Why saying Boldin should play out his original contract is crazy

[Russ Smith]

3 of our top five games last year scoring were without Boldin. Yes - they were all against bad teams - but so were the other two games with Boldin (SF and the Lambs).

Scoring average without Boldin - 18.7

Scoring avergae WITH Boldin - 17.2

I'd say it was just about even getting to the endzone without Boldin - atcually even a little better (although the loop de loo QB rotation could have something to do with that - although before Josh got yanked - we put up a paltry 17 against a woeful Giants D and only 90 yards passing - so that's debatable.

That's because Hambrick was hurt, he was the key to our whole offense.


Ok I admit I have no ready made answer for why scoring went down with Quan. My guess is starting King and Navarre had something to do with it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

To be acurate you should include playing musical QB's with Boldin's scoring average.

i did put a disclaimer there - "although the loop de loo QB rotation could have something to do with that - although before Josh got yanked - we put up a paltry 17 against a woeful Giants D and only 90 yards passing - so that's debatable."

to be honest - the 3 we scored against the Jets likely would have been a 3 regardless of who was in there and hell, I'll be generous and give us 10 in that game and it STILL would have been 18.7 - just like without him.

 

[MadCardDisease]

i did put a disclaimer there - "although the loop de loo QB rotation could have something to do with that - although before Josh got yanked - we put up a paltry 17 against a woeful Giants D and only 90 yards passing - so that's debatable."

to be honest - the 3 we scored against the Jets likely would have been a 3 regardless of who was in there and hell, I'll be generous and give us 10 in that game and it STILL would have been 18.7 - just like without him.

So what you really are saying is we should cut all of our QB's from last year and give their money to Boldin!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Sorry I figured I ought to put this in a new thread since there's not enough Boldin threads.

The single worst thing the Cards could do IMHO is force Quan to play out his original deal and then renegotiate it, here's why. Quan has 2 years left, 2005, and 2006. Even if we assume Quan is going to willingly negotiate a new deal during the 06 season to avoid being a UFA( a huge IF assuming we force him to play out the original deal), that means we're negotiating a big 2nd contract for him that gives him a big bonus and a higher cap value in 2006.

As I mentioned in another thread, due to the nature of the contract the Cards gave Fitzgerald, they virtually HAVE to renegotiate his deal before 2008 or they owe him 8.5 million in bonus in 08 and 16 in 09. The only way we don't owe him that is if he never makes the pro bowl, or fails to play in 35% of our offensive plays. I'm not even a huge Fitz believer and even I think he'll make at least one pro bowl during that time. and let's face it, if Fitz hasn't made a probowl in his first 4 years there's no way in hell I'm giving him an 8.5 million bonus before year 5.

Does anybody really think it's good sound financial practice to sign one star WR to a HUGE deal in 2006 knowing full well you're going to have to sign the other one to a new deal the very next year? Not as bad as them both being in the same year for sure but imagine the signing bonus cash we're laying out in consecutive years, and imagine how much the contract you give Boldin is going to impact the contract Fitzgerald wants the next year?

The reality is it IF the cards intend to keep Anquan for a long time, it's in their best interests to redo the deal now not later.

 

[Shane]

1 - Boldin played in 10 games last year

2 - Boldin was 160 yards behind Fitz (who wasn't healthy all year playing through an ankle sprain that never got the chance to fully heal)

3 - 3 of our highest scoring game sof the season came WITHOUT Boldin.

4 - Fitz had 8 TDs to Boldin's 1

5 - Fitz had 7 plays of 30 or more - Boldin had 2

6 - Fitz had a 13.4 yard per average versus Boldin's 11.1

Fitz was a rookie, on a bum ankle, with a horrendous QB throwing at him with a second year guy BJ who was an average reciever next to him versus Boldin
who had a below average QB, with ABSOLUTELY ZERO OTHER OPTIONS to throw to his first year (and for all his stats - not one lead to a win).

That's more of an accurate description.

The team could still win 9 games without Boldin - but they DO have a MUCH BETTER chance to be scary with him.

Either way - I'm confident a deal will get done or we'll be better off without it.

Actually Cheesy. Boldin had that same "bumb" throwing to him when he was playing as well,and two other bumbs. Yet in nearly 6 1/2 less games Quan still caught as many passes as Fitz. He had two 100 yard games soemthing Fitz failed to reach at any point during the year.

Lets stop using Fitz ankle as an excuse he was healthy enough to play from day one. He was not visible limping out there due to it. So we really dont know the extent of it. Heck his first catch out of the box on the year was a 40 yard bomb. Couldnt have been bothering him to bad.

The only thing I will give Fitz is the TDs. But hard to even do that when he played in 6 1/2 more games.

If you read Russ post earlier it shows clearly how much Fitz benefitted from Quan being in there.

The bottom line is Fitz really hasnet proven that he was worth what he was payed, or proven he will be a star in this league. Anyone that thinks this team will be just fine without Quan is nuts IMO. Were one injury away from having Bryant Johnson as our #1.

 

[conraddobler]

Actually Cheesy. Boldin had that same "bumb" throwing to him when he was playing as well,and two other bumbs. Yet in nearly 6 1/2 less games Quan still caught as many passes as Fitz. He had two 100 yard games soemthing Fitz failed to reach at any point during the year.

Lets stop using Fitz ankle as an excuse he was healthy enough to play from day one. He was not visible limping out there due to it. So we really dont know the extent of it. Heck his first catch out of the box on the year was a 40 yard bomb. Couldnt have been bothering him to bad.

The only thing I will give Fitz is the TDs. But hard to even do that when he played in 6 1/2 more games.

If you read Russ post earlier it shows clearly how much Fitz benefitted from Quan being in there.

The bottom line is Fitz really hasnet proven that he was worth what he was payed, or proven he will be a star in this league. Anyone that thinks this team will be just fine without Quan is nuts IMO. Were one injury away from having Bryant Johnson as our #1.

Well I don't think it's nuts to assume our defense is the strength of the team.

I don't think we will be as well off without Boldin if he is traded this year but in the very near future yes we would be because you'd have to assume we'd get something of value for him.

I hope Boldin stays, I hope he takes a reasonable but large raise but if he wants the moon just to get traded then don't pay him the moon trade him.

This is not about who's better, Quan is of the two, this is not about would we be better off with him or not we would.

This is simply about reasonable. I think that if we stay reasonable it's fine and reasonable to me would be a very large raise and even tearing up his deal. I don't see a problem with that I just don't know what he's asking for so I really can't say what's the problem.

Life without Q wouldn't be without hope though and there is a point at which his demands make it more attractive to trade him than pay him. We'll see what point we are at around training camp.

If he holds out for very long then he's probably going to be traded.

 

[Urubu Rei]

The Cardinals are in the way of having a big year, and lose Boldin (or trade) would be a serious set back.

No one can deny that he got back in the middle of the season, and had a good performance, mostly by the end , when he got the rythm back.

I say give him a fair contract, that somehow would not be a cap killer in the case of a future trade, and send a message for the rest of the players: produce and you will be rewarded.
Then next offseason or later, decide if keeping 2 high paid WRs is a good cap policy or not, but lets win first!!!

 

[WildBB]

Anyway , to reiterate, yea - BOLDIN DESERVES A BETTER CONTRACT. On that there's no debate.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well I don't think it's nuts to assume our defense is the strength of the team.

I don't think we will be as well off without Boldin if he is traded this year but in the very near future yes we would be because you'd have to assume we'd get something of value for him.

I hope Boldin stays, I hope he takes a reasonable but large raise but if he wants the moon just to get traded then don't pay him the moon trade him.

This is not about who's better, Quan is of the two, this is not about would we be better off with him or not we would.

This is simply about reasonable. I think that if we stay reasonable it's fine and reasonable to me would be a very large raise and even tearing up his deal. I don't see a problem with that I just don't know what he's asking for so I really can't say what's the problem.

Life without Q wouldn't be without hope though and there is a point at which his demands make it more attractive to trade him than pay him. We'll see what point we are at around training camp.

If he holds out for very long then he's probably going to be traded.

totally agree.

I mean for all that Q is - it's not exactly like we had hope when he had his great season two years ago and it's not like the offense all of a sudden got that much better when he returned (from what Shane called a minor knee injury).

That being said - we have a MUCH BETTER chance of being very scary WITH Q, but if for some reason we had to trade him - I think we'd be just as well off in the future - and maybe struggle to get 9 wins this season.

 

[jmr667]

This whole debate has got to be the biggest non-issue of a dead horse ever beat to death on this board.
Quan wants a new contract, DG has said Quan deserves a new contract, the Cards have even offered a new contract. Somehow this leads me to think that maybe just maybe a new deal will get done and we don't need to panic yet.
Negotions got started but there is this whole draft and free agency thing going on. Quan's contract is probably not the highest priority since the Cards do not have to worry about him signing with anyone else before the season starts. Now that the draft and the really competetive portion of free agency are over the Cards people can spend some time working out the details of the new contract with Q and his agent.

 

[NFL_FAN]

Anyways I would love to keep both but if Bolden insists to be paid like a QB and his absence is in anyway a distraction then I wouldn't blame the Cardinals for looking to see what they can get.

Maybe a quality tight end and a pick in 2006 draft? But from who?

 

[Rocco]

Interesting debate. But what we're going through now with Quan is just the beginning of what we'll see once this franchise starts to win big.

Everyone else in the league that wins deals with this and we'll have to do the same. There's no point in trading or denigrating every good player that's going to want a raise and we won't ever have the cap space to pay every player what they're sure to think they're worth. It's not a big deal really, just a part of the game. We'll just have to do the best we can.

The only alternative is to have a team full of cheap, young, crappy players. We know from experience that's not much fun.

 

[conraddobler]

Interesting debate. But what we're going through now with Quan is just the beginning of what we'll see once this franchise starts to win big.

Everyone else in the league that wins deals with this and we'll have to do the same. There's no point in trading or denigrating every good player that's going to want a raise and we won't ever have the cap space to pay every player what they're sure to think they're worth. It's not a big deal really, just a part of the game. We'll just have to do the best we can.

The only alternative is to have a team full of cheap, young, crappy players. We know from experience that's not much fun.

Excellent point, I'd just add that you do have to chose your battles that's part of it too.

On the whole I have a feeling that it might work out alright. If the only problem is a new deal or extending it then the numbers aren't the problem and that's a good sign.