Why Josh Dobbs Likely Can’t Be Fixed

Harry

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I still can’t believe the Cards traded for Dobbs. He’s a smart guy who actually did study rocket science. However, his NFL career is more like, “Houston, we have a problem.”

My main concern is if you look at the criticisms scouts made when Dobbs came out, they are still true. I had to chuckle when people talked about Tune overthrowing short receivers. Dobbs overthrows everyone. Thats why they try to avoid him throwing patterns of 10 yds or more in the middle of the field. Even shorter throws are often high. Consider the potential TD throw to Ertz. To close out his senior year in college he had a near double digit interception rate on his throws over 10 yards. In the 9 NFL games he’s played, he only had 3 interceptions. However, he had a long pass of 39 yds and averaged less than 10 yards a throw. Like the Cards, teams didn’t like him throwing long. The problem is partly his footwork. He still often throws off balance. He also has a tendency to apparently decide where he’s going to throw before the snap. Consequently he fails to throw to multiple open receivers as he did in his Cards’ debut.

Then there’s ball security. In 9 NFL games (3 starts)he fumbled 7 times. To put that in perspective, we complained about Murray’s ball security. He fumbled 35 times in 57 starts. Dobbs cost the Titans the playoffs with his last Tennessee fumble.

Finally, even in college his ball placement was bad. He doesn’t throw those frozen ropes good QBs toss. He more often floats the ball. The longer the play lasts, the more likely he seems to get confused about defender position. He’s especially blind to see defenders closing from the opposite direction the receivers are heading.

Finally there are poise concerns. Most QBs do better when not under pressure. Dobbs seems unusually vulnerable. He’ll wait on his chosen receiver too long. He also waits too long to abandon a collapsing pocket, exposing him to turnovers. If 4 other teams haven’t fixed his issues, why assume the Cards can?

In the end there are QB problems you can solve easily. Those aren’t the problem Dobbs has. There are QBs who seem to quickly adjust to needed mechanical changes; that’s not Dobbs. The longer problems exist; the harder they are to fix. Dobbs has had these problems from college onward. He’s not an NFL starter and 4 teams believed he wasn’t an NFL backup. On of the big causes of coaching failure is when coaches believe they are smarter than everyone else. If they really believe Dobbs is an NFL starter, this is a truly major concern. Hopefully it’s all about tanking.
 

Card'em

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This is a good analysis of Dobbs. I don't think anybody considers him a starting NFL quarterback. The question is, can he be a suitable backup and is he better than Blough or other QB's that were available? He may be better than Blough, but I don't think Blough is a decent backup QB either.
 

kerouac9

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In the 9 NFL games he’s played, he only had 3 interceptions. However, he had a long pass of 39 yds and averaged less than 10 yards a throw.
Do you mean Air Yards per attempt, or Yards per attempt (YPA)?

The highest YPA last season was under 10 -- Tua at 8.9.

Also, it's super-weird to say 9 games played. He has 17 total passing attempts in his first six "games." I don't know how meaningful those are.
In 9 NFL games (3 starts)he fumbled 7 times. To put that in perspective, we complained about Murray’s ball security.

Again, I don't think the 2018 or 2020 season appearances are meaningful. BUT -- Dobbs has seven fumbles in three games/starts. That's troubling.

I think people complained about the mechanics of Kyler Murray's rushing ability. I've never really worried about his actual fumbles.

Danny Dimes is a small-handed fumble artists and has a mind-bending 44 fumbles in 54 career starts.

He’s not an NFL starter and 4 teams believed he wasn’t an NFL backup. On of the big causes of coaching failure is when coaches believe they are smarter than everyone else. If they really believe Dobbs is an NFL starter, this is a truly major concern. Hopefully it’s all about tanking.

He's not an NFL starter, and he's probably not a meaningful #2 QB. I asked if Dobbs was among the best 45 QBs in the NFL on the game thread; I don't think he is. Now I wonder if he's among the best 60 QBs in the NFL.

McCoy must've been extremely washed in practices even before the MN trip. By August Monti and JG were out of solutions, I guess.
 

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Great analysis but a waste of time.
Could just have said Josh Dobbs is terrible and saved your time.
Everybody pretty much hated the trade.

I dunno. The gamut seemed to run from "This means nothing actually" to hating the trade. It's just that, I think, the temperature of the people who realized that Josh Dobbs was going to be our Week 1 starter was so hot that "this means nothing" felt like a hot endorsement.

I don't think anyone thought that Josh Dobbs would not look meaningfully different than Blough or Driskoll. Now the trade looks very dumb, but I don't think the Sunshine Patrol can bring themselves around to admit that. They'll just say that it doesn't matter.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Dowa he need to be fixed? He is what he is. On Sunday if Ertz makes that catch and Hernandez doesn't trip, the offense gets 10 more points and the Cards win. Ugly, for sure, but still a win.

If he doesn't cough up the ball, they also likely win...again it would be ugly, but a win.
 
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Harry

Harry

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Do you mean Air Yards per attempt, or Yards per attempt (YPA)?

The highest YPA last season was under 10 -- Tua at 8.9.
I meant yards per completion. Of QBs with 10 starts last season that also was Tua with 13.7.
 
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Harry

Harry

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I should have added this doesn’t mean he couldn’t have one acceptable game, but no consistency. The odds are against it, but odd things happens.
 

lobo

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Great analysis but a waste of time.
Could just have said Josh Dobbs is terrible and saved your time.
Everybody pretty much hated the trade.
Exactly. This was truly a foolish trade....whomever made the decision cannot show us where there was any value or sense in doing this and just raises suspicion. Please don't bring up the 'knows the playbook story." That is true hokum. Based on what we saw and looking at his history it would be better of he DIDN'T know the playbook. A Colt Mc with one wing and the other battered made more sense....I gotta' feel any playbook he knows would have yielded better than we saw.
 

Goldfield

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I dunno. The gamut seemed to run from "This means nothing actually" to hating the trade. It's just that, I think, the temperature of the people who realized that Josh Dobbs was going to be our Week 1 starter was so hot that "this means nothing" felt like a hot endorsement.

I don't think anyone thought that Josh Dobbs would not look meaningfully different than Blough or Driskoll. Now the trade looks very dumb, but I don't think the Sunshine Patrol can bring themselves around to admit that. They'll just say that it doesn't matter.
It was dumb. For a 5th I’m not going to dwell over it but it was dumb.
 

kerouac9

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I meant yards per completion. Of QBs with 10 starts last season that also was Tua with 13.7.
Yeah, but Dobbs’ career YPC is 8.9.

Would have been dead last last season, but just 0.2 yards per completion more than Kyler Murray (career YPC 10.5).

Sample size is still vanishingly small; it's hard to make a statistical case against Dobbs yet. The eyeball test against him is strong.

I think if he fumbles twice more and we lose close to New York, it becomes impossible to keep running him out there.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Dowa he need to be fixed? He is what he is. On Sunday if Ertz makes that catch and Hernandez doesn't trip, the offense gets 10 more points and the Cards win. Ugly, for sure, but still a win.

If he doesn't cough up the ball, they also likely win...again it would be ugly, but a win.
Lots of if’s I that post.
If I could shoot a 68 every time I played golf, I’d be on the PGA tour.
 

Phrazbit

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What does Dobbs do at an above average rate?

What does Dobbs do at even an average rate?

I don't get the acquisition at all.

It's a 5th round pick, so it's not a travesty in itself, but in a very short time this regime has pissed away a several assets in really strange ways.

I have a really hard time believing that we couldn't have stuck with what we had and produced similar or better results, OR plucked someone off the waiver wire who could do the same... I also think there was a real chance Dobbs would have been sitting there on the waiver wire, he wasn't ahead of Watson or Thompson-Robinson on Cleveland's depth, I am sure of that.
 

Crimson Warrior

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What does Dobbs do at an above average rate?

What does Dobbs do at even an average rate?

I don't get the acquisition at all.

It's a 5th round pick, so it's not a travesty in itself, but in a very short time this regime has pissed away a several assets in really strange ways.

I have a really hard time believing that we couldn't have stuck with what we had and produced similar or better results, OR plucked someone off the waiver wire who could do the same... I also think there was a real chance Dobbs would have been sitting there on the waiver wire, he wasn't ahead of Watson or Thompson-Robinson on Cleveland's depth, I am sure of that.

I'm not saying Dobbs is going to improve dramatically this Sunday, but we only have one data point for his tenure in ARZ, and that was with a limited amount of time to prepare.

It's conceivable he could play better against the NY Giants and so it's a little early to be shoveling dirt onto his Cardinals' grave.

With that said, I'm in the camp that thinks you give Astro the entire 2nd game to get it going a little, but if he can't, maybe fire the rook out there for week three. There won't be much left to lose at that point.

But I also think the coaching staff may stay with Dobbs for longer than two games no matter how poorly he plays. They have a lot invested in him.
 

football karma

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I don't think anyone thought that Josh Dobbs would not look meaningfully different than Blough or Driskoll.
this is my take -- although given Dobbs mobility, i was hoping for a bit of upside from that --

as an example: last game Sam Howell was bad, but on two key 3rd downs got TDs by using his legs. Diff in the game

Havent seen that from Dobbs
 

CardNots

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I'm not saying Dobbs is going to improve dramatically this Sunday, but we only have one data point for his tenure in ARZ, and that was with a limited amount of time to prepare.

It's conceivable he could play better against the NY Giants and so it's a little early to be shoveling dirt onto his Cardinals' grave.

With that said, I'm in the camp that thinks you give Astro the entire 2nd game to get it going a little, but if he can't, maybe fire the rook out there for week three. There won't be much left to lose at that point.

But I also think the coaching staff may stay with Dobbs for longer than two games no matter how poorly he plays. They have a lot invested in him.
Don’t think either cowboys or 49ers will be Tune’s first game.
 
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Garthshort

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Fingers crossed that Arizona FB and Dobbs has a better game against NY FB, than Arizona BB had against NY BB, yesterday.
 

Card'em

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I agree that I don't think they'll put the rookie Tune in against San Francisco or Dallas. Dobbs gets 4 games to show that he is a capable backup QB and Tune gets 4 games to watch and learn. If Kyler isn't back for game 5, which looks to be the case, and Dobbs continues to struggle, I would expect to see Tune in game 5.
 

Krangodnzr

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I don't think Dobbs can be "fixed". He's a stopgap acquired with a late round pick to be a placeholder.

All the Cardinals need from him right now is to complete a few more meaningful passes and not turn the ball over. That might happen with a bit more prep. Improved timing with receivers and more familiarity with the team could help.
 
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