Why saying Boldin should play out his original contract is crazy

[conraddobler]

It occurs to me that DG is not stupid, one would assume that Fitz is his favorite and that he may like Boldin and even want him on the team yet if you begin to dig into the realities of it, realities that DG knew full well when he drafted Fitzgerald, it becomes pretty apparent that DG has checkmated management in my opinion and that what will happen is that he gets to trade Boldin.

Russ brought this up a long long time ago and if you follow the logic you come to the conclusion that Fitz was the pick DG wanted no matter what and even he said you take the BPA and then if you are stocked you can always use them for trade bait.

To me at this point, Boldin is worth more in trade than on our team. Due to the similarities of Boldin and Fitz to me that is just the reality and bucking up huge $ for Boldin while I agree he is worth it, I would not agree that we are necessarily the right team to do it.

Personally I would have taken Roy Willams and none of this would be an issue at all but DG didn't and so this is where we sit because of it.

 

[Russ Smith]

No, I think Kevin Kasper was the anti-Boston.

Boston and Boldin are closer than you think. They're the last 2 receivers to give the Cards front office headaches, and they both think they are worth much more than they really are.

Bryant Johnson signed late because he was so greedy he refused to split the remaining rookie pool money down the middle with Calvin Pace. Since he was picked ONE SLOT ahead of Pace, he wanted more money, even though the Cards could have easily said we had 2 picks in a row, we drafted alphabetically. The Cards got so fed up with Johnson they not only signed Pace first, they gave him MORE than half the money. Johnson wasn't at the workouts either, why, because he was in school at Penn State apparently. Now I certainly think it's great he wants to get his degree that he didn't get in his 4 years at Penn State and 2 years out, I do wonder why he's getting a free pass for not being there because of school?

At this point in his career especially given Boldin's situation, Bryant Johnson should be there, he's not.

I think he's given us some headaches too is my point. In fact JOhnson's initial contract was so contemptuous he delayed us signing Boldin too, we eventually just signed Quan, signed Pace and with Johnson backed into a corner, he finally signed.

 

[Russ Smith]

To me at this point, Boldin is worth more in trade than on our team. Due to the similarities of Boldin and Fitz to me that is just the reality and bucking up huge $ for Boldin while I agree he is worth it, I would not agree that we are necessarily the right team to do it.

Personally I would have taken Roy Willams and none of this would be an issue at all but DG didn't and so this is where we sit because of it.

The problem now is who would you trade him for? I'm sure there are teams out there who need a productive WR but what do they offer in return and do we need it? Basically we're limiting ourselves to teams who have a WR wanting a new deal just like us, and virtually all of them have the same agent.

About the only guy out there who I think you could make an argument for who's NOT a WR, is Julian Peterson in SF and they won't trade within the division and since he's coming off that achilles tear he's as big a health risk as Quan is. I don't see too many other players of that talent level who aren't happy with their contracts and might be on the trading block.

Just no easy answer to me. My hope all along has been Quan is not Portis, he's not TO, and when push comes to shove Quan will tell Rosenhaus look I want to be a Cardinal, I want to play, I don't want to sit. I still hope that's eventually going to be his stance.

 

[conraddobler]

Oh I agree we need some protection should he get hurt again. But as for the stuff that so many say about one good year.

Last year Quan had 56 catches 623 yards 11.1 YPC and 2 TD's coming off the knee surgery. He played in 10 games starting 9, topped 100 yards twice, had a low of 31 twice.

In those same 10 games Fitz had 32 catches for 409 yards 12.78 YPC, 6 TD's. He had a game of 0 catcches, a game of 1 catch, 2 games of 2 catches. Game of 0 yards, game of 2 yards, game of 12 yards, game of 21 yards.

The fewest catches Quan had in a game last year was 3, Fitz had less than that in FOUR games of the 10 Quan played in.

Quan in the lineup really helped FItz score TD's, 6 in ten games with him, 2 in 6 games without him. But his other stats all went down, 3.2 catches per game with him, 4.3 without him. 12.78 YPC with him, 14.3 without him. Fact is that when they played together, Fitz wasn't nearly as effective as Quan was.

So if we're worried that Quan's rookie year was a fluke, we should REALLY be worrying about how overpaid and overrated Fitz is given those numbers.

Again, I'm not advocating making Quan the highest paid WR in the game, but we gotta come to some middle ground here because if people think we're going to get fair value in trading him it's VERY unlikely. Most of the disgruntled WR's who might get traded have the same agent Quan does, anybody want to trade for Santana Moss or Javon Walker and go through the same mess? Of all Rosenhaus' clients, Quan is probably the best character guy.

To me this is a pretty simple issue, Boldin is probably worth more to another team that needs his type of WR than to us.

Fact is as you brought up way back when the die was cast when DG took Fitz.

Can we have both on the team? sure can, should we have both on the team? ummm not so sure.

That's a ton of $ to tie up in WR that don't exactly complement each other as much as other types of WR would.

To me the value you could get from a trade is much more than keeping him.

I would take a 1st and a 2nd for him and consider ourselves way ahead of the game considering how well DG drafts.

 

[Slacker]

I posted under another topic here but I will say it again. Pick up Hakim and let him sit. Receivers are expendable. In a year that everyone expects the Cards to really make a move, he decides to sit. That is all that needs to be said.

 

[earthsci]

I would take a 1st and a 2nd for him and consider ourselves way ahead of the game considering how well DG drafts.

If we traded with Cleveland or SF. I wouldn't like it if the trade was with NE, Philly or Minnesota.

 

[joko4]

I posted under another topic here but I will say it again. Pick up Hakim and let him sit. Receivers are expendable. In a year that everyone expects the Cards to really make a move, he decides to sit. That is all that needs to be said.

HERE HERE
Can't stand TO, and now we get TOjr.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

I know player for player trades don't happen often and I don't know the cap ramifications but if Bolden wil not accept anything less than a deal that would put the Cardinals in cap hell. I would trade Bolden for Heap in a second.

 

[conraddobler]

If we traded with Cleveland or SF. I wouldn't like it if the trade was with NE, Philly or Minnesota.

Well true in that they are going to be picking way way down most likely.

They also aren't likely to be the ones giving picks for a guy like Boldin.

I just don't see him as that awfully important to get all worked up about. His best attribute was his team let's get it done mentality. He's losing that at a pretty fast rate and so I say give him a fair offer and if he refuses it and isn't reasonable about it then just let him sit.

The only point I would make is that if you can get a 1st and a 2nd for the guy that would be enough, Heck I'd take a 1st and a 3rd even but he should have at least that much value.

 

[wilycoyote24]

It is a terrible idea to pay him for what he did in his rookie season without proof that he can come back from his injury and play at that level again. Also, if Boldin would holdout for a new contract, I will look forward to the day that he will be gone. He may be good, but he's not bigger than the team. I would offer him a very fair extension after he has proven he has recovered from his injury. If he refuses then trade him or make him sit for the remainder of his contract.


I also don't understand the point about the cap issues under this scenario. Assuming they both get the same contracts regardless of when Boldin is signed, then the cap hit will be equal in both situations. Whether it be the third year of Boldin's new contract or the first year, the cap hit from the signing bonus would be the same, wouldn't it? I guess I just don't know what the problem would be.

 

[Russ Smith]

I also don't understand the point about the cap issues under this scenario. Assuming they both get the same contracts regardless of when Boldin is signed, then the cap hit will be equal in both situations. Whether it be the third year of Boldin's new contract or the first year, the cap hit from the signing bonus would be the same, wouldn't it? I guess I just don't know what the problem would be.

If I understand the question correctly you're asking why an extension and a brand new deal would be different?

Basically a brand new deal would give Quan a bigger signing bonus and more guaranteed money in theory. Sure the Cards COULD just extend his deal and give him a fat new bonus, but that's typically not done with extensions you typically get a much smaller bonus and the salary is jacked up.

There's no question Quan is looking for security, he wants up front money, he's seen the realities of the NFL, and he wants to get as much as he can right now.

 

[MadCardDisease]

It is a terrible idea to pay him for what he did in his rookie season without proof that he can come back from his injury and play at that level again.

Boldin did come back half way through last season. In 9 games he had over 600 yards and he had Two 100 yard games. This after just coming off of a knee injury and surgery only a few months before. Now lets compare that to Fitzgerald who played in every game and never had a 100 yard game. Not to mention that in 16 games Fitz only totaled about 100 yards more than Boldin did in 9 games.

Losing Boldin would be a disaster IMO. Let's not forget how many people nearly jumped off cliffs when Boldin hurt his knee last year.

 

[Pariah]

HERE HERE
Can't stand TO, and now we get TOjr.

Gimme a break. Q is so far from TO it's not even funny.

So the man wants to get paid, so what? He's missed an OTA. Big deal. He keeps his mouth shut and by all accounts is a stand-up guy.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Gimme a break. Q is so far from TO it's not even funny.

So the man wants to get paid, so what? He's missed an OTA. Big deal. He keeps his mouth shut and by all accounts is a stand-up guy.

Seriously. How someone can compare Boldin to TO is just crazy. TO is all about TO. Boldin is the ultimate team player. While at FSU he played where ever the coaches needed. He was devistated with his injury last year because he felt it hurt the team. I can't believe the craziness of some peoples posts!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Boldin did come back half way through last season. In 9 games he had over 600 yards and he had Two 100 yard games. This after just coming off of a knee injury and surgery only a few months before. Now lets compare that to Fitzgerald who played in every game and never had a 100 yard game. Not to mention that in 16 games Fitz only totaled about 100 yards more than Boldin did in 9 games.

Losing Boldin would be a disaster IMO. Let's not forget how many people nearly jumped off cliffs when Boldin hurt his knee last year.

1 - Boldin played in 10 games last year

2 - Boldin was 160 yards behind Fitz (who wasn't healthy all year playing through an ankle sprain that never got the chance to fully heal)

3 - 3 of our highest scoring game sof the season came WITHOUT Boldin.

4 - Fitz had 8 TDs to Boldin's 1

5 - Fitz had 7 plays of 30 or more - Boldin had 2

6 - Fitz had a 13.4 yard per average versus Boldin's 11.1

Fitz was a rookie, on a bum ankle, with a horrendous QB throwing at him with a second year guy BJ who was an average reciever next to him versus Boldin
who had a below average QB, with ABSOLUTELY ZERO OTHER OPTIONS to throw to his first year (and for all his stats - not one lead to a win).

That's more of an accurate description.

The team could still win 9 games without Boldin - but they DO have a MUCH BETTER chance to be scary with him.

Either way - I'm confident a deal will get done or we'll be better off without it.

 

[Slacker]

I think we have lost site of our true anger. He is holding out. That is what I am pissed about anyway.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Fitz was a rookie, on a bum ankle, with a horrendous QB throwing at him with a second year guy BJ who was an average reciever next to him versus Boldin
who had a below average QB, with ABSOLUTELY ZERO OTHER OPTIONS to throw to his first year (and for all his stats - not one lead to a win).

QFE! This is a great point, many a time I saw Fitz open streaking down the sidelnes and BubbaCown opted for the dump pass or the full steam charge. Fitz is poised to have a big year with an upgrade at QB.

I honestly believ that if BubbaCown was the starting QB in 03 Bolden would have had 50% of the output he did. And I am no fan of Blake.

 

[MadCardDisease]

1 - Boldin played in 10 games last year.

Boldin's first start came week 8 against Buffalo. That is 9 games.

3 - 3 of our highest scoring game sof the season came WITHOUT Boldin.

SF, NO and Seattle. Real big Defensive battles!

5 - Fitz had 7 plays of 30 or more - Boldin had 2

Boldin had the Cards’ three longest plays from scrimmage in 2003, all touchdowns (71, 60, and 54 yards), and eight of the top 10.

Fitz was a rookie, on a bum ankle, with a horrendous QB throwing at him with a second year guy BJ who was an average reciever next to him versus Boldin
who had a below average QB, with ABSOLUTELY ZERO OTHER OPTIONS to throw to his first year (and for all his stats - not one lead to a win).

As a rookie Boldin had Mac as a head coach and Sullivan as an OC. Beat that!

 

[Russ Smith]

QFE! This is a great point, many a time I saw Fitz open streaking down the sidelnes and BubbaCown opted for the dump pass or the full steam charge. Fitz is poised to have a big year with an upgrade at QB.

I honestly believ that if BubbaCown was the starting QB in 03 Bolden would have had 50% of the output he did. And I am no fan of Blake.

So was Boldin playing with a different QB than Fitz last year when in the SAME 10 games together he caught 24 more passes than Fitz?

McCown stunk, Boldin might have caught a similar number of passes but not for the same yardage, Josh can't hit guys in stride and even in Quan's rookie year his YPC number fell drastically when Josh started at the end of the year.

I really hope Fitz' ankle was bothering him last year, he's very good but I really hope he's quicker and faster than we saw last year.

Again, without Quan to catch pass after pass and help move the chains, Fitz had only 2 TD's in 6 games last year, he's extremely effective from about the 25 yard line on in, but he had a very tough time getting the team there without Boldin's help.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Boldin's first start came week 8 against Buffalo. That is 9 games.


SF, NO and Seattle. Real big Defensive battles!


Boldin had the Cards’ three longest plays from scrimmage in 2003, all touchdowns (71, 60, and 54 yards), and eight of the top 10.



As a rookie Boldin had Mac as a head coach and Sullivan as an OC. Beat that!

1- Boldin's first game came in week 8 against Buffalo - but it was only the Cards 7th game of the season - (you forgot the bye week)

2 - scoring 17 points, 10 points, 12 points and 12 points again - against the Giants, Panthers, Detriot and Tampa - real defensive battles there. Only other high scores were against - you guessed it - SF and the Lambs.

3. You're talking about 2003 - before the knee injury - I'm talking about last year and how it wasn't a "disaster" without Boldin.

4 - can't really touch that one - but, well - JOSH MCCOWN/SHAWN KING - yes I can!

I just don't think it would be the "disaster" you're claiming it would be. IF the Vikings could get EVEN BETTER without the most feared WR in the game, I think we could avert disaster without Q.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Fitz is still very young, I maybe totally wrong but I see more upside in Fitz than Bolden. Don't get me wrong Bolden is awesome I love him as a player, I just think Fitz has more tools he just needs to grow into the game.


Anyways I would love to keep both but if Bolden insists to be paid like a QB and his absence is in anyway a distraction then I wouldn't blame the Cardinals for looking to see what they can get.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Again, without Quan to catch pass after pass and help move the chains, Fitz had only 2 TD's in 6 games last year, he's extremely effective from about the 25 yard line on in, but he had a very tough time getting the team there without Boldin's help.

3 of our top five games last year scoring were without Boldin. Yes - they were all against bad teams - but so were the other two games with Boldin (SF and the Lambs).

Scoring average without Boldin - 18.7

Scoring avergae WITH Boldin - 17.2

I'd say it was just about even getting to the endzone without Boldin - atcually even a little better (although the loop de loo QB rotation could have something to do with that - although before Josh got yanked - we put up a paltry 17 against a woeful Giants D and only 90 yards passing - so that's debatable.

 

[MadCardDisease]

1- Boldin's first game came in week 8 against Buffalo - but it was only the Cards 7th game of the season - (you forgot the bye week)

your right I forgot the bye week.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Scoring avergae WITH Boldin - 17.2

To be acurate you should include playing musical QB's with Boldin's scoring average.

 

[Russ Smith]

Fitz is still very young, I maybe totally wrong but I see more upside in Fitz than Bolden. Don't get me wrong Bolden is awesome I love him as a player, I just think Fitz has more tools he just needs to grow into the game.


Anyways I would love to keep both but if Bolden insists to be paid like a QB and his absence is in anyway a distraction then I wouldn't blame the Cardinals for looking to see what they can get.

I just don't see the distinction here. Fitz is about 2 1/2 years younger than Boldin. Boldin has spent time at both QB and WR since HS, Fitz meanwhile was raised around teh game (Vikings ballboy) and has been essentially raised to be a WR since he was about 12 years old. Fitz is the guy who's supposed to come in ready from day 1, not Boldin.

As for the paid like a QB, that's Fitz, not Boldin. I think we need to wait until we have a more reliable source for Boldin's demands than Gambo. When Gambo says anything bad about the Cards this whole board rips him to shreds, I think it's fairly unlikely he got the scoop on Quan's contract demands.