Big needs to stick to a position, I'd just prefer it was RT but I don't see us paying AC that contract to sit.

 

[conraddobler]

Trade AC I am sure someone will give up something for the guy he'd be the first one I'd trade on the team because he might have some decent value.

Most teams would just attribute his poor play to him being on a bad team.

Heck I haven't done the research but some team probably has two really good guards and no decent RT just trade for the good guard or at least that line of thinking maybe a good CB or DE but that would be probably too much to ask. However a RT should be worth a least a high level guard or a 2nd or 3rd pick. Plenty for AC and we get rid of his salary.

I wouldn't mess with this right now but that is part of why I would like a new coaching staff. I want people put back where they belong, benched and generally re-evaluated by hopefully fresh objective eyes.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by conraddobler
Trade AC I am sure someone will give up something for the guy he'd be the first one I'd trade on the team because he might have some decent value.

Trade him to San Diego in the offseason for Toniu Fonoti assuming he recovers from his triceps and foot injuries. From what I read Fonoti was furious when they put him on IR he said he was assuming he could play the 2nd half of the season once the triceps had healed. The foot injury is just described as "pain" in both feet and the Chargers felt it might be weight related. Apparently that's why Fonoti was mad he thinks Marty put him on IR to "punish" him for his weight, which admittedly went up when he couldn't work out with the injuries.

At worse Fonoti never recovers and we have another injured OL, at best we get a 22 year old 340 pound RG who can drive block as well as an RG in the NFL.

 

[conraddobler]

That is a good example of fixing two problems at once, Big settles into RT, we get rid of someone whom maybe can play but isn't playing up to his salary at the very least and maybe we get a good guard to boot.

There are probably a few more of these but heck it is worth the risk by then we will have Roundtree back and can still draft a later round guard and when all is said and done things look better all around.

I can't just see leaving the situation pat because the line isn't performing like it should. The most important thing is to get someone new to evalute film on the guys and work them out in person and see why we still have line problems with all the money in there.

It is time to either up the production or realize it is overpaid and begin fixing that.

 

[BW52]

Big Davis was rated as the #1 OG in the Sporting News/WarRoom preseason player rankings.These guys think Big will be a monster at RG and he doesn`t have the footwork to be a RT.Why not put him at RG and see if he plays to his Pro-Bowl potential or above.Why not a Pro-Bowl RG instead of a slightly better than average RT?Of course he has to get healthy before we see anything.

 

[kerouac9]

John Clayton in the preseason unabashedly said that Leonard Davis has Hall of Fame-type skills at RG. Leave him there, but let him get involved with the running game. My guess is that he'd like to hit someone.

 

[CardinalChris]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
What's telling to me is this. Big played with Mike Williams at Texas, both huge, Big one year ahead. Big played LT, Mike Williams RT. BIg was the 2nd pick, Williams went very high. I didn't see a single report that said Williams was rated as highly as Big, some even said he was getting unfair hype because of Big's rookie year with us and was going higher than he deserved to as a result.

Williams is looking like a pro bowler, and Big looks lost.

IT's got to be our coaching doesn't it?

Doesn't it always seem that way?

 

[conraddobler]

Originally posted by kerouac9
John Clayton in the preseason unabashedly said that Leonard Davis has Hall of Fame-type skills at RG. Leave him there, but let him get involved with the running game. My guess is that he'd like to hit someone.

Well most great tackles would be pro bowl guards I just don't see the logic in that.

This is the kind of thinking that causes us to suck IMHO. Will Shields or Willie Roaf for the Chiefs would be pro bowl guards too but what would be the point of that.

The Chiefs run the ball down peoples throat because they have two pro bowl tackles that eat DE ends for lunch.

We could have that too but we are too scared of his (feet) when I believe it is all coaching.

Guards are not nearly as hard to find. The logic here is all screwed up the team is just saving $ because they can't afford to sit AC with his salary but this ripples across the whole line. Trade AC in this offseason for a guard or a pick or another quality player of need and then get a new one they aren't that hard to find tackles are and take years to develop.

 

[kerouac9]

Len Pasquerelli reports that only now are the Steelers considering moving 2-time Pro Bowl guard Alan Faneca to tackle in practices. You leave your best players in at their best positions, and move around the other guys.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
What's telling to me is this. Big played with Mike Williams at Texas, both huge, Big one year ahead. Big played LT, Mike Williams RT. BIg was the 2nd pick, Williams went very high. I didn't see a single report that said Williams was rated as highly as Big, some even said he was getting unfair hype because of Big's rookie year with us and was going higher than he deserved to as a result.

Williams is looking like a pro bowler, and Big looks lost.

IT's got to be our coaching doesn't it?

Very good observation. If Davis was on any other team I feel he would be playing a Tackle position.

Plus Has this ever happened with such a highly ranked T from college??? A #2 overall pick that plays guard. I've never hear of a guard going #2 overall. I really dislike the Cards Drafts.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Larry Allen

A tackle that was drafted and made into a guard.

Nuff said.

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by DevonCardsFan
Very good observation. If Davis was on any other team I feel he would be playing a Tackle position.

Plus Has this ever happened with such a highly ranked T from college??? A #2 overall pick that plays guard. I've never hear of a guard going #2 overall. I really dislike the Cards Drafts.

This may be the best point made yet. OG's almost never get drafted in the top ten. BIG was playing fairly well at OT last year and was getting better every week until his injury. I could live with a RT as the number 2 pick in the entire draft but for true value sake he should be an Pro Bowl LT. Not a RG.

Larry Allen has played OT and OG and seems better suited at the G position. He is also quicker and faster than BIG and can execute pulling assignments better. Allen was also drafted in the 4th ? rd.

 

[Harry]

Most Pro guards were tackles in college. There are several reasons for moving him to tackle. The Cards already have some guys would can play well at guard. Clement is not getting the job done at right tackle. Unlike Kendall (who should be playing guard), Big is not quick enough to pull effectively from the guard slot, but is quick enough to sweep from tackle. As to his play at tackle last season, a player rarely learns to play tackle in one year.

When comparing him and Williams remember Texas had Simms, so RT was his back.

If they want to get started running, they should do what the Cards did a few years back to get it going. Reduce the blocking to drive blocking and let Big run over some people. If his leg is healthy, it will get him back in rhythm. It may no break any long runs, but the Cards will gain yardage.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Larry Allen

A tackle that was drafted and made into a guard.

Nuff said.

Larry Allen wasn't the number two pick in the draft.

Poor comparison.

 

[JeffGollin]

Clement and Shelton.

Cards probably feel more secure with those guys at T than if one of them was gone and Leonard had to play tackle - which would mean we'd be forced to use Spikes/Garcia and Dish at the two guard spots.

I'm not saying they're absolutely right (given what we've seen so far from Anthony and LJ). But on paper, it seems like the soundest way to go.

If and when Roundtree is back and healthy and it's later in the season, we might want to see what the O-line's like with Leonard at tackle and perhaps Garcia and Roundtree at guard.