Why It’s a Risk to Hire a Coach With a Losing Record

[schutd]

Absolutely. Point taken. Are you suggesting those likely aren’t real nfl sources?

Not at all. But Im going to place FAR less weight on the opinions of an unnamed scout, from a fan based website, that has crap grammar than I am other, more legit NFL sources.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Like this:

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I typed that when you said you were being shouted down by posters. I took that to mean you felt ganged up on. When you clarified that it’s apparently just me and stout and ruining your time on the board I let that one go and now suggest you just put the two of us on ignore if you don’t like our football perspectives.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not at all. But Im going to place FAR less weight on the opinions of an unnamed scout, from a fan based website, that has crap grammar than I am other, more legit NFL sources.

I think that’s fair. What other more legit NFL sources are reporting the opposite? I haven’t seen any where it’s been reported in opposite to what Fansided reported. So in a vacuum of counterbalance we just have the the anonymous NFL sources (and whatever weight you decide to give them). Right?

 

[schutd]

Good post. I agree with all of it.

Curious your thoughts on the following hypothetical scenario:

We lose out, or beat a completely moribund Seattle team in unimpressive fashion to close out the year and lose in first round.

We retain kliff due to the valid reasons (improve each season, made playoffs, younger coaches still learning).

Next year is the same hot start and back season fade and playoff flameout.

Does that establish enough of a pattern to say he’s reached his ceiling? He’s the guy that could get our team here but can’t get us to the next step. Or is his youth still enough of a crutch to say he can still improve? How much leash do you (not asking what you think cardinals will do - I doubt they can a two-time playoff coach) give him?

Didnt ask me, but Im inclined to give him this year, and next. If the same happens again next year, cut bait. This year, Id like to see VJ get the eff outta dodge. I hate his defense, rankings be damned. Also, Billy Davis can kick rocks.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Didnt ask me, but Im inclined to give him this year, and next. If the same happens again next year, cut bait. This year, Id like to see VJ get the eff outta dodge. I hate his defense, rankings be damned. Also, Billy Davis can kick rocks.

I’m good with all of this.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Didnt ask me, but Im inclined to give him this year, and next. If the same happens again next year, cut bait. This year, Id like to see VJ get the eff outta dodge. I hate his defense, rankings be damned. Also, Billy Davis can kick rocks.

This is pretty much where I am at. Kliff brought this team where it is now.

Plus if Kliff fails in excruciating fashion, it will not only be he that like goes, Keim could be shown the door finally too. They are married to each other at this point.

 

[TheCardFan]

No one attacks you as a poster for your view. We disagree with your football take. You are literally now asking for a rule that “protects” you from people’s football opinions with which you disagree. Smdh

Really? You called me an ostrich, delusional, lame, divisive, I "don't understand simple concepts", etc. I could go on. Is that about me or about football?

There is a rule protecting Darksiders - why not protect Coolaiders as well?

Go ahead and deflect that you think its because I don't like other people's opinions. Plenty of proof against that theory on this board.

When someone disagrees with you...you try to belittle them.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Really? You called me an ostrich, delusional, lame, divisive, I "don't understand simple concepts", etc. I could go on. Is that about me or about football?

There is a rule protecting Darksiders - why not protect Coolaiders as well?

Go ahead and deflect that you think its because I don't like other people's opinions. Plenty of proof against that theory on this board.

When someone disagrees with you...you try to belittle them.

It is clear you didn't read the rules. It is a GLOBAL rule, not separate ones.

Let's go back to the topic at hand. If you have more questions about the rules, please feel free to send me a private message and we can discuss.

 

[schutd]

I think that’s fair. What other more legit NFL sources are reporting the opposite? I haven’t seen any where it’s been reported in opposite to what Fansided reported. So in a vacuum of counterbalance we just have the the anonymous NFL sources (and whatever weight you decide to give them). Right?

Absolutely. And I skew dark side right now, for sure. I have a decent amount of TheCardFan in my perspective, but probably more along the lines of Chopper. I don't need the opposite balance to give weight or credence to a particular websites validity. I just look at the article, and can make a pretty good guess as to its quality. As an example, all the USA Today team pages are garbage, and my first foray into fansided, I'm obviously less than impressed. I guess, if I look at a published "news" article, and it contains zero verifiable sourcing, and has crap editing, I tend to disregard it regardless of topic. But that doesnt mean I disagree with its premise.

 

[Chopper0080]

Good post. I agree with all of it.

Curious your thoughts on the following hypothetical scenario:

We lose out, or beat a completely moribund Seattle team in unimpressive fashion to close out the year and lose in first round.

We retain kliff due to the valid reasons (improve each season, made playoffs, younger coaches still learning).

Next year is the same hot start and back season fade and playoff flameout.

Does that establish enough of a pattern to say he’s reached his ceiling? He’s the guy that could get our team here but can’t get us to the next step. Or is his youth still enough of a crutch to say he can still improve? How much leash do you (not asking what you think cardinals will do - I doubt they can a two-time playoff coach) give him?

As long as we are getting to the playoffs and the team isn't quitting on him, I think you keep rolling and hope Kyler gets us over the hump. I know that isn't sexy, but so much of this league is luck. If you have a guy who can get you to the playoffs and you are a team that has been horrible for so long, the benefit of that stability is very underrated.

Arians was awesome, but he also had spent many years in the NFL before he got his shot. It took him 21 years in the NFL, a 2nd HC, and Tom Brady to win a Super Bowl. Andy Reid is a similar story. HC at 41/42 and took him 15+ years, another org, and young young superstar QB to win a Super Bowl. So I look at these two examples and I look at Kliff who is 42, in year 3 and having some success, and I just feel like patience might be the way to go.

 

[Chopper0080]

Ultimately, I tend to look at it like this. Belichick is a great coach and he hasn't won a title without Brady. Reid without Mahomes. Sean Payton without Drew Brees. I just think the QB matters more than the HC and so I just need to find a league average guy who can not lose a locker room and oversee a QB friendly system. I do think Kliff can be that guy so for me, our postseason success hinges more on Kyler than Kliff.

 

[Harry]

While I agree with your premises I think it’s important to clarify that kyler never said film study was optional or that he doesn’t do it. He said he doesn’t spend all day doing it. Or something to that effect. I get your point and agree, but let’s not turn the comment into something it’s not.

I think he was being sarcastic with the 24 hour remark. I certainly was left with the impression he doesn’t highly value film study. Here’s another quote from the article indicating the author agrees with me, “Murray does not watch much game film.” I agree it’s not wise to draw too many conclusions but his play, calling few audibles & no hot reads, seems to indicate he doesn’t recognize specific defensive alignments.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think he was being sarcastic with the 24 hour remark. I certainly was left with the impression he doesn’t highly value film study. Here’s another quote from the article indicating the author agrees with me, “Murray does not watch much game film.” I agree it’s not wise to draw too many conclusions but his play, calling few audibles & no hot reads, seems to indicate he doesn’t recognize specific defensive alignments.

The irony. Agreeing that isn't wise to drawing conclusions, and then doing so in the very same sentence.

 

[THESMEL]

Don’t know why fans are harping on this, mid season, we’re in the playoffs. Get your mind right

 

[TheCardFan]

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[Harry]

The irony. Agreeing that isn't wise to drawing conclusions, and then doing so in the very same sentence.

Actually I indicated the NYT author, who obviously had a long interview reached a conclusion. The thread issue was about drawing conclusions solely from the article. I simply indicated there were behaviors which seemed to support that conclusion, so it wasn’t a rush to judgment.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Actually I indicated the NYT author, who obviously had a long interview reached a conclusion. The thread issue was about drawing conclusions solely from the article. I simply indicated there were behaviors which seemed to support that conclusion, so it wasn’t a rush to judgment.

Do we know how much liberty Kyler has to call audibles at the line of scrimmage? Not every coach has a game manager like Brees/Brady/Peyton/Warner.

You also drew your own conclusion about him not recognizing defensive alignments, without having direct knowledge of so, based off a different report about game film. Irony is still thick.

 

[juza76]

Don’t know why fans are harping on this, mid season, we’re in the playoffs. Get your mind right

They are worried cause in the last 8 games the team is 3/5 and the last 2 games were painful to watch
One of the most used motto in the nfl
Is not the starts that matter but how u finish
There is a winning attitude on this team to overcome the losing streak?
Last season we watched the team collapse after a great start

 

[dreamcastrocks]

They are worried cause in the last 8 games the team is 3/5 and the last 2 games were painful to watch
One of the most used motto in the nfl
Is not the starts that matter but how u finish
There is a winning attitude on this team to overcome the losing streak?
Last season we watched the team collapse after a great start

Collapse isn't exactly fair but I hear you. Most teams fail to win with a backup and 3rd string QBs

 

[THESMEL]

They are worried cause in the last 8 games the team is 3/5 and the last 2 games were painful to watch
One of the most used motto in the nfl
Is not the starts that matter but how u finish
There is a winning attitude on this team to overcome the losing streak?
Last season we watched the team collapse after a great start

Yea, we’ll have whole off-season for that. can evaluate kliff and team after the season, I mean I understand. But damn - AZ fans are as much of the cloud over team as the national media, joke em if they can’t take a … we don’t run early. With Conner and chase healthy we ran chase twice and Conner once in the first half. I’m angry with kliff about that, say so, but still I’ll go down in flames with him, not even like their is a choice.

I want to out run the cowboys and beat the living snot out of them. be like the ole Batman show, BOP, BAM, DAK, ZEKE, SMASH, CRASH.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Really? You called me an ostrich, delusional, lame, divisive, I "don't understand simple concepts", etc. I could go on. Is that about me or about football?

There is a rule protecting Darksiders - why not protect Coolaiders as well?

Go ahead and deflect that you think its because I don't like other people's opinions. Plenty of proof against that theory on this board.

When someone disagrees with you...you try to belittle them.

I apologize for using any of that. You’re right. We should be better. I’m going to try to right my ship.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Absolutely. And I skew dark side right now, for sure. I have a decent amount of TheCardFan in my perspective, but probably more along the lines of Chopper. I don't need the opposite balance to give weight or credence to a particular websites validity. I just look at the article, and can make a pretty good guess as to its quality. As an example, all the USA Today team pages are garbage, and my first foray into fansided, I'm obviously less than impressed. I guess, if I look at a published "news" article, and it contains zero verifiable sourcing, and has crap editing, I tend to disregard it regardless of topic. But that doesnt mean I disagree with its premise.

I understand all that in regards to the article, but we were really talking about the quote. The only way to discredit that is to believe it didn’t come from an authentic source, it was quoted incorrectly, or it was quoted outta context, no?

 

[THESMEL]

Sounds like a bunch of pud whacking to me, I like ostriches, fine meal for a Cardinal.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think he was being sarcastic with the 24 hour remark. I certainly was left with the impression he doesn’t highly value film study. Here’s another quote from the article indicating the author agrees with me, “Murray does not watch much game film.” I agree it’s not wise to draw too many conclusions but his play, calling few audibles & no hot reads, seems to indicate he doesn’t recognize specific defensive alignments.

I’m not disagreeing that he doesn’t seem to place a great deal of importance on film study. I think that’s clear from the article. I felt that you were taking some liberties in stretching his comments into saying he doesn’t do it and that kliff makes it optional. I just dislike when posters make leaps in logic based on limited info. You kinda went from kyler dislikes film study to he doesn’t do it and kliff makes it optional.

Overall I agree that he’s missing an important opportunity to make himself better and kliff should be all over him about it.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I’m not disagreeing that he doesn’t seem to place a great deal of importance on film study. I think that’s clear from the article. I felt that you were taking some liberties in stretching his comments into saying he doesn’t do it and that kliff makes it optional. I just dislike when posters make leaps in logic based on limited info. You kinda went from kyler dislikes film study to he doesn’t do it and kliff makes it optional.

Overall I agree that he’s missing an important opportunity to make himself better and kliff should be all over him about it.

Exactly. That is why I pointed out the irony.