Why Suns fans are always saying that Spurs players are floppers ?

[az1965]

Spurs are not floppers. Ginobili is. And he may not be leading in flopping but he does it in awkward ways that may injure other players.

 

[Darth Llama]

This is one thing that's a real shame on this forum. Nikko wasn't being rude, he asked a legit question and posted some stats and a couple people just attack him and give him the usual attitude that people on this forum get if they do anything but fall all over the Suns. Luckily most people were civil, but some of you need to learn how to have a civil conversation or have your keyboards taken away.

Doesn't anyone else find it interesting that the Suns rank that high in how many fouls they get, but still say they don't get the benefit of any calls? The Spurs and the Lakers allegedly get "all the calls" but aren't even in the top 10 for fouls drawn? I have to admit, I was in the camp that thought the Spurs flopped on every play, but those stats show that either that's not true, or they are flopping and not getting it called their way. The entire Spurs team doesn't play that way, only certain few. Manu is the first one that comes to mind, I do see him Flop a lot, but as mentioned before, every team does it to some extent. If they flop that much, how are they not up there in fouls drawn? How is Phoenix so high up there when they don't get any calls and all the refs hate them? Pretty interesting if you take the time to think about it.

 

[PetryJr]

Yes. Flopping comes from Football (soccer) but its not really a Euro thing. It came to Europe with all the S-American players that came to play to Europe. And by the way - Flopping in Football is ILLEGAL! You get a yellow card for flopping in Football !

True, and Argentinean soccer players are the "best" at it. Remember, both Ginobili and Oberto are from Argentina.

 

[95pro]

This is one thing that's a real shame on this forum. Nikko wasn't being rude, he asked a legit question and posted some stats and a couple people just attack him and give him the usual attitude that people on this forum get if they do anything but fall all over the Suns. Luckily most people were civil, but some of you need to learn how to have a civil conversation or have your keyboards taken away.

Doesn't anyone else find it interesting that the Suns rank that high in how many fouls they get, but still say they don't get the benefit of any calls? The Spurs and the Lakers allegedly get "all the calls" but aren't even in the top 10 for fouls drawn? I have to admit, I was in the camp that thought the Spurs flopped on every play, but those stats show that either that's not true, or they are flopping and not getting it called their way. The entire Spurs team doesn't play that way, only certain few. Manu is the first one that comes to mind, I do see him Flop a lot, but as mentioned before, every team does it to some extent. If they flop that much, how are they not up there in fouls drawn? How is Phoenix so high up there when they don't get any calls and all the refs hate them? Pretty interesting if you take the time to think about it.

dood. this is a forum. we are on the internet.
no matter where you go, on an internet forum, there's going to be bashing/flaming.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Simply......

Both teams flop. Nash has been known to do it. Bell is notorious for it.

Bell has never hurt anyone with his flopping (like Ginobili has several times). That's a major thing over here.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

This is one thing that's a real shame on this forum. Nikko wasn't being rude, he asked a legit question and posted some stats and a couple people just attack him and give him the usual attitude that people on this forum get if they do anything but fall all over the Suns. Luckily most people were civil, but some of you need to learn how to have a civil conversation or have your keyboards taken away.

Absolutely agree

dood. this is a forum. we are on the internet.
no matter where you go, on an internet forum, there's going to be bashing/flaming.

You can do so without insults. I have been trying to drive home this point for a while now

 

[BigRedRage]

why are there so many damn trolls here? go have some spurs talk, dont worry about why we dont like your team.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

This is one thing that's a real shame on this forum. Nikko wasn't being rude, he asked a legit question and posted some stats and a couple people just attack him and give him the usual attitude that people on this forum get if they do anything but fall all over the Suns. Luckily most people were civil, but some of you need to learn how to have a civil conversation or have your keyboards taken away.

Doesn't anyone else find it interesting that the Suns rank that high in how many fouls they get, but still say they don't get the benefit of any calls? The Spurs and the Lakers allegedly get "all the calls" but aren't even in the top 10 for fouls drawn? I have to admit, I was in the camp that thought the Spurs flopped on every play, but those stats show that either that's not true, or they are flopping and not getting it called their way. The entire Spurs team doesn't play that way, only certain few. Manu is the first one that comes to mind, I do see him Flop a lot, but as mentioned before, every team does it to some extent. If they flop that much, how are they not up there in fouls drawn? How is Phoenix so high up there when they don't get any calls and all the refs hate them? Pretty interesting if you take the time to think about it.

But you also have to understand the numbers, not just take the numbers at face value, IMO. In 2004-2007, the Suns were a small (smaller than now), fast team. They got teams playing fast who weren't used to it. If you were watching the games, it was easy to see that they weren't used to it. They got excited, starting running, jacking up quick shots, etc. It was very easy for the Suns to pick up charges on opponents. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Now, not so much. I bet if you looked at current stats (I couldn't find them, perhaps they are not compiled yet?) that the picture would not be the same - perhaps middle of the pack. On the other hand, Phoenix is ALWAYS near the bottom of the FTA stats (22nd out of 30 at the moment - increased since the arrival of Shaq. But SA is even fewer at 27th, so if they flop so much they aren't getting any benefit from it). Wonder why, if the team flops so much in order to draw fouls? Amare never gets calls his way for drawing a charge (doesn't even attempt to), so on one of the worst FTA team the player with the most FTA does not get there by way of any flopping. I think that just looking at the number of offensive fouls drawn, even from years past, is not the "flopping picture" you make it out to be. Just my opinion.

Also, that number is for offensive fouls drawn - not charges drawn. Illegal screens, hooking, and other offensive fouls are in there as well...

 

[Darth Llama]

dood. this is a forum. we are on the internet.
no matter where you go, on an internet forum, there's going to be bashing/flaming.

Yeah, I understand that man, really I do. I know that anytime people are given a medium to say anything while safely hidden behind their computer screen, some are going to abuse it. Still, those of us that would rather have a site for civil discourse and exchange of ideas can do our part to see those people don't become the majority. That's all I'm saying.

As long as you respect the Suns and don't come here to just bash and hate on them, it shouldn't be a problem. I don't think the intent of this thread was being "trollish." He's asking for an exchange of ideas, doesn't seem that bad to me.

 

[Darth Llama]

But you also have to understand the numbers, not just take the numbers at face value, IMO. In 2004-2007, the Suns were a small (smaller than now), fast team. They got teams playing fast who weren't used to it. If you were watching the games, it was easy to see that they weren't used to it. They got excited, starting running, jacking up quick shots, etc. It was very easy for the Suns to pick up charges on opponents. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Now, not so much. I bet if you looked at current stats (I couldn't find them, perhaps they are not compiled yet?) that the picture would not be the same - perhaps middle of the pack. On the other hand, Phoenix is ALWAYS near the bottom of the FTA stats. Wonder why, if the team flops so much in order to draw fouls? Amare never gets calls his way for drawing a charge (doesn't even attempt to), so on the worst FTA team the player with the most FTA does not get there by way of any flopping. I think that just looking at the number of offensive fouls drawn, even from years past, is not the "flopping picture" you make it out to be. Just my opinion.

Some very good points indeed. You have a very good point about the Suns playing style. It's a very reasonable hypothesis that a slower paced half court team would draw less fouls then a full throttle fast break team like the Suns. A good number of those fouls are likely intensional fouls designed to stop a fast break opportunity. You have presented a side of the argument I had not previously considered.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

But you also have to understand the numbers, not just take the numbers at face value, IMO. In 2004-2007, the Suns were a small (smaller than now), fast team. They got teams playing fast who weren't used to it. If you were watching the games, it was easy to see that they weren't used to it. They got excited, starting running, jacking up quick shots, etc. It was very easy for the Suns to pick up charges on opponents. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Now, not so much. I bet if you looked at current stats (I couldn't find them, perhaps they are not compiled yet?) that the picture would not be the same - perhaps middle of the pack. On the other hand, Phoenix is ALWAYS near the bottom of the FTA stats. Wonder why, if the team flops so much in order to draw fouls? Amare never gets calls his way for drawing a charge (doesn't even attempt to), so on the worst FTA team the player with the most FTA does not get there by way of any flopping. I think that just looking at the number of offensive fouls drawn, even from years past, is not the "flopping picture" you make it out to be. Just my opinion.

Yeah, I understand that man, really I do. I know that anytime people are given a medium to say anything while safely hidden behind their computer screen, some are going to abuse it. Still, those of us that would rather have a site for civil discourse and exchange of ideas can do our part to see those people don't become the majority. That's all I'm saying.

As long as you respect the Suns and don't come here to just bash and hate on them, it shouldn't be a problem. I don't think the intent of this thread was being "trollish." He's asking for an exchange of ideas, doesn't seem that bad to me.

I see both of your points. armbang came over in the same tone early when he registed, and became borderline troll. We should exercise caution, but not automatically assume people are trolls too. There are good ones, even Spurs fan. Gregg Popovich is one poster for example...

 

[nowagimp]

Nikko, I apologize for your treatment here. You have been nothing but civil and were not treated appropriately. Flopping in the NBA is a taught defensive skill that is not particularly associated with any team.

 

[da_suns_fan]

LMAO at this thread....Ginobili brought new meaning to the word "flop". When you hear that word, who do you immediately think of? Its not just Suns fans, everyone hates Manu's ridiculous over-the-top flopping.

 

[da_suns_fan]

btw - don't apologize to Nikko. You have to be completely clueless if you don't think he came looking for trouble.

He not only defends his team against flopping but accuses the Suns of being the biggest floppers.

Go back to Spurstalk nikko.

 

[atikiN]

If anything, I'm surprised how tolerant this forum is of other team fans that come here starting threads questioning the integrity of claims made by Suns players and fans. I've been on many respectful forums where a post like this constitutes a warning. From what I understand, this is a forum for Suns fans, not a general NBA forum. Threads like this will result in only one outcome, and that’s a pointless back and forth between the two sides.

Ah on btw someone should fix the title:
Why NBA fans are always saying that Spurs players are floppers ?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

LMAO at this thread....Ginobili brought new meaning to the word "flop". When you hear that word, who do you immediately think of? Its not just Suns fans, everyone hates Manu's ridiculous over-the-top flopping.

No, IMO Vlade Divac brought a whole new meaning to the word flop. Ginobili has perfected it.

btw - don't apologize to Nikko. You have to be completely clueless if you don't think he came looking for trouble.

He not only defends his team against flopping but accuses the Suns of being the biggest floppers.

Go back to Spurstalk nikko.

He has a good point. The Suns are another flopping team. Do you not see Bell flopping all over the place?

 

[ambchang_]

I see both of your points. armbang came over in the same tone early when he registed, and became borderline troll. We should exercise caution, but not automatically assume people are trolls too. There are good ones, even Spurs fan. Gregg Popovich is one poster for example...

Which is exactly my problem, what have I ever done that was borderline troll? Defending Bowen and Horry?

 

[atikiN]

Which is exactly my problem, what have I ever done that was borderline troll? Defending Bowen and Horry?

Imagine that... a Suns forum is NOT the place to defend Spurs players.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Which is exactly my problem, what have I ever done that was borderline troll? Defending Bowen and Horry?

Its not what you say, per se. It is your tone. You try to articulate your thoughts most times, I'll definitely give you credit for that.

 

[Darth Llama]

Imagine that... a Suns forum is NOT the place to defend Spurs players.

This forum is for discussing all things NBA, not just the Phoenix Suns. There are plenty of threads here that don't pertain to the Suns, many made by Suns fans.

 

[justAndy]

As a Suns fan for 33 years I have no problem agreeing w/ the take that Suns
players flop as much as anybody.
They do NOT do it in a way that injures opposing players - as Ginobili has done. That's my problem with the issue - indeed, the Euro and S American players make an opera production out of it - totally effeminate soccer crap that does not belong in the NBA.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

I definitely don't want this place to end up like SpursTalk, where a portion of the fans are ridiculously childish and profane. I don't mind delving into numbers, looking at theories, or even occasionally going at a player or act as long as there is substance to it. We can disagree, but at we can be civil as well. The Suns have their warts that others will point out. Doesn't bother me that much. Yes, Raja flops from time to time on defense. But not on offense - which I believe is what has most people upset with Manu. Of course Manu is not much of a defender IMO, so it stands to reason.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

This forum is for discussing all things NBA, not just the Phoenix Suns. There are plenty of threads here that don't pertain to the Suns, many made by Suns fans.

As a Suns fan for 33 years I have no problem agreeing w/ the take that Suns
players flop as much as anybody.
They do NOT do it in a way that injures opposing players - as Ginobili has done. That's my problem with the issue - indeed, the Euro and S American players make an opera production out of it - totally effeminate soccer crap that does not belong in the NBA.

and too

 

[nikko]

I am not a troll, i just think it's interesting to share opinions with other teams fans.
You know when you watch a game, and you are a fan of one of the two teams, you have a tendency to see only the good things of your team and the bad things of the other.
For example, the refs and foul calls.
For a Spurs/Suns game, Spurs fans only see the bad calls against Spurs and Suns fans only see the bad calls against Suns.

By the way, a lot of Spurs fans think that recently, Tim Duncan whine too much. When he does that, he loses his temper and his game. So, as a Spurs fan, i think the "whining Timmy" is not a good thing for MY team.
So, as Suns fans, you should enjoy the "whining Timmy".

Suns did a pretty good job with Shak, he's a really deadly weapon against us. Even Boris is waking up at the right time !

The 2008 playoffs are going to be an all-out war !
Let the best team win.
Good luck everybody.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I am not a troll, i just think it's interesting to share opinions with other teams fans.
You know when you watch a game, and you are a fan of one of the two teams, you have a tendency to see only the good things of your team and the bad things of the other.
For example, the refs and foul calls.
For a Spurs/Suns game, Spurs fans only see the bad calls against Spurs and Suns fans only see the bad calls against Suns.

By the way, a lot of Spurs fans think that recently, Tim Duncan whine too much. When he does that, he loses his temper and his game. So, as a Spurs fan, i think the "whining Timmy" is not a good thing for MY team.
So, as Suns fans, you should enjoy the "whining Timmy".

Suns did a pretty good job with Shak, he's a really deadly weapon against us. Even Boris is waking up at the right time !

The 2008 playoffs are going to be an all-out war !
Let the best team win.
Good luck everybody.

This year, I think I will watch every playoff game. I haven't done that... well, ever.