Why It’s a Risk to Hire a Coach With a Losing Record

[Harry]

Do we know how much liberty Kyler has to call audibles at the line of scrimmage? Not every coach has a game manager like Brees/Brady/Peyton/Warner.

You also drew your own conclusion about him not recognizing defensive alignments, without having direct knowledge of so, based off a different report about game film. Irony is still thick.

First of all it‘s inconceivable a third year QB doesn’t have absolute discretion to call an audible. Your giving away your knowledge level. I based my conclusion on alignments from watching & reviewing games. I believe my professional experience confirms that ability. Give me an example of a hot read you’ve seen him make. Again the lack of these things are obvious to an experienced observer. Watch another 3rd year QB. They’ll call several audibles a game. The only reason to do that is you’ve been given a play that is not efficient against the defensive alignment. You’ll see the QB turn his head to one side of the line to the other to make sure everyone has the new play. That behavior is rare with Murray. No coach always predicts the right play to call, so you have audibles especially in the red zone.

 

[schutd]

I understand all that in regards to the article, but we were really talking about the quote. The only way to discredit that is to believe it didn’t come from an authentic source, it was quoted incorrectly, or it was quoted outta context, no?

Sure. I guess what I'm saying is, unverified quote, I don't believe it. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I need some semblance of verifiability to lend credence. Anyone could have said that, including some intern. I work with people all the time who say they are chefs. They are not. They are cooks. DOes that make sense? I guess I'm not looking to discredit it, I just wont pay it mind.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sure. I guess what I'm saying is, unverified quote, I don't believe it. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I need some semblance of verifiability to lend credence. Anyone could have said that, including some intern. I work with people all the time who say they are chefs. They are not. They are cooks. DOes that make sense? I guess I'm not looking to discredit it, I just wont pay it mind.

I understand that. So what criteria makes a publication or writer “credible” to you? I understand taking things with a grain of salt, but I why read an article if you don’t believe it will contain some info you want? Like why even read that article if you are just going to dismiss it?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

First of all it‘s inconceivable a third year QB doesn’t have absolute discretion to call an audible. Your giving away your knowledge level. I based my conclusion on alignments from watching & reviewing games. I believe my professional experience confirms that ability. Give me an example of a hot read you’ve seen him make. Again the lack of these things are obvious to an experienced observer. Watch another 3rd year QB. They’ll call several audibles a game. The only reason to do that is you’ve been given a play that is not efficient against the defensive alignment. You’ll see the QB turn his head to one side of the line to the other to make sure everyone has the new play. That behavior is rare with Murray. No coach always predicts the right play to call, so you have audibles especially in the red zone.

I didn't say it was inconceivable that he doesn't have it. I said we don't know if he always has it.

You are STILL jumping to a conclusion, after you basically said that you shouldn't. But whatever. You sure are picking a weird hill to die on.

 

[daves]

Fansided have some "insight" on what's wrong in Glendale

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What a joke of an article.

“Honestly, I think it’s that Kliff has such an easy-going atmosphere in that building,” a league source with ties to the Cardinals tells FanSided. “Hell, leading into Week 1, the first team never practiced or played together at full-speed. Veterans hardly ever practice. There isn’t any structure or discipline there.”

Is this even remotely credible? Even if it WERE... if that approach is what led to the Cardinals pummeling the Titans in week 1 and getting off to a 7-0 start, I hope Kingsbury repeats it every year.

“They have just relied on the fact that they have superior talent the past two years,” the source says.

Suuuure... the Cardinals were LOADED with talent last year!

“With Kyler Murray, a little banged up, no DeAndre Hopkins, no Rondale Moore, it really lessens what defenses have to do to beat them,” the AFC Scouting Director says. “And defensively, losing Watt was just huge. He was really impactful before the injury.

Ummm... i thought this was supposed to be a hit piece on how Kingsburry is "overhyped and not a good coach"?!

“Here’s the problem with Arizona; they’re a finesse team. They race out to 7-0, and they’re playing in good climates. Three of those games are at home, three are in the heat. You get December and January, it’s not good climates. You’re screwed bigger than life. You’re going to places like Green Bay, and it’s like ‘wow we’re not used to this.'”

Three game were at home... but that obviously wasn't much of a benefit as anyone who was paying attention would know. "Three are in the heat". Yeah, pretty much every team plays in good weather in September and October. And the weather was pretty ****** when the clobbered the Browns.

The whole article was an amateurish hit-piece completely devoid of substance. Plenty of posters here have voiced legitimate questions and doubts about Kingsbury, but that article was complete dreck by utter know-nothings, entirely unworthy of being mentioned here.

...dave

 

[Stout]

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This is highly relevant, because the 2021 team still has the vast maturity, consistency, and experience of Kurt Warner to lead them to the promised land. This 2021 team still has an in-his-prime Fitz and Anquan Boldin to throw. The 2021 team has those weapons to overcome other roster holes and defensive deficiencies. The 2021 has all of those weapons to snap out of the slide, right? Oh, they don't? Then I guess this is an incredibly irrelevant comparison. You know. Just sayin'.

 

[Harry]

Sure. I guess what I'm saying is, unverified quote, I don't believe it. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I need some semblance of verifiability to lend credence. Anyone could have said that, including some intern. I work with people all the time who say they are chefs. They are not. They are cooks. DOes that make sense? I guess I'm not looking to discredit it, I just wont pay it mind.

What??? This is The NY Times. Shpigel has been covering sports for them since 2005. Before that he worked for the Dallas Morning News. I suspect if he were making up quotes he would have been outed by now. You guys are grasping at straws. Murray said it.

 

[Harry]

I didn't say it was inconceivable that he doesn't have it. I said we don't know if he always has it.

You are STILL jumping to a conclusion, after you basically said that you shouldn't. But whatever. You sure are picking a weird hill to die on.

I feel quite good for a dead guy! Don’t think this was a case of jumping as opposed to substantiating.

 

[TheCardFan]

Here is the quote from the NY Times FWIW:

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[PlayerHater]

They are worried cause in the last 8 games the team is 3/5 and the last 2 games were painful to watch
One of the most used motto in the nfl
Is not the starts that matter but how u finish
There is a winning attitude on this team to overcome the losing streak?
Last season we watched the team collapse after a great start

Correct

This is the part of the season that contenders separate from pretenders. Look at the good teams in the league like the Bills, Cowboys, Chiefs etc.. they are on winning streaks not losing streaks. Good teams are playing their best football of the season right now, not getting blown out by awful teams like the Lions.

This team simply does not have the leadership needed to back into the playoffs and all of a sudden be successful against top tier teams. Peter Schrager who was on the sidelines of the Colts game made a comment that the teams attitude during that loss was just flat with no emotion and no leadership. That is not the attitude of a championship football team in late December.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Correct

This is the part of the season that contenders separate from pretenders. Look at the good teams in the league like the Bills, Cowboys, Chiefs etc.. they are on winning streaks not losing streaks. Good teams are playing their best football of the season right now, not getting blown out by awful teams like the Lions.

This team simply does not have the leadership needed to back into the playoffs and all of a sudden be successful against top tier teams. Peter Schrager who was on the sidelines of the Colts game made a comment that the teams attitude during that loss was just flat with no emotion and no leadership. That is not the attitude of a championship football team in late December.

I think its a bit unfair when some of those other teams are finally getting healthy and the Cards resemble a mash unit the last few games. When healthy Id put the Cards up against any team in the league.

 

[PlayerHater]

I think its a bit unfair when some of those other teams are finally getting healthy and the Cards resemble a mash unit the last few games. When healthy Id put the Cards up against any team in the league.

The cards just lost to a Rams team that had a Covid outbreak that took several players out, a awful Lions team that was missing several starters and a Colts team that was missing it's entire O Line. Every team is dealing with Covid and Injuries right now. Injuries are not an excuse for poor play and lack of motivation in the NFL.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

The cards just lost to a Rams team that had a Covid outbreak that took several players out, a awful Lions team that was missing several starters and a Colts team that was missing it's entire O Line. Every team is dealing with Covid and Injuries right now. Injuries are not an excuse for poor play and lack of motivation in the NFL.

Like I told Cheese or Ouchie or Stout??? The Cards are not a deep team. Our second team is like any other teams 3rd team. Our stars pretty much have to be injury free for us to compete on a high level. That's just the way it is unfortunately.

 

[DaHilg]

Like I told Cheese or Ouchie or Stout??? The Cards are not a deep team. Our second team is like any other teams 3rd team. Our stars pretty much have to be injury free for us to compete on a high level. That's just the way it is unfortunately.

Very accurate when compared to playoff teams. You could argue the bull of our starters would be back-ups on playoff teams as well.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What a joke of an article.

Is this even remotely credible? Even if it WERE... if that approach is what led to the Cardinals pummeling the Titans in week 1 and getting off to a 7-0 start, I hope Kingsbury repeats it every year.

Suuuure... the Cardinals were LOADED with talent last year!

Ummm... i thought this was supposed to be a hit piece on how Kingsburry is "overhyped and not a good coach"?!

Three game were at home... but that obviously wasn't much of a benefit as anyone who was paying attention would know. "Three are in the heat". Yeah, pretty much every team plays in good weather in September and October. And the weather was pretty ****** when the clobbered the Browns.

The whole article was an amateurish hit-piece completely devoid of substance. Plenty of posters here have voiced legitimate questions and doubts about Kingsbury, but that article was complete dreck by utter know-nothings, entirely unworthy of being mentioned here.

...dave

I mean hate how the piece was put together all you want, and pick apart the quotes, but at the end of the day if those are quotes from legit nfl personnel it’s a worthwhile piece to see their perspective alone, unless you’re accusing the author of making up quotes.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Like I told Cheese or Ouchie or Stout??? The Cards are not a deep team. Our second team is like any other teams 3rd team. Our stars pretty much have to be injury free for us to compete on a high level. That's just the way it is unfortunately.

I don’t think this verifiable or a certainty.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

I don’t think this verifiable or a certainty.

Judging by the eye test its pretty certain to me. Do you think we perform at the same level when we're missing our starters?

 

[GatorAZ]

This is highly relevant, because the 2021 team still has the vast maturity, consistency, and experience of Kurt Warner to lead them to the promised land. This 2021 team still has an in-his-prime Fitz and Anquan Boldin to throw. The 2021 team has those weapons to overcome other roster holes and defensive deficiencies. The 2021 has all of those weapons to snap out of the slide, right? Oh, they don't? Then I guess this is an incredibly irrelevant comparison. You know. Just sayin'.

The 08’ team was a complete enigma and shouldn’t be used in any comparison IMO.

 

[DVontel]

The 08’ team was a complete enigma and shouldn’t be used in any comparison IMO.

Right. Also don’t think we’ll be facing a rookie QB & another QB coming off Tommy John surgery either.

 

[cardpa]

We have 10 wins and are going to the playoffs (first time since 2015). We have a franchise QB. Giddy up!


I would disagree that its a healthy amount of cheering together or an appropriate amount of criticism. People personally attack others and shout them down with negativity if they don't agree. This board wanted KK and VJ fired after year 1, then they liked KK at the beginning of 2020, then they wanted him fired again. 2021 - People loved Keim, KK, and KJ - now people want to fire them and blow up the team for a 3 game losing streak. We had a 7 game winning streak for the first time since 1974 and then we went 10-2. Some people choose to look at the entirety of the season and the progress that has been made each year from 2018 (worst team in the NFL). Some act like they are fans of an NFL dynasty and have zero tolerance for any missed plays, bad decisions, or lost games. That is just not reality. Only 1 team in the NFL wins the Super Bowl each year. We have to crawl, walk, run to get where we want to go and then stay there for a long time. I like the progress that has been made and am very optimistic about the future.

Some of us believe we have seen enough and do not believe KK is going to ever amount to anything more than a mediocre coach, other like you believe he's on the right track and will continue to get better and take the team to new heights. With this I pose a question to you, how many more seasons are you willing to give him if the present scenario (the Jekyll and Hyde halves) continues into the future before you say maybe Kliff isn't the guy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Judging by the eye test its pretty certain to me. Do you think we perform at the same level when we're missing or starters?

Early in the season we were.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The 08’ team was a complete enigma and shouldn’t be used in any comparison IMO.

Agreed. They made a miracle run, heavily influenced by the playoffs and seeding falling PERFECTLY in line.

Think about this... we hosted the NFC Championship... after going into the playoffs with the worst record of ALL the playoff teams.

 

[schutd]

What??? This is The NY Times. Shpigel has been covering sports for them since 2005. Before that he worked for the Dallas Morning News. I suspect if he were making up quotes he would have been outed by now. You guys are grasping at straws. Murray said it.

No no no no no. Apologies. If we're talking about unverifiable quotes, Im referring to the specific convo I was having with Ouchie regarding the fansided article. If I was unclear there, sorry. But since we're here, lets talk the NYT article.

I have issues with posters assumptions/reading-into the NYT article as well, insofar as I read it very differently than most of y'all. But I haven't gotten into it because its apparent there's no getting people to see alternate perspectives. What I read was (paraphrasing, but with key words) "Im not the type TO KILL MYSELF" watching film. Yes, that is indicative of a player pushing back against the traditional route to greatness in the NFL. Hence, a bunch of old guys like us take issue with it. I also see what everyone else sees, and I too have issues with it in terms of his current level of play. But I also realize that times change, and maybe there are other routes to greatness. Who knows. Im the epitome of a knows-enough-to-be-dangerous football fan.

I guess I read it from the perspective that the writer was fascinated (in awe almost) with Kyler Murrays approach to football. That interview most certainly happened before his current swoon, and its timing might even be more lucrative for the writer now that said swoon has happened. Its a lot more click baity when the subject of all that reverence (again, my interpretation) is getting knocked down a peg or two. More clicks, yadda yadda yadda. People like to kick a guy when he's down.

Now, we've all seen how poorly KM has been playing, but I personally am far less concerned about a quote like that, because if it had come out when he was literally destroying teams early in the season this board would be cooing about his greatness. It is what it is.

Thats my take on the NYT article in a nutshell. That kind of stuff means little to me in the grand scheme of things. Its just part of the whole picture we are still drawing of this young man.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don’t think this verifiable or a certainty.

Agreed. We won road division games without our starting QB, Pro Bowl WR and multiple offensive linemen. You don’t do that with 3rd string depth.

And if you DO believe we have terrible depth... why do people believe that will change when the guy in charge of getting depth will still be calling the shots there.

 

[schutd]

I understand that. So what criteria makes a publication or writer “credible” to you? I understand taking things with a grain of salt, but I why read an article if you don’t believe it will contain some info you want? Like why even read that article if you are just going to dismiss it?

Well, I believed it would. But then the "unnamed AFC scout" nonsense popped up. The info is still interesting, just less believable, therefore holds less weight with me when looking at the overall picture